Perry: Marines in video are 'kids,' not criminals [Obama: Ft. Hood Shooting = Workplace Violence]

Sacramento Bee ^ | January 15, 2012 | ANNE FLAHERTY

[Cincinatus' Wife]

....[Gov. Rick] Perry's comments put him at odds with Sen. John McCain, the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, who said the images could damage the war effort.

"The Marine Corps prides itself that we don't lower ourselves to the level of the enemy," McCain said when asked about Perry's position. "So it makes me sad more than anything else, because ... I can't tell you how wonderful these people (Marines) are. And it hurts their reputation and their image."

No one has been charged in the case, but officials in the U.S. and abroad have called for swift punishment of the four Marines. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said last week that he worried the video could be used by the Taliban to undermine peace talks.

A military criminal investigation and an internal Marine Corps review are under way. The Geneva Conventions forbid the desecration of the dead.

Texas Gov. Perry said the Marines involved should be reprimanded but not prosecuted on criminal charges.

"Obviously, 18-, 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often. And that's what's occurred here," Perry told CNN's "State of the Union."

He later added: "What's really disturbing to me is the kind of over-the-top rhetoric from this administration and their disdain for the military."

Later appearing on the same show, McCain said he disagreed.

"We're trying to win the hearts and minds" of the Afghanistan population, he said. "And when something like that comes up, it obviously harms that ability."

[6SJ7]

If McCain thinks we are going to win the hearts and minds of anyone in Afghanistan he is a lunatic.

It's like using kind words on a rabid dog; it won't work. However, a large stick will.

[oh8eleven]

They should receive office hours. In today's military that would most likely end their careers.
Sorry, but an Article 15 (aka, office hours) wouldn't put a dent in a military career. If anything, it would be political correctness that did it.
Somehow, many good field Marines have Art 15 entries in their SRBs (page 12?), and I've known many with more than one.
The multiple offenders lost out on a Good Conduct medal and delayed promotions.
When it came time for me to re-up (1969), one of the "bennies" offered to me was to wipe clean my SRB entry on page 12.

[NTHockey]

Once again, McCain is so wrong. McCain was a Naval Aviator. He has no idea of what it takes to be a Marine. We Marines are taught to kill or be killed. THAT is the ONLY ROE. If these Marines decide to p*ss on a dead enemy, so be it. I haven’t walked in their shoes; therefore, I will NOT condemn them.

Semper fi
Do or die

[MinuteGal]

Post of the Week!

Leni

[MinuteGal]

Hey, Moochelle, nothing like flaunting your well-toned cleavage at a funeral service for America's dead war heroes.

You GO, girl.

Leni

[Blue Ink]

Rick Perry... this is exactly why you’re too stupid to be President. You understand nothing about the military... and you served!!!

You demean the MEN and their mission by calling them “kids.”

And when you try to excuse their actions by virtue of their being “kids,” you’re implying that you think they should be punished — except they’re just kids, so no, that excuses them.

These MEN — the best men in the United States — do not need you or any other slimy pol to either make excuses for them or persecute them for doing their jobs, you simpering, smarmy dolt.

[ArrogantBustard]

Urinate on the Taliban Piece Of Crap That Just Tried To Kill You & Your Fellow Marines, you're a Marine.

VIDEOTAPE yourself doing it, and you're an idiot.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"Sorry, but an Article 15 (aka, office hours) wouldn't put a dent in a military career."

You speak of the Marine Corps that you and I belonged to. That Marine Corps is gone. You have a large surplus of people trying to get in, couple that with the fact that the Marine Corps has to get down to 176,000 (or so) and in today's Marine Corps (and military in general), they are looking for reasons to force people out who want to stay in. Look at the new policy concerning tatoos. What does a tatoo on your forearm have to do with whether you are a good Marine or not? Answer, it doesn't. It's just another way to make the decision easier to force out well qualified Marines because of government mandated force reductions.

[TheOldLady]

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[oh8eleven]

That Marine Corps is gone.
It may have changed/morphed some, but I'll bet it would still be recognizable to old farts like us.
I went back to Lejeune in 2005 and except for the addition of a couple of fast food joints, it was essentially the same place as 1969.
With regard to forcing Marines out to help get down to 176,000, I found this in the Marine Corps Times (Feb 2009)...

