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Obama to approve indefinite detention and torture of Americans
Russia Today (Go Vlad Go!) ^

Posted on 12/15/2011 6:23:08 AM PST by kronos77

Less than a month after he threatened to veto terrifying legislation that would cease constitutional rights as we know it, Obama has revoked his warning and plans to authorize a bill allowing indefinite detention and torture of Americans.

After passing in the House of Representatives earlier this year, the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 went before the US Senate last week, where it was met with overwhelming approval. In the days before, the Obama administration issued a policy statement on November 17 saying explicitly that the president would veto the bill, as it would challenge “the president’s critical authorities to collect intelligence incapacitate dangerous terrorists and protect the nation.”

Opposition from the White House seemed all but rampant until RT revealed earlier this week that Senator Carl Levin told lawmakers that the legislation was altered because “the administration asked us to remove the language which says that US citizens and lawful residents would not be subject to this section.”

On Wednesday, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said that those last minute changes yielded legislation that would “not challenge the president’s ability to collect intelligence, incapacitate dangerous terrorists and protect the American people,” and therefore “the president’s senior advisers will not recommend a veto.”

Originally the White House said that the administration objected to matters in the bill that applied to detainees. Under the act, Americans could be arrested and held indefinitely in military-run prisons and tortured without charges ever being brought forth, essentially making Guantanamo Bay a threat for every American citizen.

Under the legislation, a literal police state will be installed over the United States. Republican Congressman Ron Paul said earlier this week that “this should be the biggest news going right now,” as the legislation would allow for “literally legalizing martial law.”

(Excerpt) Read more at rt.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1031; bloodoftyrants; communism; cwii; detaineebill; detention; fascism; fedzilla; govtabuse; lping; news; obama; policestate; possecomitatus; rapeofliberty; russia; tyranny; waronliberty

1 posted on 12/15/2011 6:23:16 AM PST by kronos77
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To: kronos77

he is only signing it so he can go on to Hawaii


2 posted on 12/15/2011 6:24:28 AM PST by SF_Redux (Sarah stands for accountablility and personal responsiblity, democrats can't live with that)
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To: kronos77

You’re using Russia Today as an unbiased news source about the Americas? Russia Today is Radio Moscow with pictures.


3 posted on 12/15/2011 6:26:24 AM PST by GAB-1955 (I write books, serve my country, love my wife and daughter, and believe in the Resurrection.)
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To: kronos77

Not surprising that he broke his promise. Also not surprising that some Republicans went along with this. It’s still not too late to save this country though, if we can get a conservative in the White House and boot out some of the CINOs in Congress.


4 posted on 12/15/2011 6:26:24 AM PST by af_vet_rr
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To: kronos77

guess they are now trying to use those concentration camps they’ve been speaking of in all the conspiracy theories, and I guess, maybe they are not conspiracy theories then. The conspiracy theory is our federal state and local government.


5 posted on 12/15/2011 6:26:35 AM PST by television is just wrong
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To: kronos77

What stops him from detaining Gingrich, Romney, and Palin? They are a threat to his presidency, and thus(in his mind), a threat to America.


6 posted on 12/15/2011 6:26:45 AM PST by deadrock
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To: SF_Redux

This is not a joke. It’s pretty serious and scary.


7 posted on 12/15/2011 6:28:36 AM PST by Piranha (If you seek perfection you will end up with Democrats.)
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To: DEADROCK

“What stops him from detaining Gingrich, Romney, and Palin? They are a threat to his presidency, and thus(in his mind), a threat to America.”

He hasn’t signed the bill yet. Once he signs it, all bets are off....red


8 posted on 12/15/2011 6:29:56 AM PST by rednek ("Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.")
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To: television is just wrong

This legislation is aimed at all of us, not just Islamists of one sort or another. This will be used as a political tool just like the gulags of the “former” Soviet Union.


