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Police kill 8th-grader with gun at Texas school
Associated Press ^ | Thursday, January 5, 2012 | Christopher Sherman

Posted on 01/05/2012 6:39:22 AM PST by VU4G10

Brownsville, Texas -- Police shot and killed an eighth-grader in the hallway of his middle school Wednesday after the boy brandished what looked like a handgun and pointed it at officers. It turned out to be a pellet gun that closely resembled the real thing

"Jaime was not a bad kid," she said. "I'm not saying he was perfect or an angel, but he was a very giving person."

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: banglist; playstupidgames; texas; winstupidprizes
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1 posted on 01/05/2012 6:39:23 AM PST by VU4G10
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To: VU4G10

Well, guess he won’t be pointing any more guns at police officers anymore.


2 posted on 01/05/2012 6:42:43 AM PST by ransacked
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To: VU4G10
Here's the "pellet gun."


3 posted on 01/05/2012 6:43:33 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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misleading headline, should have noted ‘student brandishing weapon, shot by police’


4 posted on 01/05/2012 6:43:52 AM PST by raygunfan
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To: VU4G10
Yep, nother example of overzealous cops.

Sure, the kid was wrong for having the pellet gun. He also brought this on himself without question.

The cops didn't have to blaze away at this kid. Perhaps a well placed shot to the hip or leg.

This would have dropped the kid immediately writhing in pain.

Did ya really have to shoot the kid several times? Did ya really have to cap the kid in the head?

5 posted on 01/05/2012 6:46:02 AM PST by servantboy777
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To: The_Victor

Sad this young man made several fatal mistakes. Bringing the gun to school in the first place and by pointing it at a police officer with threats to kill everyone, he put himself in jeaprody. Under the circumstances, (In my opinion) he gave the officers no other alternatives. I too, have been trained to do what the officers did.


6 posted on 01/05/2012 6:51:41 AM PST by Progov
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To: servantboy777

The cops assumption must be that when a kid comes into a classroom with a gun, it’s to shoot kids.

Having seen photos of the weapon in question, (no orange tip, looks like the real thing), I don’t think the cops had any choice.

If they hesitated and he got off a few rounds and killed some kids, the cops would get the blame.


7 posted on 01/05/2012 6:53:18 AM PST by Mrs.Z
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To: servantboy777
The cops didn't have to blaze away at this kid. Perhaps a well placed shot to the hip or leg.

????

cops are trained to shoot to kill and are not allowed by department regulations to purposely try to wound a perp...and rightly so

that being said, the PD in Ogden, Utah should look at this cop for training their cops after 6 of theirs got shot(1 killed) overnight and they only just wounded the perp.

8 posted on 01/05/2012 6:55:53 AM PST by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: servantboy777
Perhaps a well placed shot to the hip or leg.

Sure. Just like in the movies /s

9 posted on 01/05/2012 6:58:00 AM PST by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Vaquero
Really? So tasers, shotgun shells with bean bag rounds, CS gas, dogs, flash bang grenades could not have been deployed?

Swat teams have advanced Kevlar body armor, shields and the latest non-lethal weaponry.

Evacuate the area, corner the kid.

I dunno, perhaps they opened fire after the kid popped off a few rounds....oh, wait, he couldn't have.

This is buII$4it. They did not have to kill’em. Come on.

10 posted on 01/05/2012 7:03:16 AM PST by servantboy777
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To: raygunfan

Misleading headline, indeed. I’m surprised it didn’t say “Darling 8th Grade Angel Murdered by Police in Cold Blood.”


11 posted on 01/05/2012 7:03:54 AM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Progov

Actually, the first mistake was buying a pellet gun that looked like a real weapon under the assumption that it would scare someone.


12 posted on 01/05/2012 7:04:08 AM PST by dirtymac (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country., Really! NOW!!!)
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To: servantboy777

There’s a price to pay for stupidity, in this case, his life.

