True believer: How Mitt Romney... by wearing special Mormon underwear

UK Daily Mail ^ | February 14, 2012 | Graham Smith

[C19fan]

The Mormon faith of presidential candidate Mitt Romney has been one of the hot topics throughout the Republican's campaign. But a recent photo posted on social network website Twitter took speculation about the strength of his religious beliefs to new heights. It shows the GOP nominee wearing an unbuttoned white shirt with his Mormon underwear clearly visible underneath. Also known as a Temple garment, it typically covers the shoulders and extends to the knees, in deference to rules surrounding the Church of the Latter Day Saints' temples.

[Elsie]

...very FAST reloader...

[Elsie]

Dear Elsie, what is the source for this statement? I don't recognize it, nor what the "11" refers to.

Here ya go...

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Here is MORMONism's own creed:

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Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

 

[Elsie]

Ma'am; we are ALLOWING men to worship as they please, but we are ALSO going around from door to door, telling folks that 'christianity' is NOT what they think it is, and ONLY through the wonderful Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saint can they find TRUE SALVATION; and so forth.

[Bigg Red]

While I believe you when you say that Mormonism is a false Christianity, I do not feel threatened by it because I don’t think that they will be attempting to convert by the sword.

Perhaps I am just naive, as the only Mormons I have ever knowingly dealt with are the ones who have knocked on my door. I have always found them to be courteous when I politely tell them the same thing I recall hearing my mother tell the Mormon young men who came to our door, i.e., that I already have my own religion.

I was raised by parents who taught me tolerance, and I tried to instill the same in my own children.

[NorthernCrunchyCon]

Jeff:

For the sake of the argument only, let’s accept that what you say about Brigham Young is correct, namely, that he had nothing to do with the September 11th Mountain Meadow Massacre and that he tried to stop it.

So why did Brigham Young subsequently order the desecration of the victims’ final resting place? Given that all the victims were Christian, why did Brigham Young order the removal of the cedar cross on top of the cairn?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrances_of_the_Mountain_Meadows_massacre
http://1857massacre.com/MMM/replica.htm
http://www.mtn-meadows-assoc.com/

And why has the LDS never restored the final resting place or apologized for the desecration?

[Ancesthntr]

When my Jesus is perverted by a bunch of blasphemous heretics I won’t get off of it ever. I’ve made my mission to expose this deceitful bunch. Now is the perfect time to expose this cult, that is sending souls to hell.

If that's what you feel is your mission in life, fine, I have no argument.

If you feel that NOW is the perfect time to do whatever you feel is appropriate to accomplish that mission, fine, I have no argument.

I do, however, have an argument when you bring religion into politics when one has nothing to do with the other. From my own perspective as a Jew, none of the candidates shares my belief system, so there's frankly no difference between them on this issue - and I'm not looking to make it one, either. Mitt Romney either is, or is not, the best person to be the Republican nominee in 2012. Opinions do vary (I, for instance, do NOT think that he's the best candidate, and I'm doing what I can to defeat him). However, Romney's religion - or any other candidate's religion, for that matter - is utterly irrelevant to the decision about whom to support or oppose right now. I am looking at the records and words of the various candidates and making my decision based on those (relevant) factors. Again, we're not voting for the post of Minister of Morality, we're voting for President.

Please stick to the issue at hand. Religion is a perfectly valid subject to debate (and there are plenty here at FR), but NOT when discussing who is the best candidate for President.

FYI, I strongly suspect that even Romney and his strange (to you) underwear would make a better President than the current guy, who is not Mormon and (to the best of my knowledge) doesn't were strange underwear.

[Ancesthntr]

Kinda hard to do; given the title of this thread:

Yeah, within the context of this thread alone, you're right. However, my intent is to get the entire topic to die of its own irrelevance. I doubt that I'll succeed, but I have to try.

For me, Romney is not the best person to be either the Republican nominee or the President this time around (i.e. given the field of those running), but that has absolutely nothing - zip, zero, nada, niente - to do with his religious beliefs or practices. It has to do entirely with his words and actions over the years.

[Ancesthntr]

So if Romney can be pinpointed as a shepherd of sorts by Prager w/out riling up conservatives, then when we point out other "shepherding" components of Lds bishop Mitt Romney, then you can let that slide, too.

All of that might be true if:

a) I had actually heard Prager say that (or had heard OF him saying that, which I hadn't until now); and

b) I agreed with Prager.

I happen to disagree with Prager on this point (assuming that you're relating his comments accurately, and I have no particular reason to doubt that you did so). Thus, your argument falls apart. Frankly, if Prager said and meant this, then he's not quite so conservative as some people would make him out to be.

I stand by keeping religion out of politics. Both areas have enough problems of their own to solve without involving the other and its host of problems.

[betty boop]

Thank you so much, dear sister in Christ, for providing the cite!