9 posted on 12/15/2011 6:30:31 AM PST by izzatzo ( Anybody but Obamney and Huntsman--Bachmann/???, 2012.)
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To: GAB-1955

on drudge.com as well.


10 posted on 12/15/2011 6:30:56 AM PST by television is just wrong
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To: Piranha

Without a doubt serious. So gitmo detainees are treated better than citizens.. Why isn’t everyone outraged?


11 posted on 12/15/2011 6:34:05 AM PST by momincombatboots (Back to West by G-d Virginia.)
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To: kronos77

The problem, as always with this regime, is they lie about everything,
So who knows what the truth is?


12 posted on 12/15/2011 6:34:31 AM PST by muddler (Chaos is coming.)
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To: kronos77

I have a neighbor who is quite the “conspiracy” believer. For years now, he has been telling me that the government will pass some law and there will be “indoctrination” camps of sorts. I never gave his theory a second thought. I am now.


13 posted on 12/15/2011 6:35:56 AM PST by momtothree
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To: kronos77
Photobucket
14 posted on 12/15/2011 6:36:05 AM PST by baddog 219
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To: GAB-1955

This story has been on other sides besides RT, please don’t tell me your one of those it can’t happen here people are you?


15 posted on 12/15/2011 6:37:35 AM PST by eak3
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To: GAB-1955

We have a small number of FReepers who suck this “stuff” (Russian state-owned media) up. Later, you see them complaining about MSNBC.


16 posted on 12/15/2011 6:38:07 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: kronos77

Where’s the bloodcurdling screams of agony from the ACLU? Amnesty International?

Cue the crickets.


17 posted on 12/15/2011 6:38:24 AM PST by reagan_fanatic (A communist is just a liberal in a hurry)
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To: kronos77

Well I’m sure Newt doesn’t have a problem with this, since he stated Presidents can ignore the Constitution in time of “war”

Ofcourse Zero thinks he is at war with the American People.


18 posted on 12/15/2011 6:38:40 AM PST by marty60
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To: izzatzo

Dachau started as a hard-core criminals detaining facility.
Trouble was later re-defining definition of “Criminals”.

At first, murderers, rapists, pedophiles were detained at Dachau. Than they said that being against regime was crime for itself, than it became crime to not be a supporter of regime, and than just any people that regime disliked became “criminals”...


19 posted on 12/15/2011 6:38:55 AM PST by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: kronos77

I just wonder what the leftists would have said if Bush had tried to do this....


20 posted on 12/15/2011 6:39:48 AM PST by Arrowhead1952 (Dear God, thanks for the rain, but please let it rain more in Texas. Amen.)
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To: marty60

amen


21 posted on 12/15/2011 6:40:27 AM PST by surfer (To err is human, to really foul things up takes a Democrat, don't expect the GOP to have the answer!)
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To: GAB-1955

I’d trust Russia Today, more than CNN, MSNBC or the New York Times.


22 posted on 12/15/2011 6:41:04 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Proving only that you don’t follow it that closely.


23 posted on 12/15/2011 6:42:32 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: marty60

Zero is at war with the American people.


24 posted on 12/15/2011 6:44:07 AM PST by muddler (Chaos is coming.)
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To: kronos77

Those evolutionary steps await us, it will not take long.


25 posted on 12/15/2011 6:45:31 AM PST by izzatzo ( Anybody but Obamney and Huntsman--Bachmann/???, 2012.)
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To: Piranha
This is not a joke. It’s pretty serious and scary.

The bill is available in pdf on Thomas. I'm sure you've read it. Could you copy and paste for me the sections in their entirety('section' has a meaning') that have your heart all aflutter?

26 posted on 12/15/2011 6:47:19 AM PST by Stentor ("All cults of personality start out as high drama and end up as low comedy.")
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To: kronos77

I think the bit about torture is a little overstated but what is not being commented on is that the POTUS with the Military can say who is arrested and who is not. This is the definition of a police state. Obama already has pretty solid control of the officer corp of the military. This law gives him control of who should not be detained.

