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Has Obama Lost the Catholic Left?
The Cardinal Newman Society | 01/22/12 | CNS Staff

Posted on 01/22/2012 9:42:58 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM

Has Obama Lost the Catholic Left?

Lyndon B. Johnson, after watching Walter Cronkite conclude a special broadcast which was heavily critical of the Tet offensive, said, “If I’ve lost Cronkite, I’ve lost middle America.”

Well, this story isn’t exactly on the same level as that, but President Barack Obama may be losing the Catholic Left, with obvious implications for entrenched faculty on many Catholic college campuses. Michael Sean Winters, a lead writer for the National Catholic Reporter and vocal defender of the University of Notre Dame’s 2009 commencement honors for President Obama, wrote yesterday that he can’t see how he could ever support President Obama again after the administration’s ruling on religious exemptions for the contraceptive mandate.

Winters wrote:

President Barack Obama lost my vote yesterday when he declined to expand the exceedingly narrow conscience exemptions proposed by the Department of Health and Human Services. The issue of conscience protections is so foundational, I do not see how I ever could, in good conscience, vote for this man again.

One must wonder if President Obama might just be saying that if he’s lost the National Catholic Reporter, he’s lost the liberal Catholic vote. As you might remember, Obama won over the majority of Catholics in 2008, albeit mostly wayward Catholics.

Winters makes it clear he does not come at this issue as “an anti-contraception zealot.” In fact, he says plainly he comes at his decision “as a liberal and a Democrat” who defended the University of Notre Dame’s decision to honor the President.

That’s what makes this criticism sting a little more.

I accuse you, Mr. President, of dishonoring your own vision by this shameful decision.

I accuse you, Mr. President, of failing to live out the respect for diversity that you so properly and beautifully proclaimed as a cardinal virtue at Notre Dame. Or, are we to believe that diversity is only to be lauded when it advances the interests of those with whom we agree? That’s not diversity. That’s misuse of a noble principle for ignoble ends.

I accuse you, Mr. President, of betraying philosophic liberalism, which began, lest we forget, as a defense of the rights of conscience. As Catholics, we need to be honest and admit that, three hundred years ago, the defense of conscience was not high on the agenda of Holy Mother Church. But, we Catholics learned to embrace the idea that the coercion of conscience is a violation of human dignity. This is a lesson, Mr. President, that you and too many of your fellow liberals have apparently unlearned.

I accuse you, Mr. President, who argued that your experience as a constitutional scholar commended you for the high office you hold, of ignoring the Constitution.

Besides thinking Obama is constitutionally and morally wrong on this issue, Winters also complains that this action by Obama is just plain ol’ politically stupid and could imperil his presidency and destroy the progressive movement.

Winters seems to think Obama took this action to appease Planned Parenthood and NARAL. Winters wonders if Obama could have actually thought that these folks were going to vote Republican unless he did this? In short, Winters seems to believe that Obama took this action to gain the votes of those who were already voting for him.

Winters seems to feel spurned by Obama as well, saying:

I accuse you, Mr. President, of treating shamefully those Catholics who went out on a limb to support you. Do tell, Mr. President, how many bullets have the people at Planned Parenthood taken for you? Sr. Carol Keehan, Father Larry Snyder, Father John Jenkins, these people have scars to show for their willingness to work with you, to support you on your tough political fights. Is this the way you treat people who went to the mat for you?

Winters makes it clear he won’t be joining the GOP anytime soon but says he won’t be supporting President Obama either.

…as soon as I learned of this decision, I knew instantly that I also could not, in good conscience, ever vote for Mr. Obama again. I once had great faith in Mr. Obama’s judgment and leadership. I do not retract a single word I have written supporting him on issues like health care reform, or bringing the troops home from Iraq, or taking aggressive steps to halt the recession and turn the economy around. I will continue to advocate for those policies. But, I can never convince myself that a person capable of making such a dreadful decision is worthy of my respect or my vote.

We wonder, what does Notre Dame’s Father Jenkins think of all of this?



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bho2012; buyersremorse; catholicvote; religiousleft
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1 posted on 01/22/2012 9:43:01 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Bs. For leftists communists, politics trumps all else.


2 posted on 01/22/2012 9:47:28 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I hope so!
How could a good catholic vote for that immoral creep?


