True believer: How Mitt Romney... by wearing special Mormon underwear

UK Daily Mail ^ | February 14, 2012 | Graham Smith

[Elsie]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/659688/posts

INDEED!

[NorthernCrunchyCon]

Elsie wrote: “I think we have some ‘christian’ MORMONs on FR; but, for whatever reason, they CHOOSE to stay affliated with the proven heresy of MORMONism.”

It’s usually out of their belief that Joseph Smith Jr was a fallen prophet. There are some that believe the Book of Mormon to be true, but that Joseph was later seduced into polygamy and polytheism, for which God struck him down.

[NorthernCrunchyCon]

I’ll respond to everyone at once. Please note I do not believe Joseph Smith Jr or the BoM to be Christian.

“Mormonism never was related to Christianity...”

Originally, it was a revival of certain ancient Christian heresies, before Joseph Smith and Brigham Young became full-blown apostates.

“Joey Smith hated the LORD Jesus Christ and Christians...”

That does not mean all his spiritual descendants today do. Keep in mind there are over 100 different Mormon sects. Not all are like the LDS. Some are making their way, slowly, back to Christianity.

“He wanted to get as far away from Christianity as he could...”

Agreed. But God has touched the hearts of some of his followers.

“He corrupted all 10 of the Commandments ...for instance replacing Thou shalt not commit adultery with the necessity for polygamy to become a god and go to the Mormon idea of an afterlife.”

Agreed. But keep in mind certain groups of followers rejected polygamy and polytheism, and came to believe either than Brigham Young was responsible, or that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet and God struck him dead. So they believe the BoM without believing in polygamy or polytheism.

“Mormonism is a false religion closer to Islam than anything Christians believe...”

No disagreement here when it comes to LDS and Brighamite Mormonism, or Mormonism as Joseph Smith Jr practiced it near the end of his life.

“’. . .there are some branches of Mormonism that have remained or returned to Christianity.’

Then they are not Mormons. Why would they call themselves Mormons?”

Most of them have distanced themselves from the term “Mormon”, which they consider an insult. But still, they accept the BoM as being inspired scripture, while rejecting polygamy, polytheism, blood atonement, secret temple ceremonies, baptism for the dead, and MOST other LDS/ Utah Mormon practices that are unscriptural. So I think it is fair to say that they are Mormons making their was back to Christianity.

[svcw]

http://1857massacre.com/

[svcw]

Learn about mormonism before your defend it.

[svcw]

The beginning of mormonism:
“If the people let us alone, we will preach the gospel in peace. But if they come on us to molest us, we will establish our religion with the sword. We will trample down our enemies and make it one gore of blood…from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean. I will be to this generation a 2nd Muhammad, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Al-Qur’an or the sword.’ So shall it be with us — ‘Joseph Smith or the sword!’ (History of the Church, Vol. 3, p. 167).”
—
Thomas Marsh:
I have heard the prophet say that he should yet tread down his enemies, and walk over their dead bodies; that if he was not let alone he would be a second Mahomet to this generation, and that he would make it one gore of blood from the Rocky Mountains to the Atlantic Ocean; that like Mahomet, whose motto, in treating for peace, was “the Alcoran or the Sword,” so should it be eventually with us, “Joseph Smith or the Sword.”
—
George M. Hinkle
I have heard Joseph Smith, jr. say that he believed Mahomet was a good man; that the Koran was not a true thing, but the world belied Mohamet, as they had belied him, and that Mahomet was a true prophet.
Testimony of George M. Hinkle, Document, 128.

[svcw]

Jesus wasn’t tolerant of false prophets nor blasphemy.
Why are you tolerant of those?
mormonism is blasphemy against God Almighty.

[svcw]

People who defend mormonism without knowing anything about it are boring.
LOL is not a real word.
Romney is who is because of his mormonism not in spite of it.
If you do not learn about mormonism you will not know who Romney is at his core, it is that simple.
place marker

[esquirette]

While the impending repentance appears encouraging, it begs the question of Romney’s belief system. He manifestly believes LDS doctrines.

In light of history, linguistics, archaeology, and common sense, he is intellectually dishonest, therefore, in my view, regardless of what some sects or groups associated with the LDS church may do.

[NorthernCrunchyCon]

Romney is clearly LDS, which is by far the largest branch of Mormonism. Given their polytheistic belief, it is fair to say the LDS are not Christian. Therefore I would not consider Romney a Christian.

