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Christopher Hitchens: Godlessness Is Not Great — How Atheism Poisons Everything
The New American ^ | Monday, 19 December 2011 | Selwyn Duke

Posted on 12/20/2011 9:15:48 AM PST by Paladins Prayer

In writing this piece, I’m reminded of a little exchange between the late William F. Buckley and friend and fellow National Review writer Florence King. Buckley had just penned some less-than-flattering words about a recently deceased person of prominence whose name escapes me, and King chided him, saying something to the effect that he had broken ground in journalism: the “attack-obit.” Buckley’s response was, “Wait till you see the obituary I have planned for you!”

And in writing this critical article about bon vivant Christopher Hitchens in the wake of his death this past Thursday, I expect some ridicule as well. Yet I don’t think Hitchens would demand to be spared the acidic ink he used to eviscerate others — or that he would have any credibility doing so. Remember that this was the man who, before the gentle Jerry Falwell’s body was even cold, said things such as “If he [Falwell] had been given an enema, he could have been buried in a matchbox” and “I wish there was a Hell for Falwell.”

For my part, I wouldn’t wish eternal damnation on Hitchens; I truly hope he rests in peace. But I can’t say the same for his legacy. And when I see the obligatory exaltation of his life’s work — with secular icons, the deader they get, the better they were — I think that legacy needs a little damnation.

(Excerpt) Read more at thenewamerican.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: atheism; death; gagdadbob; hitchens; onecosmosblog; religion
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To: A_perfect_lady
I mean, the current, operational Hell. Unless you’re saying there isn’t any yet, which is directly opposed to the other poster’s assertion that it has already been made.

The common usage of 'hell' can and does have different meanings in the original language used. Anything from the burning garbage dump to the grave or the 'did not' over come side of the gulf after the flesh body dies. The 'hell' where the 'spirit' soul entities are destroyed has not yet been created. How we know is that the devil is still in existence and judgment day has not yet taken place. Not one entity in the spirit body will go in ignorance into the to be created fiery furnace.

161 posted on 12/22/2011 5:58:43 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Just mythoughts

So do they suffer forever or are they destroyed?


162 posted on 12/22/2011 6:08:59 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

Yeah but you still have a choice of how to view the vastness of space.

Rise up and praise the Creator God for all His Glory, His Power and be filled with hope. Recognize our true insignificance in comparison to his awesome glory and wonder. Worship and Thank and Praise the only one who is worthy, the source of all our bounty [or even just slightly aware and thankful for the bounty enjoyed by most Americans], to be aware of all His promises of the joys yet to come after this present world passes away.

Or fall back on the cold black darkness of nothingness. On your own self-truths filled with hopelessness, doubt, despair and no real tangible permanent future of a world really and truly perfected - rather than this current one of frightening sin-filled evil lying cheating free-willed and willful beings.

Sorry but from my perspective after 30 years of my walk of faith I think it’s a NO BRAINER.


163 posted on 12/22/2011 6:13:57 PM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels

You live in whatever reality you want to. But I am not buying what you are selling. You aren’t going to close this deal. I’m perfectly content and have no questions about this world. It all makes sense to me just as it is.


164 posted on 12/22/2011 6:18:57 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

Know this - we all have someone we love that we are unsure of the eternal destiny. Some are right here - and some have already died.

And for a minority of us we are compelled to greater acts of faith b/c we hope for God - OUR God - A God of Love and Justice to allow for some hope, some way some, kind of redemption, some more outpouring of His Mercy and Grace.

I think that this is really the only purpose for the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ before the present Earth and Heavens pass away Many true believers try to dis-avow me of this hope. But I see no reason why when I know and understand His attributes. Sure I can’t give you a specific verse and sure I know of the many verses against any type of ‘universalism’ ~ the salvation for all, but I still have hope and consider that just another gift from on high.


165 posted on 12/22/2011 6:22:07 PM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: A_perfect_lady

That’s OK b/c this conversation has only caused my faith hope and love to increase ~ it helped boost my lagging Christmas spirits. I even still have hope for you. Sure you may not accept any truths this minute, or hour, or maybe even this season.

But I’m still glad we could talk. I’m still glad that if need be He will cause all things to come back to your remembrance at the right time and in the right way.

I still like the utter optimism of writers like Max Lucado who thinks that most people just can not face the abyss of death without God whispering memories to aid in their great need before they take that fateful ‘last’ step.

