Celani, Piantelli Geneva LENR Presentations

ECat News ^ | January 9, 2012 | Roy Viriglio

[Kevmo]

gosh, that sure sounds like the other side of “if he sells systems then it’s a scam”. Make up your mind.

[Johnny B.]

I don't see what else would be convincing. Specific jobs held, where schooled, are irrelevant to the judgement of expertise. For that, they don't even need to know the guy's name.

I don't know how I could have been so blind! Of course it doesn't matter whether we know anything about this anonymous guy, sine the anonymouse customer trusts him!

Or, rather, Rossi says that the anonymous customer trusts the anonymous agent.

How could anyone doubt Rossi with that kind of rock-solid evidence!

[Wonder Warthog]

"I don't know how I could have been so blind! Of course it doesn't matter whether we know anything about this anonymous guy, sine the anonymouse customer trusts him!"

Stop dodging the point. The OTHER outside experts who were attending the demostration were judging the TECHNICAL QUALFICATIONS of the evaluator. The anonymity of the customer, the evaluator, and anybody else matters not one bit with respect to making that judgment.

[Johnny B.]

The OTHER outside experts who were attending the demostration were judging the TECHNICAL QUALFICATIONS of the evaluator.

Are you suggesting that someone who is knowledgable in a field couldn't also be engaged in fraudulent behavior?

The reason the evaluator's identity is important not to determine whether he is technically competent, but to determine whether he is trustworthy.

Getting a "certification" from an anonymous source is useless.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Are you suggesting that someone who is knowledgable in a field couldn't also be engaged in fraudulent behavior? The reason the evaluator's identity is important not to determine whether he is technically competent, but to determine whether he is trustworthy. Getting a "certification" from an anonymous source is useless."

I "ought" to just copy and paste Kevmo's list of all the things Rossi had to do in order to maintain his "fake". Your supposition is in the same category. I think we need to coin a new pschyological term to fit your contining lunacy----I think "skeptomania" is accurate and descriptive.

[Johnny B.]

I "ought" to just copy and paste Kevmo's list of all the things Rossi had to do in order to maintain his "fake".

Right, because it's impossible that Rossi would ever think of the totally new and untried tactic of having accomplices.

If you were honest with yourself, you would review the decade-long history of Rossi's financial frauds in Italy. You would see that he often worked with various accomplices to commit his various scams. All of those accomplices appeared at first to be honest citizens, but they all ended up going to prison.

You can't have an anonymous "expert" validate an anonymous "customer". If either were known to be credible, then that would add credibility to Rossi. But since all we have is Rossi's unsubstantiated word about both, it doesn't add any credibility at all.

And, if this "secret" customer really didn't want publicity, they certainly wouldn't have allowed Rossi to invite a room full of "witnesses", including a reporter from Associated Press, to attend their acceptance testing. But it makes perfect sense if the "acceptance testing" was just a part of a scam.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Right, because it's impossible that Rossi would ever think of the totally new and untried tactic of having accomplices."

Yeah, right. All those witnesses who viewed all those demonstrations were Rossi's accomplices.

"If you were honest with yourself, you would review the decade-long history of Rossi's financial frauds in Italy. You would see that he often worked with various accomplices to commit his various scams. All of those accomplices appeared at first to be honest citizens, but they all ended up going to prison."

More horse manure. Even from your own links one can see that the courts in Italy didn't think Rossi was the magnitude of criminal you are claiming. The LONGEST sentence was two years, the rest were on the order of a month, or suspended. He has been ACCUSED of many things and convicted of virtually none.

Compare that to Bernie Madoff, whose sentence was 150 years.

But according to you, Rossi is the equivalent of an ax murderer.

"If either were known to be credible, then that would add credibility to Rossi. But since all we have is Rossi's unsubstantiated word about both, it doesn't add any credibility at all."

There were a large number of very credible witnesses at the demo, who tested and verified the expertise of the evaluator.

Here's a clue. You are:

ape-sh*t, barmy, bats in the belfry, batty, berserk, bonkers*, cracked, crazed, cuckoo, daft, delirious, demented, deranged, dingy*, dippy, erratic, flaky, flipped, flipped out, freaked out, fruity, idiotic, insane, kooky, lunatic, mad, mad as a March hare, mad as a hatter, maniacal, mental*, moonstruck, nuts, nutty, nutty as fruitcake, of unsound mind, out of one's mind, out of one's tree, out to lunch, potty, psycho, round the bend, schizo, screw loose, screwball, screwy, silly, touched*, unbalanced, unglued, unhinged, unzipped, wacky.