Based on the story here, the cop did the right thing, and I applaud him.


13 posted on 01/05/2012 7:08:37 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer each and every year..)
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To: servantboy777
Really? So tasers, shotgun shells with bean bag rounds, CS gas, dogs, flash bang grenades could not have been deployed?

Soooo, did the first responder have this ordnance you so fondly speak of???? or should he have called for backup while this little POS went on his merry waying offing teachers.

here is a picture of the 15 year old 8th grader with his GF holding his gun.

Glad to see that this possible future drug dealer/la Raza soldier/rapist/murderer was taken out EARLY in his career.

flame away.

14 posted on 01/05/2012 7:13:19 AM PST by Vaquero ("an armed society is a polite society" Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: servantboy777

Ah, picture proves my point. I’m glad he’s dead. Stupid people shouldn’t be allowed to breath.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2828922/posts#1


15 posted on 01/05/2012 7:13:19 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer each and every year..)
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To: servantboy777
Perhaps a well placed shot to the hip or leg.

You must be new. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

16 posted on 01/05/2012 7:13:56 AM PST by Lion Den Dan
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To: servantboy777
Shoot to wound yeah right.

You have a 0.2 second decision to make to protect your own life and the lives of hundreds of students and teachers and be sure to take careful aim....just like in the movies.

17 posted on 01/05/2012 7:14:18 AM PST by pfflier
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To: servantboy777

Yeah, sure. If the kid had walked around the corner with that aimed at you and you were armed, would you take the time or the chance to talk to him, call the cops, get your body armor or otherwise defuse the situation? I doubt that you would hesitate and risk your life or the lives of anyone with you. If the kid had walked into a liquor store with the same gun to commit a robbery and a store employee had popped him everyone would be praising the employee. The situation was real life and not scripted Hollywood fantasy.


18 posted on 01/05/2012 7:15:03 AM PST by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: servantboy777
Really? So tasers, shotgun shells with bean bag rounds, CS gas, dogs, flash bang grenades could not have been deployed?

Swat teams have advanced Kevlar body armor, shields and the latest non-lethal weaponry.

Evacuate the area, corner the kid.

I dunno, perhaps they opened fire after the kid popped off a few rounds....oh, wait, he couldn't have.

This is buII$4it. They did not have to kill’em. Come on.

Did you actually read the entire article?. Where did it say he was shot in the head?

Yeah it was a tragedy, but the kid was tragically stupid the police told him to drop the gun SEVERAL times. As far as I am concerned One warning then take him down.

As far as non Lethal methods a wounded cornered animal is more dangerous. a wounded assailant can still shoot back or shoot others. They fired three shots between two officers. He was struck twice. One of the officers needs to hit the target range more, all three shots should have been center Mass.

19 posted on 01/05/2012 7:16:22 AM PST by verga (We get what we tolerate and increase that which we reward)
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To: servantboy777
The cops didn't have to blaze away at this kid.

Blaze away, did they? They protected their lives.

Perhaps a well placed shot to the hip or leg.

This is real life, NOT the movies.

20 posted on 01/05/2012 7:18:40 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: ransacked
"Well, guess he won’t be pointing any more guns at police officers anymore."

His biggest mistake wasn't the pointing of the weapon. It was not paying attention to the command to drop the weapon. The police did what they had to do. With all the school shootings lately.
A lot of children are not taught to obey the police. Right or wrong do what they say. If they tell you wrong there is a time to correct it later, after you obeyed their commands.
I honestly believe that when paddling was taken away from the schools, we lost control of the kids that needed discipline.

21 posted on 01/05/2012 7:19:02 AM PST by DeaconRed (Cold War Veteran. . . . US Army Security Agency 1964-1968)
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To: VU4G10

Suicide by cop.