Of course, I notice certain doctrinal differences. But it seems there are always doctrinal differences among creeds. So, do we want to follow the Islamists and declare war on all persons who disagree with us — a la the seemingly endless internal Sunni vs. Shia struggle, not to mention the aggressive, hostile attitude of Islam WRT any other competing religious profession?

This sort of thing (IMHO) is grossly un-American to me — for we have a Constitution that guarantees freedom of religion/conscience. (Which is why Islam is arguably ill-suited to American civil culture: Islam does not recognize this "guarantee" — though it seems very clear that the Church of LDS does.)

It also seems un-Christian to me: We have been directed by our Holy Father in Heaven to love our neighbor as ourself, to do unto others as we would have them do unto us. And I don't think the definition of "neighbor" is limited to our own coreligionists exclusively.

In the end, what other people believe does not affect my relationship with God. If folks want to worship the Easter Bunny, for instance, if that's the best they can do, let 'em do it. Though I may regard this as a fantastically bad decision, it wouldn't affect my faith and trust in God one whit.

But I still have to respect their right of conscience, even if I think they're "wrong": In the end, a man's conscience is a matter between himself and his Maker. And I MUST respect that sacred relationship.

I am reminded of William James' observation: "The art of becoming wise is the art of knowing what to overlook." That is often not a simple matter. But I believe that the statement is true nonetheless.

FWIW. JMHO.

Thanks again, dear Elsie!

[Ancesthntr]

You are right, although a top-notch moral example couldn't hurt!

I agree.

Note, however, that no one is perfect (a design feature, BTW, not a flaw), and the uber-libs in the media will tear apart any person who puts forth a traditionally moral point of view as being a hypocrite simply because they aren't perfect. Yes, that plays on the theological ignorance of most of the population, but that's how they influence elections.

[Jeff Head]

betty, thank you for your kind words.

That statment she quoted is one of the 13 articles of Faith that our church has published as a basic reference for people to know what we stand for. It is number 11. Here are all 13:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 13 Articles of Faith

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

As to being subject to rulers and obeying the law, the Church also has an entire published section on governments and law. It is found in our Doctrine and Covenants Section 134. Many people would find interest in this. Here are the first five potions of that publication:

1 We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society.

2 We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.

3 We believe that all governments necessarily require civil officers and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same; and that such as will administer the law in equity and justice should be sought for and upheld by the voice of the people if a republic, or the will of the sovereign.

4 We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.

5 We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; and that all governments have a right to enact such laws as in their own judgments are best calculated to secure the public interest; at the same time, however, holding sacred the freedom of conscience.

Hope that helps.

[Ancesthntr]

In this case, it’s not about Romney. It is about hatred of Mormon(ISM as the haters call it). There are plenty of valid reasons to ridicule and discount Romney without resorting to zealous hatred. I’m not Mormon, but this is disgusting... I’d prefer to promote the good things Newt can do instead of casting doubt on Romney because of some nutty connection with underwear.

I happen to agree with all of that. Romney isn't the best candidate, IMHO, because of his words and actions over the years. My opinion has literally nothing to do with his religious beliefs or practices. I think that he should and can be defeated because of those...the same as I believe that Obama should and can be beaten on his (horrendous) record, not on the issue of whether he's eligible to be President or not (and, FYI, I don't think that he is).

[cva66snipe]

Look some forget their own religions heritage in this nation or history in this world as a whole it seems and what their ancestors may or may not have done. What's that you say? Why ours were as pure as driven snow. Really? How about coveting someone elses land and stealing it? Making treaties of peace and promptly breaking them. Treating them as enemies when they were here first. It was their land remember? Rounding up literally millions of innocents and putting them into small parcels of land? Need I go on?

I say again this insane CHILDISH Bickering against the LDS especially when this nation was founded by persons so called church members who held witch trials needs too stop. It doesn't make Romney look bad which I'm certain is what is behind these a dozen a day threads. It makes those posting them look like KOOKS!!!!

NOW HEAR THIS! OUR NATION WAS FOUNDED ON THE PRINCIPLE OF FREEDOM TOO WORSHIP! Get over it Howaboutit! Is your faith so weak you must spend hours on FR attacking the faith of others? How Christ like is that?

If you don't want Romney that's fine I don't want him as POTUS either. Argue his political positions and/or his moral wrongs and by that I mean is he a drunk etc? Arguing his religion unless he is a devout Islamic declaring Holy War on U.S. does you, this forum, nor the Conservative movement any favors.

[SZonian]

"Ex- mormons are not mormon haters any more than former addicts hate people still addicted. They hate the drug, the system that delivers it, and the lies they tell on how innocuous it is when in reality it takes everything you have."

Bears repeating, there are many here on FR who think otherwise though.

[esquirette]

“An American Fraud: One Lawyer’s Case against Mormonism” by Kay Burningham, Attorney, is a great read. She holds up the claims of Mormonism against evidentiary rules and concludes as the title states. The intellectual dishonesty of any Mormon is staggering.