3 posted on 01/22/2012 9:47:28 PM PST by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Are there any Catholics Left?


4 posted on 01/22/2012 9:47:39 PM PST by Rudder (The Main Stream Media is Our Enemy---get used to it.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I certainly hope the Catholics do not vote for this socialist / communist / muslim / anti-christ Obama [man-child] again .... this dud has destroyed this USA


5 posted on 01/22/2012 9:50:04 PM PST by bibletruth
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To: Rudder

“If it impossible to be for abortion and be a Catholic”.

~Father John Corapi.

So these anti-God bigots might call themsleves Catholic, but they’re not. There is no compromise with murder.


6 posted on 01/22/2012 9:50:35 PM PST by NKP_Vet (creep.)
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To: TeĆ³filo; Cronos; wagglebee; dsc; Deo volente; MarkBsnr; Mad Dawg; ArrogantBustard; ...
Let's hope ping.

We must Pray for the conversion or CONFOUNDING of all proponents of the culture of death!

Praying for their confounding is certainly scriptural. (Do a search of the KJV or Douay-Rheims for "confound.")

7 posted on 01/22/2012 9:51:45 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: GlockThe Vote

It could happen, and having a Catholic running against him increases the odds of the Republicans winning the Catholic vote.


8 posted on 01/22/2012 9:52:32 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: ansel12

I am sick of these religious groups. They are liars and frauds. They made a deal w Obama to pass this pofs bill and now should live w the same of their actions.


9 posted on 01/22/2012 9:58:38 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Has Obama Lost the Catholic Left?

He never had them. The "Catholic Left" are Hillary's people - especially the women.

10 posted on 01/22/2012 9:58:56 PM PST by Talisker (Apology accepted, Captain Needa.)
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To: bibletruth

They could care less.


11 posted on 01/22/2012 9:59:29 PM PST by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
I won't discuss politics with my Catholic inlaws. Their politics comes right down from the pulpit, liberal to the core. But hey I also have ‘protestant’ relatives/inlaws, that are just as liberal wearing those WWJD bracelets. Right now it is the ‘mean’ bad Congress that is stopping progress. Deception is hip deep in many Christian churches.
12 posted on 01/22/2012 10:03:39 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: bibletruth
I certainly hope the Catholics do not vote for this socialist / communist / muslim / anti-christ Obama [man-child] again .... this dud has destroyed this USA

Oh, they will. Why would Jews vote for him? They will in the majority. This guy just doesn't understand liberal total indoctrination. They can't but a couple % change. It's like RUSH say, it's in their DNA.

13 posted on 01/22/2012 10:03:39 PM PST by Digger (If RINO is your selection then failure is your election)
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To: Digger

Yes Digger - you’re right and so is Rush - it is in their DNA...sad... really sad they have no discernment at all.


14 posted on 01/22/2012 10:09:48 PM PST by bibletruth
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

As I recall, Madison’s first version of the First Amendment offered a specific protection of liberty of conscience.


15 posted on 01/22/2012 10:11:49 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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To: GlockThe Vote

Well if you like conservatism then you have to like the hard core, right voters, called the Evangelical voters.


16 posted on 01/22/2012 10:11:58 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

I certainly hope so.

The people who voted for Obama were not really Catholics, but only CINOs.

(Catholics In Name Only)


17 posted on 01/22/2012 10:12:51 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: bibletruth
And what about members of other denominations that voted for Obama? Have they changed their minds?

50 percent of Catholics (Catholics make up about 22 percent of the U.S. population.) approve of his presidency, down from 67 percent in his first six months in office.
DOWN 17 POINTS
 
among non-Catholic Christians, who make up 55 percent of the U.S. population, had fallen from 58 percent to 43 percent.
DOWN 15 POINTS
 
Mormon respondents, who represent about two percent of U.S. adults, fell from 43 percent to 26 percent
DOWN 17 POINTS
 
About 78 percent of Muslim respondents approved of the Obama presidency, down eight percentage points from when the question was first asked.  (86)
DOWN 8 POINTS
 
atheists, agnostics, and members of other non-Christian religions, who comprise about 13 percent of the U.S. population -- While about 75 percent of these respondents approved of President Obama at the start of his term, their approval declined to about 64 percent.
DOWN 11 POINTS
 
Jews were the religious group third likeliest to approve of President Obama, giving him 61 percent approval. This too is a decline: in January-June 2009, their approval rating of the president was 77 percent.
DOWN 16 POINTS
 
Overall, 48 percent of Americans approve of President Obama’s job, down from 63 percent in the first months of his presidency. Gallup claims that its survey of over 276,000 adults claims an overall margin of error of plus or minus one percent.
DOWN 15 POINTS


 
 
 
 

18 posted on 01/22/2012 10:15:29 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: bibletruth

I say there is a chance that we win the Catholic vote this time.