I only said ‘last’ b/c while I do believe God gives us 2nd chances I also know every sin, every turning away carries eternal consequences. I know from reading His Words that I’ll never have to face anything which I formerly feared most. The best is reserved for all who accept this faith in the here and now.

I hope for all the lost, hope for God to have the best possible solution to a very unworkable problem for mere men, hope for all who can’t save themselves from the troubles of separation from eternal love.


166 posted on 12/22/2011 6:35:52 PM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: All

I’ll always love the beauty and truth found in the simplest of solutions...

Romans Chapter 10 verse 9-11 - could anything be any simpler?
“If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”


167 posted on 12/22/2011 6:40:56 PM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels

Hey, if you’re happy, that’s great. I don’t think either you or I have a choice, frankly. You couldn’t stop believing if you tried, and I realized 20 years ago that I couldn’t believe if I wanted to. Belief isn’t an action. It’s a reaction.


168 posted on 12/22/2011 7:10:39 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

I’d like to refer you to my post #77 in this thread regarding the ages of life, Earth and the Universe. There is also another link - the 1st on my links page showing over 100 natural clocks that indicate something much less than millions and billions of years of existence.

There are basically 3 evolutionary long ages clocks.
1 Geologic dating which uses circular logic
2 Radio-Isotopes [from carbon dating to radioactive sources]
3 Star Light - another perspective in post #77

All 3 are neither exact nor free of many assumptions. Actually there are zero natural clocks that we can be precise and exact with due to unknown starting conditions and assumed uniformities.

“It’s the things you learn after you know it all that counts” -John Wooden


169 posted on 12/22/2011 8:03:54 PM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels

Okay, this is just getting ridiculous. I’m sure you mean well, but I’m done. I’ve listened to Scientologists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Wiccans, Catholics, people who think celebrities are sending them secret messages on Letterman... it all ends up the same. Sooner or later we hit the BS wall and I have to call it a day.


170 posted on 12/22/2011 8:10:06 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

First, APL, that is not ‘empty space’. When you get that one straight, we’ll move on to the more weighty aspects of time and space.


171 posted on 12/22/2011 10:00:50 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they cannot be deceived, it's impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN
There are billions of stars and planets and astroids in space, if that's what you mean. But apparently uninhabited. As I said, we take up only a tiny dot where the lines of chance converged. Then we had the audacity to assume that the whole thing had been constructed so that dot might be.

It's the arrogance of childhood to believe that the entire world was placed there in readiness for you, and mankind is still in its childhood, apparently.

But this discussion is pointless on yet another level: why are you trying to prove to me that there is a God? If you prove it, it's not belief anymore, it's knowledge. Your God wants belief, not knowledge. That's why he didn't want Adam and Eve to eat from the tree. That's why he sabotaged the Tower of Babel. Trying to prove His existence works completely counter to his insistence that faith alone is what saves.

172 posted on 12/22/2011 10:11:32 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: killermosquito
The parable ‘part’ of Lazarus and that rich man is that both souls and their spirit intellect both return to the Maker that sent them at conception. But there is a ‘gulf’ that separates the over-comers from the nonbelievers.

Now since this thread is about Mr. Hitchens who recently went to meet His Maker, I do not believe any of us here still in flesh bodies can ‘judge’ which side of the ‘gulf’ that Mr. Hitchens returned. For all any of us know Mr. Hitchens could well have repented without our knowledge.

However, just because Mr. Hitchens has gone to meet His Maker just like the rest of us still here in flesh bodies also will return, Mr. Hitchens departure in no way dictates we must ignore his nasty acid laced words against the Creator and those that love Him.

There is no purpose for the final ‘hell’ yet, and the need for that fire that destroys from within the ‘soul/spirit’ entity will not come about until judgment day. The word hell has a multitude of meanings, such as war is hell. Or this present administration has declared ‘hell’ on America, meaning a state of shame and degradation. That shame and degradation is what that rich man discovered upon his return to the Maker that sent him.

173 posted on 12/23/2011 5:48:59 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: A_perfect_lady
So do they suffer forever or are they destroyed?

The rebel(s) since the beginning, are the cause of suffering, and they willingly and willfully decide they wish to be destroyed and are remembered no more. Eternity is not going to be spent listening to the wails and moans of rebels walking on hot coals. Unfortunately, I have met many who can't wait for the time when their perceived enemies roast forever. But to me personally that in and of itself would be 'hell'.