[Elsie]

There is NO escaping facts...

"But if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse."

Galatians 1:8

[Elsie]

But still, they accept the BoM as being inspired scripture...

Surely not 'inspired' by GOD.

Other than the fanciful stories of fictious peoples, it is a mish-mash of poorly remembered bible verses.

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MORMON

Chapter 6

The Nephites gather to the land of Cumorah for the final battles—Mormon hides the sacred records in the hill Cumorah—The Lamanites are victorious, and the Nephite nation is destroyed—Hundreds of thousands are slain with the sword. About A.D. 385.

1 And now I finish my record concerning the destruction of my people, the Nephites. And it came to pass that we did march forth before the Lamanites.

2 And I, Mormon, wrote an epistle unto the king of the Lamanites, and desired of him that he would grant unto us that we might gather together our people unto the land of Cumorah, by a hill which was called Cumorah, and there we could give them battle.

3 And it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites did grant unto me the thing which I desired. 

4 And it came to pass that we did march forth to the land of Cumorah, and we did pitch our tents around about the hill Cumorah; and it was in a land of many waters, rivers, and fountains; and here we had hope to gain advantage over the Lamanites.

5 And *when three hundred and eighty and four years had passed away, we had gathered in all the remainder of our people unto the land of Cumorah.

6 And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon, began to be old; and knowing it to be the last struggle of my people, and having been commanded of the Lord that I should not suffer the records which had been handed down by our fathers, which were sacred, to fall into the hands of the Lamanites, (for the Lamanites would destroy them) therefore I made this record out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni.

7 And it came to pass that my people, with their wives and their children, did now behold the armies of the Lamanites marching towards them; and with that awful fear of death which fills the breasts of all the wicked, did they await to receive them.

8 And it came to pass that they came to battle against us, and every soul was filled with terror because of the greatness of their numbers.

9 And it came to pass that they did fall upon my people with the sword, and with the bow, and with the arrow, and with the ax, and with all manner of weapons of war.

10 And it came to pass that my men were hewn down, yea, even my ten thousand who were with me, and I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.

11And when they had gone through and hewn down all my people save it were twenty and four of us, (among whom was my son Moroni) and we having survived the dead of our people, did behold on the morrow, when the Lamanites had returned unto their camps, from the top of the hill Cumorah, the ten thousand of my people who were hewn down, being led in the front by me.

12 And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.

13 And behold, the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.

14 And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Gilgal had fallen with his ten thousand; and Limhah had fallen with his ten thousand; and Jeneum had fallen with his ten thousand; and Cumenihah, and Moronihah, and Antionum, and Shiblom, and Shem, and Josh, had fallen with their ten thousand each.

15 And it came to pass that there were ten more who did fall by the sword, with their ten thousand each; yea, even all my people, save it were those twenty and four who were with me, and also a few who had escaped into the south countries, and a few who had deserted over unto the Lamanites, had fallen; and their flesh, and bones, and blood lay upon the face of the earth, being left by the hands of those who slew them to molder upon the land, and to crumble and to return to their mother earth.

16 And my soul was rent with anguish, because of the slain of my people, and I cried:

17 O ye fair ones, how could ye have departed from the ways of the Lord! O ye fair ones, how could ye have rejected that Jesus, who stood with open arms to receive you!

18 Behold, if ye had not done this, ye would not have fallen. But behold, ye are fallen, and I mourn your loss.

19 O ye fair sons and daughters, ye fathers and mothers, ye husbands and wives, ye fair ones, how is it that ye could have fallen!

20 But behold, ye are gone, and my sorrows cannot bring your return.

21 And the day soon cometh that your mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies which are now moldering in corruption must soon become incorruptible bodies; and then ye must stand before the judgment-seat of Christ, to be judged according to your works; and if it so be that ye are righteous, then are ye blessed with your fathers who have gone before you.

22 O that ye had repented before this great destruction had come upon you. But behold, ye are gone, and the Father, yea, the Eternal Father of heaven, knoweth your state; and he doeth with you according to his justice and mercy.

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Mormon 8:2
And now it came to pass that after the great and tremendous battle at Cumorah, behold, the Nephites who had escaped into the country southward were hunted by the Lamanites, until they were all destroyed.