19 posted on 01/22/2012 10:16:36 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: bibletruth; GlockThe Vote; Digger
Liberal leftist "catholics" (i.e., dissenting, mostly non practicing, pro-abort, pro-homo etc) may have voted for Obama in 2008, and may or may not vote for him in 2012.

But REAL Catholics (those who actually practice the Faith, go to mass weekly, believe the teachings of Catholicism, are pro-life, pro-family, etc.) did not vote for him in the past and will not do so in the future.

From Alex Murphy's profile page (Alex is NOT an apologist for Catholicism)

2008 Presidential Election demographics, footnoted and annotated
Your "by the numbers" breakdown of the 2008 vote, with emphasis on the religious voter (as of 04/07/09):

xx% McCain, 23% Obama - White Evangelicals age 30-6411
75% McCain, 25% Obama - White7,10 Born Again5,10,12 Evangelicals1,8,10,12
73% McCain, 26% Obama - Evangelical/Born-again Protestant14
xx% McCain, 32% Obama - White Evangelicals age 18-2911
65% McCain, xx% Obama - Weekly church-attending Protestants7
65% McCain, 34% Obama - White Protestants7,8
65% McCain, 34% Obama - White Protestant/Other Christian14
62% McCain, 35% Obama - State of Utah3
59% McCain, 40% Obama - Working-class whites13
57% McCain, 41% Obama - White men13
55% McCain, 43% Obama - Weekly mass-attending Catholics 6,9
55% McCain, 43% Obama - "White voters" 13
55% McCain, 44% Obama - Non-evangelical Protestant14
54% McCain, 44% Obama - Weekly church-goers1,4,7,12
54% McCain, 45% Obama - Protestants6,8
53% McCain, 46% Obama - White women 13
52% McCain, 47% Obama - White "regular-mass-attending" Catholics12
52% McCain, 47% Obama - White Catholic14
51% McCain, 47% Obama - White college graduates13
xx% McCain, 47% Obama - White independent voters13
51% McCain, 49% Obama - White Catholics1,7,11
46% McCain, 52% Obama - Non-Evangelical Protestants 12
46% McCain, 53% Obama - Protestant/Other Christian14
xx% McCain, 53% Obama - Monthly church-goers 4**
44% McCain, 54% Obama - "Young whites"13
45% McCain, 54% Obama - Catholics1,4,6,8,9,10,11,12
45% McCain, 54% Obama - Catholic14
xx% McCain, 59% Obama - Semi-annual church-goers4**
38% McCain, 61% Obama - Occasional churchgoers1
37% McCain, 61% Obama - Non-weekly-mass-attending Catholics6,12
28% McCain, 62% Obama - Other faiths14
30% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanics13****
xx% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanic Catholics8,11**,***, ****
xx% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanic Protestants and other Christians11**, ****
xx% McCain, 68% Obama - Don't attend church4 **
22% McCain, 73% Obama - Other faiths14
23% McCain, 75% Obama - Unaffliliated with any religion11
23% McCain, 75% Obama - Unaffliliated14
21% McCain, 78% Obama - American Jews2,8,12 and other faiths12
21% McCain, 78% Obama - Jewish14**
xx% McCain, 94% Obama - Black Protestants11,13**,****

xx% McCain, 96% Obama - Blacks13**,****


21 posted on 01/22/2012 10:18:23 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: bibletruth; Digger
Obama won the overall religious vote, 52 percent to 46 percent, reversing President George W. Bush’s 51 percent to 48 percent “values voter” victory over Democratic challenger Sen. John Kerry in 2004. Obama also won the Catholic vote, persuaded young evangelical voters to choose him and began to squeeze shut the so-called “God gap” yawning between religious Democrats and Republicans during the Bush era.

