Posted on 02/15/2012 6:27:18 AM PST by C19fan
The Mormon faith of presidential candidate Mitt Romney has been one of the hot topics throughout the Republican's campaign. But a recent photo posted on social network website Twitter took speculation about the strength of his religious beliefs to new heights. It shows the GOP nominee wearing an unbuttoned white shirt with his Mormon underwear clearly visible underneath. Also known as a Temple garment, it typically covers the shoulders and extends to the knees, in deference to rules surrounding the Church of the Latter Day Saints' temples.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Mormons are not Christian. No one said the Founders were deist Christians, and it is wise to note that would be an oxymoron. Though Mormons crave to be accepted as another Christian denomination, in fact, they are polytheists who deny the complete work of Christ. It joined the ranks of the salvation-by-works religions at its inception, and I will say again, that it is based upon a fraud. My only points are set forth above, and if you care to read them with diligence, you will see that I distinguish between being a Christian and holding a Christian worldview. If you choose to prattle on about a pointless exercise in voting for dead dignitaries, you shall continue alone.
So basically you are a universalist who doesn’t care what someone believes as long as they say the right buzzwords, like “LORD”, “SAVIOR”, “CROSS”, or “GOD”. One could tie any meaning that want to with those buzzwords, but according to you that doesn’t matter. If someone called Satan their Savior and used the other buzzwords then that is enough for you....
How mislead you are. There are many people who are very pious and are very sincere in their beliefs, but those beliefs differ from the Truth, which is Jesus Christ. It’s not just belief in something that matters, you have to believe in the Truth.
Because too be honest I don't see anyone to support. The one most likely I would vote for would be Santorum based on his character. Problem is I disagree with him a lot politically. Newt I simply don't trust and see him as simply an opportunist open too the trend of the day. Palin I can agree with politically on most issues but I have a nagging feeling she allowed herself to become a RNC pawn. Ron Paul I also think has his heart in the right place is way too naive on foreign policy and defense. He would have made a decent peace time POTUS.
My state primary is next month. At this point I believe I'll vote for the man most righteous in behavior in his public and political life behavior and let the Lord deal with his political short comings. By that I mean I'll likely vote for Rick. But if a Jefferson stepped up too the plate? I'd vote the Jefferson.
If that floats your boat, fine. I don't need to go there because I am perfectly content with my own standing and experiences in this life regarding my own manhood and do not need your approval or direction in that regard. to bolster it in any way.
I have tried, in the face of your words, to act with civility towards you and explained things as best I can, that were the truth and do represent what we teach. You just interpret them differently.
Well, I have lived in the Church and been a part of it for over 40 years. I have been on this forum for almost 14 years, working for the country and the values. I am happy to let others judge between us on who knows best what we believe...and those on this forum, many of whom know me personally and have stood in the trenches with me...already know about my own integrity and life.
Yet you presume to know better than I, what I myself believe? and what the church I belong to teaches? to the rediculous point of throwing out these accusations about deception and lieing and hypocracy about my own faith?
Well, doc, get a grip and heal thyself.
If you sincerely believe in Christ we teach that you will have the opportunity to accept or reject Christ's truth...all of it. It will be your decision, not someone else's. And it won't just be a passing thing. The Holy Ghost will make that truth known. I believe that...and the New Testament teaches that we can ultimately obtain that truth, and be joint heirs with our Savior. So the fact is if we come to Christ we can come to the full truth on all points of doctrine.
And on that day, if Christ tells me these lesser points of doctrine are wrong (and I say lesser, because compared to Christ's atonement they are...in fact they are meaningless to all of us without His atonement and our acceptance of it)...then I will gladly do whatever He bids me do.
My point in the last post, which you clearly either misunderstood or simply chose to put down, was simple...if you are a true believer in Christ and love Him, then on that day, you too will do whatever He bids you do because you will know Him and He will know His own.
If he tells you the Book of Mormon was a true witness for Christ, you will know it was. If he tells me it was not, then I will know it was not.
In the mean time, please, go about compassionately and with the love of Christ bringing people to Him and I say, God bless you for it. It is far better that they know Christ than not know Him at all. And in the end, He will gather all of His own.
I will go about doing the same...with or without your approval and your own considerations of my manhood or anything else notwithstanding, and bring people to Christ and Him crucified.
Outside of that, as far as I can see, we're done.
Post 180 is my reply. I apply it too my own short comings and failings as well as those of all others.