So now the military can, with these overly broad definitions, go in an arrest someone who just may coinicently be a political opponent of Obama. Maybe a FReeper, because they have ammuniion or weapons or food or a diferent opinion or . . . and it will be up to the POTUS whether they go to GITMO or not.

Does this not cause some of us just a little concern???


27 posted on 12/15/2011 6:48:30 AM PST by dirtymac (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country., Really! NOW!!!)
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To: All

Per Drudge:

COMING SOON: AMERICANS IN GITMO...

Bill allows indefinite detention without trial...

Obama ‘demanded law apply to U.S. citizens’...

Even Al Jazeera asks: ‘How did we get here?’

http://drudgereport.com/

Is this article’s conclusion correct or not?


28 posted on 12/15/2011 6:50:25 AM PST by SuzyQue (Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.)
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To: kronos77

Did you know that there’s 50 ChiComm divisions hiding in the sagebrush in Texas? Yes, indeed.

And when obuma gives the word, they will jump out and round up all Americans, starting with the 1st Marine Division and 101st Airborne. Shouldn’t be a problem at all.


29 posted on 12/15/2011 7:00:48 AM PST by sergeantdave
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To: kronos77

If I recall correctly, weren’t the Tea Party rally’s referred to a bunch if terrorist? Just saying.


30 posted on 12/15/2011 7:02:04 AM PST by woodenickel
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To: eak3

Cite them.

I don’t like the law, but I want good information.


31 posted on 12/15/2011 7:11:10 AM PST by GAB-1955 (I write books, serve my country, love my wife and daughter, and believe in the Resurrection.)
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To: GAB-1955

except that Leftist American agitators like Thom Hartmann did not have their own shows on Radio Moscow


32 posted on 12/15/2011 7:14:00 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: woodenickel

Obama the devout Marxist has just been given dictatorial power over every US citizen. How is this not a declaration of war against the American people?


33 posted on 12/15/2011 7:17:23 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (Government must be taken back from the thieves who have stolen it.)
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To: television is just wrong

You got that right. Anybody that thinks the GOP isn’t in on this is not paying attention. 286 votes in the House of Rep for this bill yesterday. Thats a lot of republicans. We are all Al Queda now. If the food nazi’s start coming around and you have too much food are they going to take you away to indefinite detention for unamerican terrorist activity? It could get that insane real quick.

For anybody who thinks this will not happen just remember this country has rounded people up before and put them in internment camps. Ask the Japenese how easy it was to round them up.

Every republican who voted for that bill should be voted out of office.


34 posted on 12/15/2011 7:26:52 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: kronos77

“tortured without charges ever being brought forth, essentially making Guantanamo Bay a threat for every American citizen.”

How many times does this ludicrous charge about torture have to be laid to rest?


35 posted on 12/15/2011 7:32:03 AM PST by COgamer
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To: sergeantdave

I don’t know if you are kidding or not but my fiancee’ is from out west and he was in a gas station in WA and some military pulled up and it was a bunch of Europeans in uniforms. They were training at a nearby US base. My fiancee’ told them they were in the US illegally that our constitution forbids foreign troops on US soil. They started up about how they were just here training etc. He looked on one guy and said “If anything starts up you will be the first one I kill”. Then a bunch of other guys who were standing around joined in. Those troops hit the road real quick lickity split back to the base. I don’t think a bunch of Chicoms will last long duking it out with Texas boys and I sure invite them on down to GA where they will get a real warm welcome.


36 posted on 12/15/2011 7:36:17 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
Speaking of which, where is Vladimir Posner?
37 posted on 12/15/2011 7:46:03 AM PST by GAB-1955 (I write books, serve my country, love my wife and daughter, and believe in the Resurrection.)
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To: muddler; All

All can read for themselves. It is confusing, but grants the power to indefinitely detain, but then says that the mandatory provisions requiring detention are not applicable to US Citizens, which begs the question...they are not required, but they still have that option. It builds upon and makes reference to existing laws. It could easily be re-written to exclude US Citizens from the denial of their Constitutional rights.