How will the roughly 9.1 million evangelical Christians who voted for Obama vote in the next election? Will Obama's actions compel the 31.2 million evangelicals who didn't vote in the 2008 election to vote next time?

Obama Receives 77% of Jewish Vote-- More Than Kerry
White US Catholics move toward GOP, Hispanic Catholics toward Democrats
Among Catholics, Obama job approval rating decreases to 50 percent

22 posted on 01/22/2012 10:20:07 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Yes, people already know the numbers, 54% of the Catholic vote for Obama, about 75% of the Evangelical vote for McCain, and the Democrats their usual, 78 to 80% of the Jewish vote.

But we could win the Catholic vote this time, I believe. We may even make inroads into other liberal groups, like the Jewish vote.

It will be interesting as time goes by, to see how we are faring with Hispanics.


23 posted on 01/22/2012 10:25:16 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Courtesy ping to post #21.


24 posted on 01/22/2012 10:26:09 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Bobalu

I hope so too


25 posted on 01/22/2012 10:28:25 PM PST by ConfidentConservative (If my people shall humble themselves and pray,I will hear from Heaven and heal their land.)
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To: ansel12
54% of the Catholic vote for Obama

That number is meaningless.

This number is the ONLY one that matters:

55% McCain, 43% Obama - Weekly mass-attending Catholics

The rest are CINO - "Catholic" in name only.

26 posted on 01/22/2012 10:29:13 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
Here is a quick look chart.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

27 posted on 01/22/2012 10:30:58 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: bibletruth

My husband has a friend who was a “devout catholic”, and yet still wanted and did vote for Obama. My husband would go back and forth with him over and over regardng O’s abortion policy, and this guy thought that the socials issues trumped abortion.

Apparently now this guy does not want Obama in for a second term. He has not disclosed his reasons, but I’m hoping he is representative of a majority.

The organization Catholic Answers puts out a great book called “The Five Non-Negotiables”. This book really needs to get out there.


28 posted on 01/22/2012 10:31:47 PM PST by diamond6 (Check out: http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/home.php and learn about the faith.)
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To: ansel12

Thanks. (Though that graphic makes my eyes swim for some reason...)


29 posted on 01/22/2012 10:32:53 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp
I think you can safely say that the Catholic Left has lost Obama.

If I'm not mistaken Catholics went 54% to 45% for Obama in 2008.

30 posted on 01/22/2012 10:33:29 PM PST by VideoDoctor
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Actually that was useless, I’m interested in the politics of the Catholic vote, especially since we are importing them by the millions.


31 posted on 01/22/2012 10:34:01 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: Bobalu
How could a good catholic vote for that immoral creep?

From the article:

As you might remember, Obama won over the majority of Catholics in 2008, albeit mostly wayward Catholics.

Must be an awfully lot of "wayward Catholics" since Obama won the majority of Catholic vote the first time around.

32 posted on 01/22/2012 10:34:58 PM PST by Graybeard58 (Eccl 10 v. 19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

They thought they could charm the Kenyan rogue into doing something half decent?

Well like they sometimes say, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on....


33 posted on 01/22/2012 10:38:58 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Sometimes progressives find their scripture in the penumbra of sacred bathroom stall writings (Tzar))
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To: Graybeard58; Bobalu; VideoDoctor
54% of the Catholic vote for Obama

That number is meaningless.

This number is the ONLY one that matters:

55% McCain, 43% Obama - Weekly mass-attending Catholics

The rest are CINO - "Catholic" in name only.

Unfortunately, CINO applies to far too many Americans who label themselves catholic, including far too many members of the USCCB.

34 posted on 01/22/2012 10:40:38 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

It may matter to you for reasons of pride, but for those of us that are interested in politics and the effect that the Catholic vote has had on our nation, and the fact that we are importing Catholics by the tens of millions, we are interested in the Catholic vote, how the members of that single church vote, and as conservatives, how we can keep it from destroying us and our goals as conservatives.


35 posted on 01/22/2012 10:50:44 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: GlockThe Vote

How much less could they care?


36 posted on 01/22/2012 10:57:54 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: ansel12; Dr. Brian Kopp

 and as conservatives, how we can keep it from destroying us and our goals as conservatives.

"I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD

 ETERNAL HOSTILITY

TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN"

"...who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time;"

[snip]

...and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous.. when it is permitted freely to contradict them.