[Elsie]

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THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI

HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY

CHAPTER 16

The wicked take the truth to be hard—Lehi’s sons marry the daughters of Ishmael—The Liahona guides their course in the wilderness—Messages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to time—Ishmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.

1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.

2 And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken ^ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the ^bguilty taketh the ^ctruth to be hard, for it ^dcutteth them to the very center.

3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might ^awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.

4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.

5 And it came to pass that they did ^ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.

6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the ^avalley which he called Lemuel.

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the ^adaughters of Ishmael to ^bwife; and also, my brethren took of the ^cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also ^dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.

8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the ^acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.

9 And it came to passthat the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his ^ajourney into the wilderness.

10 And it came to passthat as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round ^aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one ^bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.

11 And it came to passthat we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take ^aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.

12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.

13 And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place ^aShazer.

14 And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the ^aRed Sea.

15 And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days, ^aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.

16 And we did follow the ^adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.

17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.

18 And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine ^asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.

19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.

20 And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did ^amurmur against the Lord.

21 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their ^asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.

22 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto ^acomplaining against the Lord their God.

23 And it came to pass I, Nephi, did ^amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my ^bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?

24 And it came to pass that he did ^ainquire of the Lord, for they had ^bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.

25 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly ^achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.

26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.

27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were ^awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.

28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the ^afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.

29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us ^aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by ^bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.

30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the ^adirections which were given upon the ball.

31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild ^abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.

32 And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained ^afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.

33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.

34 And it came to pass that ^aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called ^bNahom.

35 And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did ^amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their ^bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did ^cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.

36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to ^areturn again to Jerusalem.

37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us ^aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our ^bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.

38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that ^aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman ^bstir up their hearts to ^canger.

39 And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did ^achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

 

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[Elsie]

The MOST correct book??

 

 

Just some of the 3000+ changes...

Mosiah 21:28
Original 1830 - "...king Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings;..."
1964 change- "...king Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings;..."

3 Nephi 22:4
1830 -"...for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more."
1981- "...for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more."

I Nephi 12:18
1830 - ...yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and Jesus Christ, which is the Lamb of God... (historical note- Jesus Christ was not revealed to the Nephites until II Nephi 10:3.)
1981 - yea, even the word of the justice of the Eternal God, and Messiah which is the Lamb of God...

[Elsie]

He manifestly believes LDS doctrines.

While this may be true (or not), he definitely does NOT seem to REJECT them.

[cva66snipe]

Gimme a list of this group's CANDIDATES so I can OPPOSE them!

So tell me was Madalyn Murray elected too office? How much damage did she do? You need too learn the true enemy and ones destroying this nation outside of political office via the courts. Look up Americans for separation of church and state. Look up it's director who is also a minister.

There is many things to attack Romney for on issues but you reduce it too a religion bashing WHICH ONLY UNIFIES HIS CHURCH BEHIND HIM BECAUSE YOU ATTACK IT INSTEAD OF HIM ON ISSUES. Can we bash Newt & Santorum because they are Catholic and their church doctrine has many wrong concepts in doctrine as well? Some simular to LDS actually. Somehow that too will just go right over your head.

[NorthernCrunchyCon]

As a Christian, I believe there are deeper problems with the Book of Mormon than its fantastical stories and liberal paraphrasing of certain Bible verses. The biggest one for me is certain passages that suggest the ancient heresy of modalism - that is the belief that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not distinct persons within the One True God, but rather they are the One True God operating according to different “modes” or capacities. For me this is the most troubling aspect of the Book of Mormon which led me to dismiss it as inspired by God, or Holy Scripture.

Having said that, modalism is a far cry from polytheism. And certain smaller Mormon groups that adhere to modalism are in little danger of the polytheism of their larger LDS counterparts (and in fact for years were the only groups publishing apologetics against LDS polytheism). It is also from these smaller non-polytheist Mormon groups, which preserved many of the early Mormon sources, that mainstream Christians have gathered many of the earlier Mormon sources.

I guess what I’m saying is that there are two debates between Christians and Mormons. The one with the wider LDS/Mormon community is over polytheism. Whereas the one with certain smaller branches of monotheistic Mormonism, like the Communities of Christ (former RLDS) and Church of Christ - Temple Lot, is over the authenticity of the BoM and certain understanding of Christology and the Holy Trinity. But I do consider the latter to be Christian, albeit in error.