SEC. 1031. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Congress affirms that the authority of the President to use all necessary and appropriate force pursuant to the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107–40) includes the authority for the Armed Forces of the United States to detain covered persons (as defined in subsection (b)) pending disposition under the law of war.

(b) COVERED PERSONS.—A covered person under this section is any person as follows:
(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored those responsible for those attacks.
(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.

(c) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR.—The disposition of a person under the law of war as described in subsection (a) may include the following:
(1) Detention under the law of war without trial until the end of the hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force.
(2) Trial under chapter 47A of title 10, United States Code (as amended by the Military Commissions Act of 2009 (title XVIII of Public Law 111–84)).
(3) Transfer for trial by an alternative court or competent tribunal having lawful jurisdiction.
(4) Transfer to the custody or control of the person’s country of origin, any other foreign country, or any other foreign entity.
(d) CONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this section is intended to limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force.
(e) REQUIREMENT FOR BRIEFINGS OF CONGRESS.— The Secretary of Defense shall regularly brief Congress regarding the application of the authority described in this section, including the organizations, entities, and individuals considered to be ‘‘covered persons’’ for purposes of subsection (b)(2).
SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.
(a) CUSTODY PENDING DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in paragraph (4), the Armed Forces of the United States shall hold a person described in paragraph (2) who is captured in the course of hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107–40) in military custody pending disposition under the law of war.
(2) COVERED PERSONS.—The requirement in paragraph (1) shall apply to any person whose detention is authorized under section 1031 who is determined—
(A) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an associated force that acts in coordination with or pursuant to the direction of al-Qaeda; and

(B) to have participated in the course of planning or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States or its coalition partners.
on DSK6SPTVN1PROD with BILLS
(3) DISPOSITION UNDER LAW OF WAR.—For purposes of this subsection, the disposition of a person under the law of war has the meaning given in section 1031(c), except that no transfer otherwise described in paragraph (4) of that section shall be made unless consistent with the requirements of section 1033.
(4) WAIVER FOR NATIONAL SECURITY.—The Secretary of Defense may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence, waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States.
(b) APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—
(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.
(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.
(c) IMPLEMENTATION PROCEDURES.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the President shall issue, and submit to Congress, procedures for implementing this section.
(2) ELEMENTS.—The procedures for implementing this section shall include, but not be limited to, procedures as follows:
(A) Procedures designating the persons authorized to make determinations under subsection (a)(2) and the process by which such determinations are to be made.
(B) Procedures providing that the requirement for military custody under subsection (a)(1) does not require the interruption of ongoing surveillance or intelligence gathering with regard to persons not already in the custody or control of the United States.
(C) Procedures providing that a determination under subsection (a)(2) is not required to be implemented until after the conclusion of an interrogation session which is ongoing at the time the determination is made and does not require the interruption of any such ongoing session.
(D) Procedures providing that the requirement for military custody under subsection (a)(1) does not apply when intelligence, law enforcement, or other government officials of the United States are granted access to an individual who remains in the custody of a third country.
(E) Procedures providing that a certification of national security interests under subsection (a)(4) may be granted for the purpose of transferring a covered person from a third country if such a transfer is in the interest of the United States and could not otherwise be accomplished.
(d) EFFECTIVE DATE.—This section shall take effect on the date that is 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply with respect to persons described in subsection (a)(2) who are taken into the custody or brought under the control of the United States on or after that effective date.


38 posted on 12/15/2011 7:48:02 AM PST by LachlanMinnesota (Which are you? A producer, a looter, or a moocher of wealth?)
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To: Louis Foxwell

Biden says the tea party are terrorists.

Rep. Mike Doyle, D-PA says the tea party are terrorists.