22 posted on 01/05/2012 7:24:32 AM PST by MIchaelTArchangel (Romney ruined Massachusetts. Now he wants to ruin the nation.)
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To: Vaquero

You will probably get flamed, but I think you are right on target. The picture of him with his girlfriend shows that Jaime Gonzalez (and his girlfriend) are little more than thugs.


23 posted on 01/05/2012 7:27:27 AM PST by MIchaelTArchangel (Romney ruined Massachusetts. Now he wants to ruin the nation.)
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To: MIchaelTArchangel

Yes, and I feel for the cops who had to do what was necessary.


24 posted on 01/05/2012 7:30:33 AM PST by kickonly88 (I love fossil fuel!)
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To: servantboy777
And the award for most ignorant post of all time goes to...

Yep, nother example of overzealous cops. Sure, the kid was wrong for having the pellet gun. He also brought this on himself without question.

The cops didn't have to blaze away at this kid. Perhaps a well placed shot to the hip or leg.

This would have dropped the kid immediately writhing in pain.

Did ya really have to shoot the kid several times? Did ya really have to cap the kid in the head?

- servantboy777, January 5, 2012

25 posted on 01/05/2012 7:33:15 AM PST by ConservaTexan (February 6, 1911)
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To: verga

I read an article last evening that reported 3 shots one of which hit him in the head.

MSM....never know what’cha get.


26 posted on 01/05/2012 7:34:40 AM PST by servantboy777
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To: VU4G10
“Two officers fired three shots, hitting Gonzalez at least twice, police said.”

I just don't think police should be the first to fire in a school or other public situation. What ever happened to the concern for bystanders. Any of those bullets could have killed someone else, maybe another child. That seems to sacrifice public safety for personal safety.

In this case, if the police had held fire until the boy fired first, they would have had a good laugh* as they carted the perp off to juvy. By firing first, the possibility of a peaceful resolution was completely rejected by police.

*I know, I know. You can lose an eye.

27 posted on 01/05/2012 7:35:18 AM PST by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: servantboy777
So tasers, shotgun shells with bean bag rounds, CS gas, dogs, flash bang grenades could not have been deployed? Swat teams have advanced Kevlar body armor, shields and the latest non-lethal weaponry.

You're arguing that the cops went too far, while advocating more SWAT Team involvement? I don't think I've ever seen that combination before.

28 posted on 01/05/2012 7:35:57 AM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: VU4G10
"Jaime was not a bad kid,"

They NEVER are - but there's a first time for everything.

29 posted on 01/05/2012 7:36:42 AM PST by The Sons of Liberty (Psalm 109:8 Let his days be few and let another take his office. - Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin)
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To: servantboy777

Nonsense. You either shoot to kill (hoping it takes the man down but doesn’t actually kill) or don’t shoot at all.

It seems like the police did the right thing here, but the issue is not whether they should have shot to kill or fired a “well placed shot to the hip or leg”, but whehter they should have fired at all.

This is the real world, not a Hollywood movie. Trying to shoot the gun out of an assailant’s hand like the Waco Kid is a good way to get officers and bystanders killed.


30 posted on 01/05/2012 7:41:19 AM PST by Above My Pay Grade
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To: The Sons of Liberty

In fairness, in the article I read the grandmother did seem to acknowledge that the boy was at fault for his own death and admitted he was no angel. In context, I took her comment to mean he wasn’t ALL bad. Compared to the relatives of most dead thugs I’ve read about, she seemed pretty reasonable.

Normally, the cop or citizen who shoots the thug in self defense is labeled as the evil doer and we hear about how the dead thug was a “good boy” and “was turning his life around” and considering, thinking about, looking into getting his GED (at the time he committed the armed robbery).


31 posted on 01/05/2012 7:48:31 AM PST by Above My Pay Grade
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To: ConservaTexan

Wow, wonder how many of you would profess to be Christian.

If someone just happened up on this thread, they’re first impression would be, “what a bunch of blood thirsty people”.

Whatever, you guys can rail all ya want. This was a kid and with all the resources our police forces have at their disposal now days, there was no need to kill him.