[cva66snipe]

Matthew 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

I'll tell you what I wasn't going to post this but I will. If some of you were too show up at my door as witnesses I would slam the door in your face. Why? Because you aren't going by Gospel your on a witch hunt. You will not ever lead someone to Christ {BTW I consider Jeff by his confession to be follower of Christ} by bashing what they believe. Use your head. If I wanted to make you a socialist and I came too your door and the first words from my mouth bashed conservatism you would slam the door.

I've known Jeff on this forum since me and him both got here close too the same time. At no point have I ever seen him post giving glory to anyone but GOD and Jesus Christ for the good and the sorrows happening in his life. The mark of a true Christian.

I remember the day he posted his dad had died. A hand full of Mormon bashers wasted not a second even at that point to step in. Christ had compassion He requires compassion from us. Jeff has under went some medical issues which would have likely killed some of us. His healing to whom does he give the glory? Jesus Christ that's who yet for some Pharisees of this day that is still not enough.

I'm a sinner in hope that by faith through Grace there is salvation. I do not have full understanding of The Bible nor claim too. BUT I have seen the works of many churches including Catholic, LDS, Baptist, Church of GOD, and many more whom I have been blessed by their ministry. I don't agree fully with many church doctrines including Baptist in which I was raised. But I don't go around saying they are going to hell either. I have as a matter of fact defended the Catholic church as sternly as I now will defend Christian members of LDS.

I was at a funeral a couple of years ago of a dear aunt. She was basically a shut in for years but every month a sizable portion of her small check went to a certain church. When her death came Father could not drive about 20 miles for the service it was too far. But another Father {her nephew priest} who loved the aunt dearly drove over 400 miles round trip so a priest she knew would do the service.

There were Catholics there, Baptist, LDS, and even a few Mennonites. I watched as one of my cousins could not be consoled as this aunt had been her caregiver all her life. The cousin since birth never walked and this was her grandmother in the coffin. I talked too her and then another family member a cousin came up and talked to her as well. He was raised LDS.

Both myself and my wife have a very special place in our hearts for a small group of Nuns whom guarded her from harm and hid her for three long months. My wife like me is Baptist. When we got married in the chapel at the hospital they were there as was their priest although our minister officiated. I do not have too agree with LDS doctrines not the RC, nor Charismatics to know they are brothers and sisters in Christ.

Most Protestant denominations have their dark past as does Catholics as well. Stealing this nation from whom it rightfully belonged was just one of the wrongs. Of course the churches tried to convert them first then used their rejection of it as part of their excuse to carry out their plot too steal. Granted some churches did but many more did.

I believe that The Holy Spirit leads all too their salvation too whom GOD calls. I believe The Holy Spirit and not any church is the one who leads us too truth. I believe the state of our heart and a willingness to accept the Holy Spirits guidance and truth overcomes mans dogmas. doctrines, church writs.

For whatever reason GOD calls some to be in this or that church. He has His own reasons. I believe if GOD wants someone elsewhere in another church He will use The Holy Spirit placing it on that persons heart to do so. STOP TRYING TO CONVERT BELIEVERS!

Jeff I'm sorry this post got personal into your life. But they need to understand what they do. I can not picture Jesus Christ walking up too a person who suffered a loss and saying such things that were said too you at that time concerning your dad when you said He was with The Lord. That is not the love and compassion of Jesus Christ. Even the Pharisees showed more.

I'm done with the thread. I'm not perfect and don't claim to be. But by GOD's Grace I'm forgiven. GOD have mercy on me a sinner.

[Elsie]

There is many things to attack Romney for on issues but you reduce it too a religion bashing WHICH ONLY UNIFIES HIS CHURCH BEHIND HIM BECAUSE YOU ATTACK IT INSTEAD OF HIM ON ISSUES.

1. I 'reduce' nothing. His religion is icing on the cake.

2. His 'church' is behind him whether I breathe or not.

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In the vast, unwashed crowd of voters who've heard NOTHING about Mitt except what the MEDIA tells them; if MY info manages to somehow cross their path, would it make some think:

1. Dang! If Mitt believes THAT stuff; then I SURE as HECK ain't gonna vote for him; or...

2. Wow! That ELSIE sure is a bad CONSERVATIVE for educating me about Mitt's religion. Is he trying to keep me from voting for Romney??

[Elsie]

I guess what I’m saying is that there are two debates between Christians and Mormons.

I like the third, much easier to understand:

It's a DIFFERENT gospel!