"Over the past two years, the Corps has jumped dramatically ahead of its initial goal to grow from 180,000 to 202,000 Marines by the end of fiscal 2011."

So it appears the Corps had been growing for at least two years ... which doesn't mean the "grow" order hasn't been superceded by a "shrink" order.

[af_vet_rr]

"Obviously, 18-, 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often. And that's what's occurred here," Perry told CNN's "State of the Union."

I'll make sure that my son, who is a Marine serving in Afghanistan, knows that Rick Perry thinks he's a kid, rather than a man serving his country.

[af_vet_rr]

Look at the new policy concerning tatoos. What does a tatoo on your forearm have to do with whether you are a good Marine or not? Answer, it doesn't. It's just another way to make the decision easier to force out well qualified Marines because of government mandated force reductions.

Honestly, these days a lot of people are getting crazy tattoos. I'm sure some of the hysteria over gangs in the military drove some of it as well.

But Marines serving before the new policy were grandfathered in for the most part. The real impact will be on recruiting. My son said there were a lot fewer folks getting in on waivers because they have plenty of people wanting to be a Marine and they can be a lot less selective.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"It may have changed/morphed some"

I only meant from the standpoint of staying in the corps. Heck, even while I was in, when I first came in if you got busted for smoking dope, you could finish out your tour and not be allowed to re-enlist. By the end, if you popped in the whiz quiz you were automatically slated for an OTH discharge. When we were in, you probably knew guys who were given a choice by judges to do 30 days in the polk for some offense or join the corps. Guys that didn't graduate highschool or perhaps had a GED. Heck, I even knew a Lieutenant who admitted to me that he had a highschool GED and then went on to college. That is the Marine Corps that I speak of as gone. Where getting in and staying in was not as stringent.

"Over the past two years, the Corps has jumped dramatically ahead of its initial goal to grow from 180,000 to 202,000 Marines by the end of fiscal 2011."

Yes, that was 2009. The beginning of the Obama administration. Still under the Bush military that was gearing up for the surge in Afghanistan. Today's military is the military that is winding down all of it's overseas engagements and is facing serious budget cuts. As part of the budget cuts, it is estimated that the Marine Corps will get down to about 176,000.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

"But Marines serving before the new policy were grandfathered in for the most part."

I'm glad to hear that. What I had heard previously about the policy is that it did effect serving military. I don't know if I knew anyone that came in the Marine Corps with tattoos. They got all of their tattoos while in the Corps. Phillipines and Okinawa were popular places to get tats.

[af_vet_rr]

I'm glad to hear that. What I had heard previously about the policy is that it did effect serving military. I don't know if I knew anyone that came in the Marine Corps with tattoos. They got all of their tattoos while in the Corps. Phillipines and Okinawa were popular places to get tats.

I'm sure there are some exceptions though - some people take things too far. From what I read on one of the military news sites a while back, they were trying to discourage tattoos that were highly visible. It sounded like if it was covered by PT gear, it's not a problem, or if it's not covered, it has to meet certain criteria, a certain size, etc.

[oh8eleven]

It sounded like if it was covered by PT gear, it's not a problem ...
"...tattoos visible in PT uniforms cannot be larger than the wearer’s hand with fingers extended and joined and the thumb touching the base of the index finger."
Corps clears up tattoo policy ...

[Old Teufel Hunden]

So they are booting people out with tats showing. That’s what I understood the policy to be. Sounds like it’s only extremely large tats. Sounds like the eagle globe and anchor on the forearm will still allow you to stay in.

[Old Teufel Hunden]

oops, not booting them out. Just not allowing them to re-enlist.

[oh8eleven]

Sounds like it’s only extremely large tats.
Sounds like it really got out of control too.
The biggest issue we had in '69 was the length of our sideburns.

[af_vet_rr]

And when you try to excuse their actions by virtue of their being “kids,” you’re implying that you think they should be punished — except they’re just kids, so no, that excuses them.

Well Perry clarified tonight during the debate that he believed the Marines should be punished, and he called them young men rather than kids.