--Thomas Jefferson, 1786

http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/sacred/vaact.html
 
 
Use it or lose it.

37 posted on 01/22/2012 11:04:29 PM PST by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: LomanBill

What was your point, and how does it help us, use what?


38 posted on 01/22/2012 11:08:00 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: Just mythoughts
Deception is hip deep in many Christian churches.

I personally take an admittedly very narrow view in my characterization of what it means to be a Christian. From my standpoint, Conservatism and Christianity are yoked. Consequently, one simply cannot hold liberal views and claim to be a Christian. Liberalism embraces so many evils from abortion to homosexuality to property theft to evolution to feminism that are diametrically opposed to Holy Scripture.

In my particular (church of Christ) congregation of about 300 members, the number of those who voted for Obama was zero.


39 posted on 01/22/2012 11:12:03 PM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: ansel12
Then simply post the stats relevant to this thread:

55% McCain, 43% Obama - Weekly mass-attending Catholics 6,9
52% McCain, 47% Obama - White "regular-mass-attending" Catholics12
52% McCain, 47% Obama - White Catholic14
51% McCain, 49% Obama - White Catholics1,7,11
45% McCain, 54% Obama - Catholics1,4,6,8,9,10,11,12
45% McCain, 54% Obama - Catholic14
30% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanics13****
xx% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanic Catholics8,11**,***, ****
xx% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanic Protestants and other Christians11**, ****

Here's the impact on "politics and the effect that the Catholic vote has had on our nation":

1) The single most important factor regarding how "catholics" vote is whether they attend mass weekly.
2)The same is broadly true among other religious groups. (Due to historical patterns - that have nothing to do with today's political reality & having little to do with moral issues, protestants tend to vote GOP more than Catholics.)
3)For Hispanics, religious affiliation is immaterial to their vote.

40 posted on 01/22/2012 11:12:36 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

For Hispanics their religion does matter, the Republicans won 56% of the Protestant Hispanic vote in 2004, McCain won 48% of their vote in 2008.

The Protestant Hispanic vote is roughly 50/50.

If we could get the Catholic vote to just the level of the Protestant Hispanic vote, it would help us tremendously.


41 posted on 01/22/2012 11:18:48 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: LomanBill
Thomas Jefferson was a Great American, but he was also a child of his era and circumstances:

American Anti-Catholicism has its origins in the Reformation. Because the Reformation was based on an effort to correct what it perceived to be errors and excesses of the Catholic Church, it formed strong positions against the Roman clerical hierarchy and the papacy in particular. These positions were held by most Protestant spokesmen in the colonies, including those from Calvinist, Anglican and Lutheran traditions.

Because many of the British colonists, such as the Puritans and Congregationalists, were fleeing religious persecution by the Church of England, much of early American religious culture exhibited the more extreme anti-Catholic bias of these Protestant denominations. John Tracy Ellis wrote that a "universal anti-Catholic bias was brought to Jamestown in 1607 and vigorously cultivated in all the thirteen colonies from Massachusetts to Georgia."[5] Colonial charters and laws contained specific proscriptions against Roman Catholics having any political power. Ellis noted that a common hatred of the Roman Catholic Church could bring together Anglican and Puritan clergy and laity despite their many other disagreements.

In 1642, the Colony of Virginia enacted a law prohibiting Catholic settlers. Five years later, a similar statute was enacted by the Massachusetts Bay Colony.

In 1649 the Act of Toleration was passed, where "blasphemy and the calling of opprobrious religious names" became punishable offenses, but it was repealed in 1654 and thus outlawing Catholics once again. Puritans condemned ten Catholics to death and plundered the property of the Catholic clergy. By 1692, formerly Catholic Maryland overthrew its Government, established the Church of England by law, and forced Catholics to pay heavy taxes towards its support. They were cut off from all participation in politics and additional laws were introduced that outlawed the mass, the sacraments, and Catholic schools.

In 1719, Rhode Island imposed civil restrictions on Catholics.[6]

Pennsylvania became a safe haven for Catholic refugees from Maryland. William Penn had been harassed as a Quaker, and enacted a broad grant of religious toleration and civil rights to all who believed in God, regardless of their particular denomination. The threat of war between England and France brought about renewed suspicions against Catholics. However, the Quaker government in Pennsylvania refused to be coerced into violating their traditional policies.