32 posted on 01/05/2012 7:48:48 AM PST by servantboy777
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To: servantboy777
Whatever, you guys can rail all ya want. This was a kid and with all the resources our police forces have at their disposal now days, there was no need to kill him.

Don't be so stupid. Are they suppose to shoot the gun out of his hand?
33 posted on 01/05/2012 7:53:15 AM PST by ZX12R (FUBO GTFO 2012 !)
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To: raygunfan

I believe a lot of Nazi soldiers were “8th grade boys”.

My point: An 8th grader brandishing a weapon can be as dangerous as a 30 year old brandishing a weapon. And a belligerent attitude is not a good sign.


34 posted on 01/05/2012 7:55:28 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: servantboy777

I think they should have shot the gun out of his hand.

/s


35 posted on 01/05/2012 7:56:13 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Vaquero

“...this possible future drug dealer/la Raza soldier/rapist/murderer was taken out EARLY in his career.”

I have to admit it is not lost on me that this may be exactly what this comes down to.


36 posted on 01/05/2012 7:58:19 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: servantboy777

Yep, just shoot to wound and that way the kids parents could sue the police for a ton of money and in that area you can bet that they would have gotten a bunch. /s
I suspect that there will be lawsuits filed anyway even though the police had every justification to shoot.

My dad always told me if you screw up you’d better be willing to suffer the consequences. Too bad the kid didn’t use better judgment. I read that he had problems at school before. I guess he won’t any more.

.


37 posted on 01/05/2012 8:01:53 AM PST by flatfish
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To: Mister Da

—I just don’t think police should be the first to fire in a school or other public situation. —

You and I strongly disagree on that one.

—In this case, if the police had held fire until the boy fired first, they would have had a good laugh* as they carted the perp off to juvy. By firing first, the possibility of a peaceful resolution was completely rejected by police.—

OTOH, if it had been a real gun and the police had not taken him down, there would have been no “good laugh”. None at all. And since the police do not have crystal balls, they had no idea which it was, but it was probably the latter.


38 posted on 01/05/2012 8:02:26 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: servantboy777
Guys like you on these threads drive Me nuts. It's always the "monday morning quarterbacking" by people who don't know jack $h*t about law enforcement. And before you ask,Yes I am a cop. There is something We use called the "use of force continuum" . It dictates appropriate responses to a suspects actions. What this kid did was perceived as use of deadly force. And remember that word "perceived". All police use of force is judged by what is called an officers reasonable perception of danger to himself/herself. That means, based on the immediate situation and not all the information that tends to come out later. If you can articulate to the satisfaction of your agency and the local prosecutors your actions were appropriate to a persons reasonable perceptions of danger, you will be cleared.Pretend you are a cop. Quick! you come around the corner, and you spot a kid brandishing what appears to be a very real Glock model 22, and He's not following your extremely loud and persistent orders to drop his weapon. also imagine that on either side of the hall there literally hundreds of children on either side behind walls and doors.He could run into a classroom and take hostages, or he could fire through the walls. Bullets don't care about doors and walls.Even if he's not a threat to you, he's still an active threat to anybody nearby. Decide. Decide what you're gonna do. Decide in a split second.And the be prepared to have everybody and you uncle second guess it for the rest of your life. That's what these situations are like. Police oversight IS necessary, human nature being what it is. But what isn't necessary is this second guessing by people who don't understand thing one about wearing a badge and gun. and, BTW the comment about shooting to wound: they hire us as cops, NOT as targets

CC

39 posted on 01/05/2012 8:02:27 AM PST by Celtic Conservative (Wisdom comes from experience. Experience comes from a lack of wisdom.)
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To: The Sons of Liberty

Mother of convicted murderer right after the verdict is read: But my Tyrone is a GOOOOOD boy!!

Parents can be a bit jaded.