Well Gee what church denomination do you belong too? I’m certain I can find some fine skeletons too dig up in it too accuse the brethern with. LOL
After all that rambling you still couldn’t state what happens to Christians in the afterlife if they don’t embrace Mormonism. You still use vague terms that don’t get to the heart of the matter. I called you out for complaining that Christians have questioned the eternal life of Mormons when Mormons do the same for Christians.
Mormon doctrine teaches that anyone that doesn’t receive a temple recommend will NOT reach the highest level of paradise, be in communion with Heavenly Father or be able to progress on further. Thus Mormonism is very exclusive in who can be with God in Heaven, yet you get offended with the Christian doctrine of damnation.
Why wouldn’t you speak of your church’s teaching on the afterlife? Mormons follow the milk before meat principle and deliberately hide certain doctrine from non-Mormons. That is deceptive, which as I mentioned, is very typical of mormons.
esquirette wrote: “Mormons are not Christian. [...] Though Mormons crave to be accepted as another Christian denomination, in fact, they are polytheists who deny the complete work of Christ.”
I know what you’re saying here, and I agree with the thrust of it, but the truth is a little more nuanced. Certainly it is true that LDS and other branches of Brighamite Mormonism are not Christian, having opted for polytheism.
However, there are some branches of Mormonism that have remained or returned to Christianity. Keep in mind that the Book of Mormon condemns polytheism, something Christian Mormons have argued in distancing themselves from LDS and other Brighamite Mormons. (Of course I would still disagree with their use of the Book of Mormon as scriptural.) In fact, God used Pauline Hancock, a Christian Mormon, to convert Jerald and Sandra Tanner to Christ from the LDS.
After the Tanner’s became Christian and left the LDS, they spent years with Pauline’s branch of Mormonism that was Christian, albeit with some modalist tendencies. It was only after Pauline’s death that the church - which had never accepted Doctrines & Covenants or Pearl of Great Price - would renounce the Book of Mormon. A few years after that the membership voted to dissolve and meld into local evangelical churches.
I apologize if I am little sensitive on this topic. But like the Tanner’s, I too have been helped by Christian Mormons in the past, both spiritually and academically, and I have always found them honest in their dealings, even with we’ve disagreed.
Oh I see and your church of course is pure simply because Brother, Father, or Elder, So and So says so. Many churches today strayed from the origional truth and are caught up in legalistic dogma, doctories, etc.
One ask favors of the dead instead of Christ as believers were told by Christ to come through Him. Some have ordained the abomination of homosexuality into church leadership. Some think laughing, giggling, rolling in the aisles, speaking in tongues, falling out, handling snakes, you name it makes them more holier than others. What does the Bible say is The Way? I do believe I read the postings of a LDS member in this thread who fulfilled the way to salvation. Not because of any church doctorines but rather the simple required profession of faith.
It's so sad that churches waste all their time and energy trying to convert other believers when their own church may be sinking.
If someone says they believe God is just a cosmic force, or maybe an animal, or maybe an inanimate object, or maybe we’re all God, is that ok with you?
Apparently, doctrine has no value to you, so at what point is a person who claims to believe in some view of God a Christian?
“Not because of any church doctorines but rather the simple required profession of faith.”
Faith in what? Don’t you have to have faith in the correct object of worship? You keep assuming that anyone who uses Christian terminology has the same meaning as traditional Christianity, but that’s not true.
My mind can not comprehend what being GOD is except Creator of heavens and earth as well as Master and Judge of all. GOD created man in His image. Which type? Spiritual, or physical, or both? No one really knows. Moses was only allowed to see His shadow.
GOD created all things creature, man, and earth and He created the laws which govern their existence and boundaries of what they can do, see, hear, feel, taste, and even understanding.
Now just how much are we being allowed too see? What may be right beside us existing yet we are not allowed too see but The Lord can and also created? Science is just beginning to explore that aspect although in a secular way. They refer to it as being a parallel universe. Who knows? Jesus Christ walked on water and through constructed doors I believe that much. Do you know what GOD looks like? IIRC no man who say Him lived to speak of it.
Apparently, doctrine has no value to you, so at what point is a person who claims to believe in some view of God a Christian?
Look to me most doctrines of most churches {EXCLUDING THAT WHICH WE REFER TOO AS THE HOLY BIBLE & IS THE WORD OF GOD caps were for clarification only} are legalistic boondoggles penned by man for man to gain some sort of illicit control over someone else. Many churches have such. By this I mean written church doctrines outside of The Bible. They usually use fear to enforce it. There is not a church in existence with perfect doctrine. None can claim it.
Faith that Jesus Christ has overcame all of my faults, failures, sins, & short comings at the cross once and for all though I am not worthy. Not too mention my lack of understanding of all this creation which leaves me deeper in awe of GOD's love. Christ told us come to Him as a child. Children do not have perfect understanding. Nor do we.