See even in that parable of the 'rich' man, he figured out he did not want to be where he was. And it is conceivable that after the 'Day' of the LORD is finished of direct instruction and discipline he will have a changed heart/mind. So far to date only the devil and a numbered of his followers have received that final unchangeable judgment of destruction. This is each and every individuals decision, as all are equal in the Eyes of the Creator, and He is the only perfect Judge, and only He can know the heart/mind of His children.

Just like that one that repented while hanging on the cross beside Jesus was 'given' salvation, lets the rest of us in flesh bodies know that 'salvation' is an individuals own personal act.

174 posted on 12/23/2011 6:17:24 AM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: A_perfect_lady

I could never believe that [men invented God out of their own vain imaginations] b/c none of the complexity of creation can be shown to happen by mere chance. Intelligence is required by information theory and by the beauty and orderliness we observe everyday in every facet of life around us. Your 3 billion lines of DNA code can not be shown to determine anything of your character or your essence - whatever makes you you is beyond any physical explanation this world can offer.

Nor can the orderliness for our solar system, galaxy and [eventually I expect to be exclaimed] orderliness of the whole Universe ~ be demonstrated to supposedly self-determine out of the explosion of the big bang. All explosions are shown to create chaos and random useless fragments of stuff.

Heck, even the theory of accretion forming stars and planets was recently in the news ~ roundly criticized for lack of any observations iirc.

You say over and over you’re done but then you continue to post own ridiculous, nay preposterous, [AND you call yourself a teacher] conclusions that constantly mingle truth with error.

Conclusions on FR that you know will get an instant debate. Teacher heal thyself! Seems to me you need to quit teaching and go do some reading and learning over what it is the opposition is truly saying. but I doubt you will since posting FR screeds and diatribes show no new potentials.


175 posted on 12/23/2011 9:53:54 AM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels

All I see is “if you don’t believe as I believe, you... you’d better!!”


176 posted on 12/23/2011 10:07:44 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

Whatever - your position has no explanation for the accuracy of the Bible, a 100% correlation with any related archaeology.

Or how about the prophecies? The 100 or so that foretold of Jesus Christ life and death astound the mathematicians due to the probability calculations alone, when simply assigning them a 1 in 10 or 1 in 50 chance of being fulfilled individually.

Obviously you’re worldview allows for all the knowledge and science mankind can discover but no allowance for pondering how all of it came to be - just poof - all chance. As I said whatever. I had good teachers that truly inspired me and then I had teachers who were obviously just going through the motions [ I got out of their realm asap too so I’m happy to stop posing questions anytime you want to just let it be ].

Kind of tired of any constant accusations assigning my motives for any of this too.


177 posted on 12/23/2011 10:42:53 AM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels
No, there is not much correlation between the archaeological record and the Bible. They both agree that there was a flood, but the Bible isn't the only place that information was recorded.

Any prophecies Jesus' life seems to fulfill is because his disciples changed the details of his life to fit the descriptions as best they could after his death. "He shall be called Emmanuel" Yeah, they called him that all the time! Sure! It's a nickname for Jesus. "He shall be born of a virgin." Well, his parents were actually married but we are certain they didn't consummate the marriage. "He shall be born in Bethlehem." Well, they lived somewhere else but... uhm... yes, they traveled there! Sure! She was 9 months pregnant and her husband (who hasn't touched her) just tossed her on a donkey and off they went. "He shall be the King of Israel." Yes, well... that isn't exactly what the prophecy really, really meant. Really, what it meant was something else. "He shall rise again." He did! Of course, we didn't recognize him even though it was only a couple days later, but you know, we'd been drinking kind of heavily. "Some of you will not taste death until the Kingdom of God comes" Well, he didn't exactly mean THAT... it goes on and on.

Look if you want to believe in all this nonsense, you go right ahead. I know people who believe aliens are trying to warn us about the Mayan prophecy next year. But you are not selling it to me. You can keep trying, but I am not buying.

178 posted on 12/23/2011 11:36:34 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

You could not be more wrong - the Dead Sea scrolls confirmed that the Biblical record has not been changed regarding the Old Testament which is where the prophecies appear. Psalm 22 contains several regarding Jesus Christ on the cross.

You can choose to be a skeptic about everything but you certainly have not done any factual analysis to back up your ridiculous claims.


179 posted on 12/23/2011 11:57:29 AM PST by BrandtMichaels
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To: BrandtMichaels

You didn’t address anything I said.


180 posted on 12/23/2011 12:05:22 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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