Rep. Emanuel Cleaver (D-Mo.) called tea partiers arsonists.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0811/60421.html

Bill Press agrees with it.

http://www.billpressshow.com/2011/08/03/biden-right-about-tea-party-terrorists/

William Yeomans says that tea partiers are full blown terrorist.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0711/60202.html

It is not a far stretch to say that with this law, anyone in authority can define the opposition to be a terrorist, and hold them in detention, without the right to contest the original determination or to have a trial.

My daughter has been to Rwanda to study in detail the genocide there, including the political landscape that existed before the genocide occurred.

The other day she said, Dad, the language people are using to define the opposition and to dehumanize them is the same language that was used before the genocide occurred. People were first made to disrespect the opposition, then made to see them as unworthy, then made to seem as not worthy of human kindness and understanding, then made to be a pox to be purged for the betterment of society.

We are not so far away from this as we might think.

Yet Gabrielle Giffords was shot because of this language according to the left, but the left’s invective leads only to justice.


39 posted on 12/15/2011 8:14:04 AM PST by LachlanMinnesota (Which are you? A producer, a looter, or a moocher of wealth?)
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To: kronos77

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7mwP5Di5NE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eJrzhvfCw8&feature=watch_response


40 posted on 12/15/2011 8:14:13 AM PST by Arrowhead1952 (Dear God, thanks for the rain, but please let it rain more in Texas. Amen.)
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To: sergeantdave
Did you know that there’s 50 ChiComm divisions hiding in the sagebrush in Texas? Yes, indeed.

Not sure if you're being flippant or not. There is something going on about 60 miles south of the Texas/Mexico border. Truck drivers have been "escorted" from the U.S. side to that location with mirrors removed, all electronics confiscated. Their vehicles were unloaded, then they were escorted back to the U.S. side. Why the clandestine behavior? The driver reporting this expressed a pretty firm conviction that he was making a big delivery to a military installation.

41 posted on 12/15/2011 8:35:34 AM PST by Myrddin
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To: LachlanMinnesota

What the law states means nothing.

baraq and his gang make up the rules as they go along.

The intent for this law is to be able to detain terrorists, but American citizens who disagree with this gang have already been labeled as terrorists.


42 posted on 12/15/2011 9:07:47 AM PST by Texas resident (Hunkered Down)
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To: kronos77

With the definition of “terrorist” soon to include anyone who so much as questions the government status quo, even as real terrorists move freely across the Mexican and Canadian borders, Obama has taken a giant step toward dictatorship.

In a Better World, this would never survive Supreme Court scutiny; however, at this point in time, can we really put our faith in the Founders’ venerated doctrine of checks and balances?

America is sinking fast.


43 posted on 12/15/2011 9:52:59 AM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: momtothree

I remember reading years ago they were going to crash the dollar. At the time it seemed crazy.


44 posted on 12/15/2011 9:59:43 AM PST by opentalk
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To: izzatzo
It is hard to understand why the department of Homeland security allows the Occupy people to shut down ports.

The tea party protests were required to pull permits for a few hours of gathering.

45 posted on 12/15/2011 10:06:58 AM PST by opentalk
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Well....
If you got too much food, govt. will take that to give to poor jobless immigrants.
And if you got too much land, govt. will take that to give to the immigrants,
and, realy, do you need two cars? Sure not! Govt. will take one to give to the poor. And quite frankly, your house is just too big for one family....


46 posted on 12/15/2011 11:38:14 AM PST by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: Arrowhead1952

Sad and tragic... its like...1936....


47 posted on 12/15/2011 11:43:08 AM PST by kronos77 (Kosovo is Serbian Jerusalem. No Serbia without Kosovo.)
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To: kronos77

And with the stroke of a pen, we are all now one accusation away from a damp cell, denied legal representation, never to be heard from again.


48 posted on 12/15/2011 11:59:56 AM PST by SpaceBar
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To: kronos77

Yep


49 posted on 12/15/2011 12:29:22 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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