I am LDS. I have been for 41 years. Jesus Christ is my personal Savior. He died for me and all of us and our sins on condition that we accept Him as our Savior and follow Him. You can read my testimony of Christ, online at my site. Jesus is my Savior and my Judge and I am so grateful for it...and I am not lieing, and have not been "taught" by my faith to ;ie or decieve in the least...but to follow the Savior of the world...and I am LDS.
I too oppose Mitt Romney because of his liberal stances in the past and because of his institution of RomneyCare...though he was in a very liberal state where 85% of the legislature was dems and they would probably have made what they got even worse if he had not been there. But as it is, it is too much government, even at the state level, and he stands by it in any case...and Santorum is right...Romney will have a much more difficult time differentiating himslf from Obama on this pivotal issue...though his appeal to the 10th is at least an effort.
The talk on this thread that Mormons lie to the world about what they believe...that all 12 million of us have been instructed to, taught to decieve, or fooled, and that Mitt is the anti-Christ and that Mormonism is akin to and like fundamental Islam is rediculous, insulting and, IMHO, almost bigotted driven histeria.
I have been on this forum for almost 14 years. I have worked hard against the liberals, progressives, RINOs, MSM and those who have attacked our nations foundational principles, religious freedom and particularly all of our Christian faith. Read mky article, America at the Crossroads of History.
Many here know me personally, have met me, been to my home or I to theirs, and have worked shoulder to shoulder with me in variouis endeavors...at Liberty Rock in Jarbidge, NV, in the Klamath Basin water crisis in Klamath Falls, OR, against the perverted and altered flag raising monument the liberals tried to raise in New York City after 911, at the March for Liberty in Washington DC, against the dems when they were trying to steal the election from Bush when a bunch of us got together in many places around the country...I was at the State Capitol in Austin, TX, etc., etc.. They have prayed with me and heard me ernestly pray to God in the name of Jesus Christ for our nation and its constitution.
There are few voting block of people who vote more consistantly conservative, more pro-family, more pro-constituion...and whose lives reflect those things than the millions of LDS members in this nation.
That FR of all places would be viewed as a haven for those who would castigate, call liars, demean, and marginalize such a group of people is beyond me and astounding.
Do we have our bad apples in our church and faith? Yes, of course...no large group numbering in the millions could not. Harry Reid is a clear reference...somce of the things Ronmney has done too...but he is nothing like Obama or Reid, not even close by any objective measure, despite all of our misgivings and desire to have a much more conservative nominee.
I wanted Sarah to run and would have supported her whole heartidly. I was then for Cain. Now I am split between Santorum and Newt...though neither of them is perfect either. Newt's infedelity on multiple occassions bothers me, but I take him at his word that he has repented and repudiated that behavior. I would like to hear him repudiate his association with and praise for Alvin Toffler...I hope someone will ask him about that.
Either of those two would be better than Romeny. However, if it comes down to it, and I hope we conservatives can come together and stop it from becoming necessary, but should Romney somehow win the nomination, I will vote for him against Obama.
Obama is an abject marxist and proud of it and doing all he can to destroy the country. I never thought I would see so much damage done in 3-4 years...even after Carter. Another 4 years and we may be over the edge and in abbsolute free-fall.
So I will vote against Obama and do all I can to defeat him.
Again, thank you for your remarks.
I expect there will be significant incoming to me as a result of this...but I cannot let such statements about my faith, my family, and so many of my friends, many of whom have served and sacrificed so much for this nation be villafied without saying something, and without saying thank you to someone who stands against such a tide.
Most of this disgusting clique has done nothing but constantly rag on people of your faith.
You can check their posting history. You, OTOH, are a stalwart in fighting the good fight. There isn't a one of them who would amount to a pimple on your backside.
FWIW, your kind of people were typical of whom I met during the short time I lived in SE Idaho and the reason why it is near the top of my list as a place to find refuge when TSHTF.
You sound like the vast majority of Mormons I have met, whether living in an area with a large LDS population, attending college in Utah, or working for Mormons early in my career, and that is why I’m disappointed in the small cluster of bigots who make these threads go on.
Your umbrage is noted.
You keep making that claim, yet there is no evidence to support it. Please provide the source.
Sorry, Jeff..you will see this statement turned into a lie by the lock-step mormon support and voting for Romney all over the US in the weeks and possibly months to come.
I commend you for saying you do not support him, but hundreds of thousands of your fellow mormons do, not because he is right, but because he is mormon.
How any mormon can support Romney in the face of his vicious, slandering attacks both in the last election and recently and at the same time call himself a conservative is incredible...read "not credible". I think you would best serve the country by preaching at these identity voters about their ignorance of his character rather than preach at those of us who recognize what he is and what he will do.
I feel for you as the days go by and if he is the nominee, you will see the mormon church held up before the nation for what it really is. It will not be pretty.
Jeff, you darn well know that Mormons are NOT taught to be forthright on all kinds of touchy theological matters. There are degrees of deception, Jeff. Allow me to just cite four common tactics in discussions with Mormons...I'm not even trying to be comprehensive about this...'cause I could list these for days & weeks:
Example #1: On becoming gods...Mormons tend to beat around the obvious bush and mention things like becoming "godly" or "christlike" or they use the "heirs" references in the Bible to claim that = becoming gods.
Example #2: On believing/worshiping multiple gods, they suddenly switch to a semi-trinitarian sounding position and trot out a reference to the "godhood" so they can try to maneuver around being seen as polytheists.