I also agree that God is a mystery, because we are finite beings that can't fully comprehend His infinite attributes. However, I believe you are very mistaken about what Mormonism teaches. You have assumed that just because Mormons use terms that are familiar to Christians that they mean the same as when Christians speak them. That is far from the case.
MormonISM doesn't teach that Jesus Christ overcame all sins. MormonISM teaches that strict obedience to a set of requirements is required to achieve salvation, including abstinence from Caffeine, faithful tithing, active attendance, etc.
MormonISM also doesn't agree that the atonement took place at the Cross. Mormons hate the cross and make no mention of it. They believe the "atonement", which really is limited in practice, happened in the Garden of Gethsemane. MormonISM doesn't meet your criteria for being a Christian, so why did you strongly defend them as being authentic Christians throughout this thread?
Uh the largest and oldest Christian denomination on this earth has many of the same requirements also minus caffeine. One church denomination holds The Lords Supper at least once a week and allows no musical instruments in the church. There are as many variants almost as there are church buildings. Legalisms can not save you nor will they send you too hell. I see them as a huge hindrance personally. But some people seem to need or seek out the rigid path. That goes with most churches.
Post 145 meets my idea of a professed Christian.
You have a compassionate heart, but you neglect to contend for the True Faith. Mormonism is filled with blasphemies that have no place with Christianity.
Mormons teach polytheism and the notion that Jesus is a created being who had to earn his divinity. Mormons reject the power of Christ’s atonement by adding many specific requirements for full salvation. They also promote the unthinkable blasphemy that man may become become a god of his own planet. Those teachings are incompatable with Christianity.
Christians are commanded to rebuke false teachings with the hope that those who are led astray will accept the authentic gospel message. Your premise of unity is dangerous and only discourages those in a false religion, like Mormonism, from accepting the gospel.
I say again many churches come up with their conditional added requirements that many for example believe are needed like purgatory. That certainly says Christ atonement was not sufficent and man must be additionaly {purged} cleansed of sin. No I do not believe in purgatory.
Then there are the Baptism legailist. Ever been hounded by a well meaning zealot who said you are not saved because your preacher said I Baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit instead of saying I Baptize you in the name of Jesus Christ? I had one from which I could not excape. Was he right to continue his trying to convert me? No! But nothing and I do mean nothing short of his preachers way was The Way.
I do believe this though. To those Christ calls His own the gates of hell can not prevail. I see just as serious Theological issues or differences in some other Christian churches. Most of it stems from mis-read scriptures or taking something very literal that was not intended to be.
Most if not 90% of the LDS post on this thread are cut and pasted from some website that hate LDS. I invite all to search their own denomination and see how many websites out there attack it. There are some even devoted to attacking specific Christian Churches and preachers. I'll give you an example. Look up John Hagee. That should stir up a lot of hate site hits. GOD will set all churches on the right and true in His own time.
I feel sorry for persons searching for Christ and reading some of the threads in here. They would look and see that this church says this and the others are wrong and vice versa. What would their reponse be?
It all comes down too these few verses
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it. 18“There is no judgment awaiting those who trust him. But those who do not trust him have already been judged for not believing in the only Son of God. 19Their judgment is based on this fact: The light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20They hate the light because they want to sin in the darkness. They stay away from the light for fear their sins will be exposed and they will be punished. 21But those who do what is right come to the light gladly, so everyone can see that they are doing what God wants.”
And this
38John said to Jesus, “Teacher, we saw a man using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he isn’t one of our group.” 39“Don’t stop him!” Jesus said. “No one who performs miracles in my name will soon be able to speak evil of me. 40Anyone who is not against us is for us. 41If anyone gives you even a cup of water because you belong to the Messiah, I assure you, that person will be rewarded. 42“But if anyone causes one of these little ones who trusts in me to lose faith, it would be better for that person to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around the neck.
As for me? I will leave a Baptist a Baptist, a Catholic a Catholic, and anyone professing Jesus Christ as Lord and savior alone as far as trying toconvert them to another church.
1st Peter ch4 v 7The end of the world is coming soon. Therefore, be earnest and disciplined in your prayers. 8Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love covers a multitude of sins.
I cannot wish those who preach another Gospel "God speed" and thereby become entailed in their teachings (2 John 1:10-11) but I can and do recognize, appreciate and pray for Jeff Head because, as you say, Jeff is a "vigorous, eloquent, able, patriotic, faithful supporter and defender of the Constitution and of our American way of life."
Go for it!
http://www.wesleyan.org/
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