40 posted on 01/05/2012 8:03:33 AM PST by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: ransacked

Normally I’m not a fan of the police, but in this instance, I don’t see that they did anything wrong. Many teenagers frequently do stupid things that can get them killed. Most of the time they get away with it, but in this instance, the thug wannabe didn’t.


41 posted on 01/05/2012 8:06:07 AM PST by from occupied ga (your own government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Mister Da
I just don't think police should be the first to fire in a school or other public situation. What ever happened to the concern for bystanders. Any of those bullets could have killed someone else, maybe another child. That seems to sacrifice public safety for personal safety.Z

The Ariticle said the school qwas on Lockdown. Tht means that the hallways are cleared and the class room doors are locked. The only way you get in is either with a badge or they go to Code Green.

42 posted on 01/05/2012 8:08:42 AM PST by verga (We get what we tolerate and increase that which we reward)
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To: servantboy777
Let me get this straight. You want me to feel sympathy for:

A) A 15 year old 8th grader (strike one)

B) Who takes a gun (real or not) to school (strike two)

C)And then ignores police commands and points the gun at an officer (strike three)

Sorry, but I reserve my sympathy for the truly deserving. This guy does not even come close.

43 posted on 01/05/2012 8:12:42 AM PST by ConservaTexan (February 6, 1911)
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To: servantboy777
Wow, wonder how many of you would profess to be Christian.

Probably all of us. The first duty is to protect the INNOCENT. This kid was no innocent, maybe he was a poser of a wannabe, but he was a a poser wannabe with a GUN.

44 posted on 01/05/2012 8:18:21 AM PST by verga (We get what we tolerate and increase that which we reward)
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To: ConservaTexan
And the award for most ignorant post of all time goes to... - servantboy777, January 5, 2012

BINGO!

45 posted on 01/05/2012 8:19:27 AM PST by matthew fuller ("If the past sits in judgment on the present, the future will be lost." Winston Churchill)
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To: servantboy777

I am a Christian, and proud of it.

I also realize that stupid people set themselves up to be killed, and I’m pleased this piece of trash did so early in his life.

You may be hiding under your bed, afraid someone will accuse you of judging others. Well, I’m not afraid to follow the Biblical command and pass judgement.

The world is a better place without this kid.


46 posted on 01/05/2012 8:20:14 AM PST by Balding_Eagle (Overproduction, one of the top five worries of the American Farmer each and every year..)
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To: Celtic Conservative

Thank you for your service and a well thought out reasonable post.


47 posted on 01/05/2012 8:21:55 AM PST by verga (We get what we tolerate and increase that which we reward)
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To: verga
Thank you in return for your respectful and thoughtful comments.

CC

48 posted on 01/05/2012 8:25:38 AM PST by Celtic Conservative (Wisdom comes from experience. Experience comes from a lack of wisdom.)
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To: servantboy777

Double tap, center mass. The only reasonable way to deal with someone pointing a gun at you who has refused to put it down.

Period.

Christ said to his followers to sell their cloak to buy a sword if they did not already have one to protect them from bandits and the lawless. Paul said that those in authority were given the sword for a purpose, so obey lawful authority.

I believe that there is plenty of abuse and over-reach by police, I believe that a lot of tasering and shooting could be avoided by using common sense and better behavior by police, but in this case, shooting this kid was 100% the right call.


49 posted on 01/05/2012 8:35:28 AM PST by Anitius Severinus Boethius
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To: servantboy777

It’s not so simple. Thinks happen very quickly, and it seems to me that based on the known facts at the time of the decision: the kid appeared to be a nutcase, with a gun, in a school, disobeying orders, and he is in an area with lots of potential targets. The cops had a legitimate chance to stop the threat, and they had no choice but to act. If the cops had not acted, then (based on the perceived facts) the kid could have killed a bunch of people. The cops had a duty to protect the innocent.


50 posted on 01/05/2012 8:38:19 AM PST by Stat-boy
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