Maryland passed an act of religious toleration in 1776.

Another result of anti-Catholicism in the English colonies was that the first constitution of an independent Anglican Church in the country bent over backwards to distance itself from Rome by calling itself the Protestant Episcopal Church, incorporating in its name the term, Protestant.

John Adams attended a Catholic Mass in Philadelphia one day in 1774. He praised the sermon for teaching civic duty, and enjoyed the music, but ridiculed the rituals engaged in by the parishioners.[7] In 1788, John Jay urged the New York Legislature to require office-holders to renounce the pope and foreign authorities "in all matters ecclesiastical as well as civil," which included both the Catholic and the Anglican churches.[8] Thomas Jefferson, referring to Europe, wrote: "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government,"[9] and, "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."[10]


42 posted on 01/22/2012 11:21:20 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Are you going to try to get the political world and polling, to just drop the category of “the Catholic voter” entirely?


43 posted on 01/22/2012 11:21:27 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: ansel12

>>use what?

The 1st amendment right of American Individuals to constitute in their own FREE MIND the relationship, if any, between themselves and their Creator; free from any state establishment thereof.

As opposed to that relationship being a state-mandated establishment concocted by Eunuchs wearing vestigial plumage left over from remnants of the Roman / Egyptian / Babylonian empire’s sun-worshiping cults.


44 posted on 01/22/2012 11:22:10 PM PST by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

Has Obama lost the Catholic vote?

I guess we will never know, evidently there is no such animal, at least not one that can be discussed.


45 posted on 01/22/2012 11:23:43 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: ansel12
Huh?

30% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanics13****
xx% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanic Catholics8,11**,***, ****
xx% McCain, 67% Obama - Hispanic Protestants and other Christians11**, ****

Hispanic protestants voted Obama in the same exact percentage as Hispanic Catholics.
46 posted on 01/22/2012 11:24:23 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: LomanBill

You should start a thread on that, this is a thread about the possibility of Obama losing the Catholic vote this time around.


47 posted on 01/22/2012 11:26:16 PM PST by ansel12 (Romney is unquestionably the weakest party front-runner in contemporary political history.)
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To: ansel12
Are you going to try to get the political world and polling, to just drop the category of “the Catholic voter” entirely?

It is a category devoid of any meaning or worth.

The only relevant category is regular mass going versus not-regular mass going. Pollsters refuse to use those, by and large, because they know that people who were baptized "catholic" but haven't darkened the door step of a Catholic Church in half a century will still self identify as "Catholic" for polling purposes, and that serves their agenda.

48 posted on 01/22/2012 11:28:18 PM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: re_nortex
I personally take an admittedly very narrow view in my characterization of what it means to be a Christian. From my standpoint, Conservatism and Christianity are yoked. Consequently, one simply cannot hold liberal views and claim to be a Christian. Liberalism embraces so many evils from abortion to homosexuality to property theft to evolution to feminism that are diametrically opposed to Holy Scripture. In my particular (church of Christ) congregation of about 300 members, the number of those who voted for Obama was zero.

Unfortunately Christianity suffers from lack of Godly teachers. This nation allowed the secular powers that be rip down the posting of the 10 Commandments in public schools. These same secular powers usurped authority NOT given them and forbid praying in public schools. They gave authority of 'evolution' as the religion that teaches young minds they are offspring of animals. Since then our children have been schooled in all manner of liberalism. It is no surprise that Hollywood's culture of perversion is the beauty of the beast of liberalism.

Now there is nobody going to tell my 'church' going relatives and friends that voting for liberal democrats is against their better interests. The liberalism comes first from the pulpit. The combination of public education and misleading from the pulpits has made too many minds and spines mush void of any real ability to discern where liberalism leads. It is not a pretty picture but by the 'grace' of God I get that tiny glimpse.

49 posted on 01/22/2012 11:34:26 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: Dr. Brian Kopp

>>American Anti-Catholicism has its origins in the Reformation.

Yawn.

Martin Luther didn’t write Morals and Dogma.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=&q=Morals+and+Dogma

The folks who built their house one mile N. of the White Hut and two miles North of the Jefferson Memorial, did.

Their temples are built in the hearts of men.


50 posted on 01/22/2012 11:35:40 PM PST by LomanBill (Animals! The DemocRats blew up the windmill with an Acorn!)
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