In other words, a "twirl the finger around the ear" skeptomaniac.

[Johnny B.]

More horse manure. Even from your own links one can see that the courts in Italy didn't think Rossi was the magnitude of criminal you are claiming. The LONGEST sentence was two years, the rest were on the order of a month, or suspended. He has been ACCUSED of many things and convicted of virtually none.

From THIS link:

Yesterday, for '"alchemist", came the day of reckoning: a sentence of 8 years in prison for fraudulent bankruptcy, the fine imposed by the court on summary of' preliminary hearing

This eight-year prison sentence occurred after Rossi was acquitted of the toxic waste parts only of his earlier conviction for both toxic waste dumping and fraud, racketeering and money laundering.

You are wrong yet again.

[Wonder Warthog]

"You are wrong yet again."

Perhaps. I find it interesting that the only source you ever quote for Rossi's transgressions is "Corrierre della Sera".

I have no way of knowing what the "credibility" of said publication is, and I suspect you don't either. The Mafia controls a lot of things in Italy.

Your postings from that source are at odds with what information I can glean elsewhere. And in fact, this story is completely at odds with other facts. The date of the reportage is 20 October 2000. If Rossi had served eight years in the pen starting then, he would only have been freed in 2008. Not much time to have worked in the US, made a fortune, and returned to Italy to research cold fusion.

Sorry, your "facts" just don't compute.

[Johnny B.]

Perhaps. I find it interesting that the only source you ever quote for Rossi's transgressions is "Corrierre della Sera".

I have no way of knowing what the "credibility" of said publication is, and I suspect you don't either. The Mafia controls a lot of things in Italy.

Here's what Wikipedia says about "Corrierre della Sera":

It is among the oldest and most reputable Italian newspapers. Its main rivals are Rome's La Repubblica and Turin's La Stampa.

And, for some strange reason, no English-language was covering Rossi's considerable criminal career throughout the 1990s.

But, of course, you would rather believe Rossi.

[Johnny B.]

Your postings from that source are at odds with what information I can glean elsewhere. And in fact, this story is completely at odds with other facts. The date of the reportage is 20 October 2000. If Rossi had served eight years in the pen starting then, he would only have been freed in 2008. Not much time to have worked in the US, made a fortune, and returned to Italy to research cold fusion.

The "information" you "glean elsewhere" is almost certainly someone repeating what they heard from Rossi himself (like asking O.J. Simpson if he killed his ex-wife). If you have any credible, independent information about it, please share it with the rest of us.

Regarding that 8-year prison sentence: To the best of my knowledge, Rossi was incommunicado during that time. I searched for any signs of him in the newspaper archives right up to the point where he appeared with his E-Cat, and found absolutely nothing.

In particular, the newspaper had earlier reported on the reversals for the toxic waste dumping charges (but not the financial fraud charges), so it's reasonable to assume that if Rossi was vindicated, the paper would have covered it.

The fact that there is nothing suggests that he served his time (whatever it would be for an 8-year sentence) and was released in the normal, not newsworthy, course of events.

One interesting tidbit: In the Army report about Rossi's "ThermoElectric Converter", the author states that Rossi returned to Italy in mid-2000 "to continue his work". In reality, he apparently had every intention of returning the the United States (he had a return ticket), but unfortunately for him, he was arrested as a fugitive, convicted and jailed.

Again, if you have any credible, independent information, please share it.

If all you have is a bunch of "Rossi says", then don't bother.

[Wonder Warthog]

"The "information" you "glean elsewhere" is almost certainly someone repeating what they heard from Rossi himself (like asking O.J. Simpson if he killed his ex-wife). If you have any credible, independent information about it, please share it with the rest of us."

Do you ever do ANYTHING other than speculate?? That's what your entire response amounts to, speculation. Give it a rest.

[Kevmo]

I think “skeptomania” is accurate and descriptive.

***I like the term “skeptopath”

[Wonder Warthog]

I like it too, but I think a “skeptopath” suffers from “skeptomania”, so both apply. To me, “skeptopath” is somewhat indicative of malicious intent/actions.