Posted on 12/10/2011 9:24:58 AM PST by TBBT
Newt Gingrich declared in an interview that Palestinians are an "invented" people, though his campaign afterward claimed the candidate still supports the establishment of a Palestinian state. The front-running Republican presidential candidate made the comments in an interview with The Jewish Channel. The interview marks some of the toughest language to date any candidate has used to describe the Middle East peace process. It also comes after Gingrich pledged at a forum earlier in the week that if elected, he would name John Bolton -- a hawkish, pro-Israel former U.N. ambassador who served in the George W. Bush administration -- as his secretary of state.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
I understand trebb as I now want a fighter and Newt seems ready to fit the bill and takeover.
“It can be said Americans are an invented people can it not?”
Yes but our melting pot has not only been able to take care of our own but most of the damn world.
Rick Perry mentioned Bolton as his secretary of state a long time ago. Newt’s gonna have to get in line.
I guess anything could be said if one doesn’t mind making a fool of oneself.
I don’t, myself.
Wasn’t Jordan also invented?
While they have zero comprehension of the concept of God's Grace. (See tagline...)
I was referring to the “Palestinians” ~ many of whom are Christian ~
“Actually, we were invented by King Philippe II/III (of Spain). It is an incontrovertible fact.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But before that we see that the development of what is now New Mexico as a modern state began in 1598 ~ the year King Philippe I/II and Queen Elizabeth I died ~ as did the opening up of Nova Scotia. Both places saw "the first Thanksgiving"
An age passed and a new order arose. American's have nothing to be ashamed of in their invention of themselves ~ "one from many".
So if they have a country they will become a people?
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That’s how it works. There wasn’t Americans until there was an America.
The Treaty of London has nothing to do with the establishment of the US. It ended a war between England and Spain. It did NOT settle America, nor did the Spanish - apart from the deep south coastal areas & in a very minor and unimportant way my own southwest.
And Spain did NOTHING but suck wealth FROM any place they colonized.
King Philippe I/II (formerly King of Spain AND King of England ~ he was Bloody Mary's husband) got into an eternal war with the English and with Protestantism in general.
He died in 1598. Until he died Spain effectively prevented EVERYONE ELSE from having more than a passing interest in the Americas.
After he died King Philippe II/III, his son, decided to put an end to the conflicts and get on with the development of the Americas (and though a fair share of the credit probably goes to his counselors who also worked for his relatives throughout the so-called Hapsburg Empire, we have to assign the primary credit to Philippe II/III.
I know you don't want to do that but that's because you have no interest in history.
So, by 1604 Philippe II/III had created what was called The Treaty of London (1604) and literally crammed it down the throat of all the powers who wanted a piece of America.
In doing that he gave Europe 20 years of peace ~ an unusual condition for them.
You should read that treaty some day.
Once it was promulgated, and commercial contacts re-established, the French began settling their assigned area, as did Scotland (it's called Nova Scotia these days, but it was also called Acadia back in the day ~ and included what is now hunks of New York, Maine, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia ~ fairly good sized territory which had bounds that'd not yet been surveyed).
A space between the highest peaks of the Eastern Cordillera (the Appalachians) and the Atlantic, between Carolana (later just Florida) in the South, and Nova Scotia in the North was set aside for OTHERS, not specifically England, but not exactly something the English couldn't go to.
There had already been settlements in the region ~ 30 of them to be exact, and only 3 have been studied to any extent.
That territory eventually became the core of the United States 173 years later.
The American people, however, came on the scene quite a bit earlier ~ and they came from throughout Europe, not just England. You can read the Booke of the Livinge and the Deade at any Virginia Room in a main library in any county in the Commonwealth and they are ALL LISTED. For my benefit they list those who were there BEFORE the division of the land ~ and even the Spanish had some records of those others who worked or them or, who were actually titled Spanish noblemen. Many of them stayed on in Virginia after Spain formally withdrew its protection from the territory.
Self government in the borning USA was a vital necessity. The climate was dreadful with recurring hurricanes, brutal winters, floods, tornados ~~~. Only the toughest of the tough, the best of all the best people could make it. And they did.
So, you are telling me America didn't start here not far from where I'm seated? America and its customs and traditions started WITH the Treaty of London 1604. This state has, in fact, a government that counts continuity all the way back to the bill of sale granted to The Virginia Company.