Example #3: Mormons say they disagree with polygamy; yet know darn well it's practiced from a Mormon theological perspective every time a widower takes yet another wife to be "sealed for eternity" in their temples...which per Mormon doctrine, would make that man out to be an eternal polygamist! (So, it's "OK" if polygamy is "colonized" on another planet -- and it's "OK" if polygamy is re-instituted on this planet once the Mormon jesus returns...per Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie...but it's not "ok" beyond that? Mormons are hypocrites in this area!)
Example #4: You, Jeff, coupled with oft' Lds-sourced articles will positively reference Christians...or these Lds-sourced articles will tout, "We're Christians, too." Yet for much of Mormon history, to be a Christian was a very negative thing -- and Mormon leaders let that be known. It's still mainstream Mormon doctrine to regard all Christians & their denominations as in apostasy.
Tell us, Jeff, why Mormons then want to become "apostate-Christians, too?" (Is it because you are envious of the "brand?")
Even beyond history -- Mormons can't scrape away extreme negative references toward Christians and Christian churches like Joseph Smith - History vv.18-19 in the Pearl of Great Price...or D&C 1:30...or 1 Nephi 14:9-10 in the Book of Mormon. They can't scrape these things away because they are Mormon "scriptures." Yet no Mormon critiques these references -- letting them stand as is -- and in fact, winds up paying for their dissemination around the world.
In my next post, I'll provide a word picture on this...but, Jeff, the bottom line here is that Christians feel that Mormons will say one thing to their face -- and say something similar as the "PR" version of posts you tend to say on these threads -- all the while believing and slandering Christians in extreme negative ways via your tithe...allowing Lds, Inc. to do all the "dirty work" for you.
Example #5: Lds missionary 'bait & switch' tactics: What do I mean?
Well, a Mormon missionary will lead with the Book of Mormon with contacts. If contacts read such a book, would they discover most of the actual central teachings of Mormonism? Not on your life!
The Book of Mormon has ZILCHO content/teachings about all the "later" developments of Joseph Smith...such as...
* God is a lower-level god who god assigned the "god job" for the Kolob-Earth district
* He was a man who earned his way to godhood; therefore, you can, too
* Temples are for baptizing dead people -- which Mormons hear from time-to-time in those temples (necro-immersing & necromancy)
* Any kind of "pre-existence"
* 3 degrees of glory
* Hell isn't eternal -- damnation just means "damned up"
* Marriage & families are for eternity [imagine the Book of Mormon missing out on that one]
* Sealings & endowments & temple recommends & temple ritual language
* A mom-god or 2 or 3 or a harem of them
Anyway, no wonder there's "misunderstandings" of what Mormonism is! Here they do a bait-and-switch, asking people to pray about stuff that doesn't even record many of their primary teachings!!! It's downright deceptive.
Beyond that, Mormons are rarely forthright about a LOT of their "tucked-away" beliefs:
* A 'mom-god' in heaven
* That spirits and intelligences -- including you and me -- are just as "co-eternal" from the past as God and Jesus!
* Satan is our "elder brother" -- and Jesus' kid brother
* etc. etc etc
In my last post, I referenced in Example #4 a "word picture" that would convey what I meant:
Let's say you're female and 19.
Let's say your fiance was a member of another church in another town.
And say, once a month she would arrive at your home and you'd both proceed to head off to a pre-marital counseling program started by your local Lds bishop.
And let's say that every time your fiance would talk to your family members, she would accumulatively find out what this bishop really thought of her...in fact, she pieced together various comments that your bishop thought she was...
...a "blasphemer..."
...an "apostate..."
..."corrupt..."
..."of Anti-Christ..."
...and her most cherished beliefs were an "abomination"...
...Oh sure, these "comments" weren't usually directed to her one-on-one in her face...
...but accumulatively, from talking with your family members, they would document that these were the exact terms he used...
...and these were just the most common...there were other terms, a few worse...
...and then when she directly confronted the bishop if these things were true, he didn't deny any of them.
Now do you honestly think for a moment, Jeff, that your argument to your "bride"...
...when you persistently failed to defend her before the bishop or before your family members...
...an argument that for every one of these critiques the bishop said of her...
...he happened to say 1,000 things positive about other subjects that nothing that have to do with her...
...is going to give you "brownie points" in her eyes?
Wouldn't that actually make things worse? I mean, if you were right in this instance -- that your bishop doesn't spend the rest of his time downgrading anybody else -- well, doesn't that mean your bride-to-be has been singled out for the harshest treatment that your bishop would dish out upon others?
The "bride to be" in this account is the "Bride of Christ," His church.
The accusations of your leaders are hurled at the bride of Christ, which the apostle Paul said would bring "glory to God THROUGHOUT ALL AGES, FOREVER AND EVER, AMEN." [Ephesians 3:21]
And you defend the bishop in this account, and NOT the honor of the Bride.
Tell us, Jeff, what kind of a bridegroom does that make you? (Especially in her eyes?)
We also don't appreciate, Jeff, how...
...you and other Mormons imply the apostle Paul was a "false prophet" in Eph. 3:21...
...that there was a period of say 1500-1700 years...
...that the church didn't bring glory to God...
...and that those years included the 18th century when this country's founding fathers brought into fruition what you referenced to svcw in post #169:
"...who want America to adhere to and follow the foundational republican values and morals as set forth in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution."....
Shame on you and all true-believing Mormons, Jeff! The Mormon church labels these very founders of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution -- at least the Christians in this grouping -- as "apostates."