[cva66snipe]

Your priorities are skewed if you view temporary goals like revitalizing America as more valid than rebuking false teaching. Eternal lives are at stake. God will demand an account of His believers on whether they worked to advance His Kingdom and not America!

My priorities are fine. GOD, FAMILY, NATION, in that order. One LDS member on this thread professes Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and I believe him. I may not agree with his churches theology, I may not agree with Roman Catholic theology, nor snake handlers, nor charismatics, nor even some of my own Bible Thumping Pew Walking Baptist who think they are the only ones going to heaven also.

These are areas for The Holy Spirit to work in mens hearts and change them. Such corrections have came throughout history and brought us The Protestant Reformation etc.

You strain at the issues of Mormons while other churches who's extreme liberalism are what has driven GOD and Christ from our nation are never mentioned. Look this up. Rev Barry Lynn, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and United Church of Christ, as an example and you tell me which is a bigger danger too this nation. I don't hear Mormons calling for end to public prayer etc. No church is The Church. Every earnest believer who calls on His name is The Church and part of the Church Of Christ.

[MHGinTN]

What many of us --like Elsie the guy-- do in these Mormonism discussions is contend for 'the faith' by various means. Sometimes I do it as forcefully as I can muster, using the virtual 'whip of rebuke'. The rise of antichrist in these last days is facilitated by confusion and deceptions regarding The Christ, the real Savior Jesus. Mormonism is a very clever deception and some of the apologists for this religion, this fake Christianity, are very clever in their postings.

Here's something borrowed from Freeper William Clark, illustrating how one can have faith in 'a' Christ but not the true Savior Christ:

"I always like to use the analogy of Jim Caviezel [In Mel Gibson's 'The Passion of The Christ']. Like the Mormon Jesus, he dressed the part, spoke the same words (in the original language, no less), and was referred to as Jesus Christ within a specific context, but it makes all the difference in the world whether one worships and depends upon him for their salvation or the genuine article."

Just to avoid contention, are Christians ordered to be just fine with the following LDS blasphemies and heretical teaching from Mormonism which are antithetical to Christianity? ...

"We may talk of men being redeemed by the efficacy of his [Christ's] blood; but the truth is that that blood has no efficacy to wash away our sins. That must depend upon our own action." [ LDS Apostle Amasa M. Lyman, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 299, 1859]

"Again, they will try to tell how the divinity of Jesus is joined to his humanity, and exhaust all their mental faculties, and wind up with this profound language, as describing the soul of man, "it is an immaterial substance!" What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.
I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost."
[ LDS Prophet Bingham Young, JoD 1:50-51 April 9, 1852]

Given this mormonic teaching that is the very essence of Antichrist, it is still amazing how much LDS inc apologists want folks to believe LDS inc is Christianity restored! MormonISM is the very essence of slick anti-Christ inveigling, and the promoters of this anti-Christian religion will continue to be exposed and opposed so long as Christians are not squelched by the political correctness approach inherent in the lie that exposing mormonISM is hate or hatred of the people trapped in this demonic cult.

To allow assertions from men like Jeff Head go unopposed on a forum such as FR only facilitates the deeply deceptive antichrist work in MormonISM that diverts attention from THE Christ.

Sorry if some are offended, but that's how I feel about it. And unless I'm banned for continuing to oppose deception which claims to cherish 'a jesus', and is part of a religion which teaches another jesus not The Christ of Whom the Bible speaks, I will continue to oppose this inveigling. You may wish to squelch me as 'intolerant', but Satan will be accompanied for all eternity by victims of 'tolerance'.

[esquirette]

It’s all a matter of perspective. It is not Christ-like to watch someone go over a cliff and say nothing, no matter how earnestly that someone believes he is not going to fall.

Clearly, one’s world view is the foundation for one’s actions. This is why one’s religious affections and associations are of supreme importance in showing us - the voters - the character of the candidate.

One who would bet his eternal soul upon the claims of Joseph Smith, especially after archaeology, history, linguistics, and contemporaneous witnesses have proved him wrong, would not be wise by any definition. We should not trust him.

Therefore, since it was Christ who put such a premium upon truth that He died for it, and was unabashed in telling those around them that they were headed for eternity in hell without repentance, it is entirely Christ - like to provide evidence of the falsity of Mormonism.

[cva66snipe]

And I'm telling you too look at who founded this nation and wrote it's founding documents. So tell me then. Would you vote for any of them? Jefferson, Ben Franklin, or possibly even Washington? They thought Jesus Christ was simply a good man and GOD created the heavens and earth and abandoned it. Yet it was Franklin who also called for prayer before opening of congress. If any of the three were running today would you vote for them?

[Elsie]

What's that Ma'am??

No, we only give up a year or so of our lives doing this.

It's not like we are obsessed or anything.