BTW, Spain didn't give England anything at all in that Treaty. And they specifically denied access to the Dutch (with whom they were still at war).
Do not be misled by popular histories.
Care to discuss what the Spanish actually DID in Virginia? How about Arizona? They did have
If we were talking the West Indies, or Florida by itself, you would have a minor point. Very minor, since there is no Spanish influence in the US worth mentioning. They claimed California, but did little to actually settle it. At the time of the Gold Rush, the non-native population of California was a whopping 15,000. By 1854, it was over 300,000.
Want to explain again how Spain made America what it is?
I said the American people CREATED THEMSELVES.
And that event has a starting point. Spain was certainly involved
You seem to be wanting to read something into this that's not there. But if you must know a fair number of my non-Hispanic ancestors were present in what is now the United States On or BEFORE 1598 ~ and they were very influential in what you see here today.
I absolutely despise it when immigrants fresh off the boat want to tell me all about America! Just complain and bicker, and tell us all about it. You don't like it, there are OTHER PLACES YOU CAN GO TO!
You did know his wife was a Beeber (Bebier)~ while your people were cooling their heels in Lower Slobovia the Spanish prepared the primary survey for all of North America and began a number of local surveys in the Gulf (but not Florida in general). A little later (1700s) they definitely surveyed much of the Louisiana Territory. Their markers continue to be found everywhere. They kept POWs from their wars in the Mediterranean at St. Elena in Carolana (now South Carolina).
I have found over 50 towns in the Midwest and Central South that were laid out and settled by Spanish traders and miners BEFORE Jamestown became a reality.
The problem here was the place was immense ~ North America is far larger than South America, plus the plague that had been killing people by the millions in the South had already begun working its way through the North. By 1648 almost all the Eastern indians had died of it ~ most in a single winter. Whites and Africans died from the same diseases. Spain's population simply wasn't sufficient to supply the manpower needed for the purpose of civilizing this continent.
Now, let's see ~ what else did they do ~ well, since the overwhelming majority of the Spaniards in the Northern territories had Galician, Basque and Dutch surnames they were for all practical purpose undifferentiated from Bretons and Welsh or Dutch and French people. They simply stayed on as the ownership and control of territory changed.
i've found numerous examples of individuals with Spanish surnames being the very first to register land claims and purchases the day the government agent arrived in the Old Northwest to open up sales. They were there waiting to become part of the larger picture. If they'd waited around they'd been driven out as squatters or worse ~ been treated like the French in Vincinnes. They had a special exception written into the law but some of their land claims weren't settled with the US government and the state of Indiana until the mid 1800s.
Could be history didn't really notice Spanish settlers because they knew better than to create waves. They simply melted into the broad picture of "a new nation".
No one here prior to 1600 had ANY significant effect on the development of America, other than to note the place existed.
They claimed California too, but they didn’t POPULATE it. Like modern Spaniards, they were all talk and no action.
The fact you haven't studied the question of Spanish occupation of North America prior to 1600 doesn't mean that nothing was happening.
In fact, your failure to note the Iroquois development of a nation state suggests you just haven't read all that much.
Noteworthy is the fact Spain didn't even bother trying to develop California until the late 1700s. That's 200 years later. The argument had been that the climate was terrible and it was too expensive to support a colonial activity overland from the core of Mexico. Turned out the California settlements were supplied mostly from the Philippines.
Regarding folks who "populated" California, there were, of course, the Indians, but more importantly were American traders and trappers ~ who were there BEFORE the Spanish set up the first Mission.
At one point, outside of the Indians, the most numerous category of people in California were Aleutian Islanders (all men, with good jobs, they married local Indians and when their colony was shut down took them with them to Russia).
It turned out California was incredibly difficult to settle and the assignment of land grants didn't help that problem much.
What you need to do is go through the California, Texas, New Mexico, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida records regarding land grants and find a couple owned by your own ancestors. You might be pleasantly surprised that there are a good number of Americans who received landgrants from Spain.
Property transfers were handled a tad differently in the Louisiana Territory (owned by Spain long before they were conquered by Napoleon. He made promises to them regarding taxes, land titles, laws and immigration then broke them all by selling Louisiana to Thomas Jefferson).
I think you need to study upon this stuff.
“I think you need to study upon this stuff. “
I think Spaniards left about as much effect on America as...hmmm...the Indonesians? They claimed a lot, but didn’t achieve anything lasting.
Get over it.
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