Bless the Beasts (Should conservatives care about animal suffering?)

National Review ^ | 12/16/2011 | Claire Berlinski

[little jeremiah]

I agree with everything you said, and above, too.

[little jeremiah]

If a person views another human, or an animal, as merely a “living” machine and no soul, then it’s easy to view them as a “thing” whose existence is only for my utilization.

[Fawn]

You're not comprehending what I said. You say that there is 'no proof, only superstitions' ...your words. So, I'm saying there is 'no proof' of heaven either...and so I am asking you ---that if there is proof of Heaven--- to show it to me.
I BELIEVE through FAITH that there is a Heaven and my furrkids will be there along with me....but I cannot prove it to you.

[Fawn]

I’ve seen enough responses on this board to know that there IS all too often that political divide when it comes to animals. It’s as if those whose main area of interest is abortion or child abuse or something along those lines cannot handle threads dedicated exclusively to animals and believe that since humans are THE most important thing in their eyes that the flip side is that animals don’t matter at all. They are constantly berating those who love animals that they should NOT care about them to the extent they do — yet clearly they have issues when others respond in kind to them and what they believe to be important. It’s fatiguing at best.

I agree 100%. They do not have full hearts. Jesus loves both animals and people and would want both treated with the same kind heart.

[nixonsnose]

What happened?

[JLLH]

You are so right! Nowhere in the Bible does God ever create a living “automaton”. The most simple experience watching and living with animals proves this out. They are no more robots without feelings or thoughts and understanding than the Angels or humanity. God created all. He doesn’t “do” robots.

[chuckles]

If you believe through faith that there is a Heaven, then why would you doubt the King Of Heaven? His Word tells you they won’t be there. Either you believe the Bible or you are making up your own denomination.

[Fawn]

The Bible says they WILL be there....I’ve told you that.....

[chuckles]

Chapter and verse?....

[RegulatorCountry]

Just for starters, there are animals in heaven in the book of Revelation, chuckles. So that tends to lend some level of support to Fawn’s contentions rather than your own.

As far as chapter and verse regarding the lesser creatures having a soul or spirit, you can turn to King Solomon who pondered just that and punctured the pride of arrogant men who presumed only their own spirits to go upward, while the spirit of beasts only go down into the ground; he regarded such men as beasts themselves and wanted them to realize that they were no better than beasts. Ecclesiastes, chapter 3, verses 18 - 21.

Then, you can turn to the New Testament and the Apostle Paul. First in the book of Romans, chapter 8, verses 18 - 22. Animals were subjected to death through no sin of their own, and have the same hope of being freed from the bondage of corruption as men do. The entire Creation groaneth and travaileth together.

Then, go to I Corinthians, chapter 15, verses 36 - 44. Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die. The Lord has given to each a body as it pleased him, and to every seed it’s own body, different bodies, one body differing from another in glory. There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body. For them all.

This is by no means a complete listing of chapter and verse. These are merely a good starting point. The Bible does not spend a great deal of time on spiritual matters pertaining to other creatures because the Bible is written for man’s salvation. Man is the one who sinned. Man subjected all Creation to the curse, brought death into the world and subjected the lesser creatures to it just as Man was subjected.

Through no fault of their own.

[MarMema]

All Dogs go to heaven

[brytlea]

Yes. You have to wonder if they really like animals as much as they like their agenda.

[Fawn]

Excellent Post....I appreciate everything you wrote. Merry Christmas!

[RegulatorCountry]

Thank you, and a very Merry Christmas to you as well.

Religion hasn't always been so distanced from the plight of the lesser creatures. I suppose it stems from moving inexorably away from daily close contact in an agrarian society. One of the most stunningly, crazily beautiful things I've ever read upon the matter was an old sermon from 1781, The General Deliverance by John Wesley. Every bit of it thouroughly grounded in the Word, too.

Even the Catholics, who are the majority of those on FR who are so insistent upon oblivion for all but man, weren't always so hard of heart. St. Francis of Assissi is well known even outside that church for his love, care and mercy. Another, less well known saint is quite surprising. She was sainted in thirteenth century France. Saint Guinefort. A Greyhound, believe it or not.