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Spain to send military planes to Florida to collect a half of a billion dollars worth of treasure
NY Daily News ^ | Feb 20, 2012

Posted on 02/22/2012 8:54:50 AM PST by KeyLargo

Spain to send military planes to Florida to collect a half of a billion dollars worth of treasure 17 tons of treasure that U.S. undersea explorers found could be the richest shipwreck treasure in history, experts speculate.

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Monday, February 20, 2012, 6:12 PM

Spain said Monday it will soon send hulking military transport planes to Florida to retrieve 17 tons of treasure that U.S. undersea explorers found but ultimately lost in American courts, a find experts have speculated could be the richest shipwreck treasure in history.

(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: florida; godsgravesglyphs; seized; spain; treasure

Odyssey co-founder Greg Stemm, left, examines coins recovered from the "Black Swan" shipwreck. Treasure is worth an estimated $504 million.

1 posted on 02/22/2012 8:54:57 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

Easy come, easy go.


2 posted on 02/22/2012 8:56:13 AM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: KeyLargo

Lesson to divers:

If you find a treasure of gold and silver, shut your mouth and fire up the smelter.


3 posted on 02/22/2012 8:57:19 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: KeyLargo

The treasure hunters’ equivalent of “shoot, shovel and shut up” should apply to cases like this. Harvest it quietly, dispose of it gradually and discreetly, and keep your darned mouth shut!


4 posted on 02/22/2012 9:00:27 AM PST by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: KeyLargo

Lesson learned.
Hunt.
Dive.
Dig.
Find.
Shut the hell up..............


5 posted on 02/22/2012 9:02:11 AM PST by Red Badger (If you are unemployed long enough, you are no longer unemployed.)
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To: KeyLargo

So, if these “hulking” cargo planes crash into the ocean and someone finds them, does Spain have to refile, or can they use this precedent?


6 posted on 02/22/2012 9:05:51 AM PST by struwwelpeter
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To: KeyLargo

Good deal. Spain gets to keep the treasure without lifting a finger to recover it.

At least the court should have ordered their expenses covered for the salvage operation.


7 posted on 02/22/2012 9:06:44 AM PST by headstamp 2 (Liberalism: Carrying adolescent values and behavior into adult life.)
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To: KeyLargo
Can't this company charge a finders fee, service charge, salvage charge for getting the coins up off the ocean floor?
They would do it to us! Oh wait.... They must be obama’s butt buddy.
8 posted on 02/22/2012 9:07:21 AM PST by baddog 219
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To: headstamp 2

You mean that gold Spain stole from South America?


9 posted on 02/22/2012 9:07:30 AM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: KeyLargo

What a deal. This is all booty Spain plundered from the New World.


10 posted on 02/22/2012 9:08:54 AM PST by 109ACS (If this be Treason, then make the most of it. Patrick Henry, May 1765)
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To: JimRed

Just went back and read the article. The treasure was found off the coast of Portugal (I thought Florida, because that’s the location they’ll be picking it up from).


11 posted on 02/22/2012 9:09:01 AM PST by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: struwwelpeter

Are the discoverers being reimbursed for the cost of retrieving the treasure?

This really sucks.


12 posted on 02/22/2012 9:09:28 AM PST by Reagan69 (I supported Sarah Palin and all I got was a lousy DVD !)
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To: JimRed

Just went back and read the article. The treasure was found off the coast of Portugal (I thought Florida, because that’s the location they’ll be picking it up from).


13 posted on 02/22/2012 9:10:49 AM PST by JimRed (Excising a cancer before it kills us waters the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS, NOW AND FOREVER!)
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To: baddog 219

http://shipwreck.net/pr231.php


14 posted on 02/22/2012 9:11:06 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: JimRed

Yep, I had assumed this was the Mel Fisher haul off the Florida Keys.


15 posted on 02/22/2012 9:11:16 AM PST by dfwgator (Don't wake up in a roadside ditch. Get rid of Romney.)
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To: dfwgator
Actually, this is late enough it may have been Philippine gold shipped across the Pacific to evade European pirates in the Souf' Seas!

The gold was then transported across Mexico or through what is now Columbia and reloaded on ships bound for Europe.

We'll never know ~ but in consideration of the fact this was the PERSONAL POSSESSION of the King of Spain I think the proceeds should be distributed to "the Family"!

16 posted on 02/22/2012 9:12:45 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: SampleMan
Lesson to divers: If you find a treasure of gold and silver, shut your mouth and fire up the smelter.

I have no doubt that pretty much every such salvage operation will follow that course from now on. I bet they all have smelters on board now, so that they will return with nothing but untraceable bullion.

17 posted on 02/22/2012 9:13:01 AM PST by denydenydeny (The more a system is all about equality in theory the more it's an aristocracy in practice.)
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To: SampleMan

February 22, 2012 10:20 AM
Spanish treasure to leave via US military base
TAMPA, Fla. — Leaving nothing to chance, the U.S. military is making sure the transfer of 17 tons of shipwreck treasure to Spain later this week is handled safely.

Officials at Tampa’s MacDill Air Force Base said Tuesday night that they are cooperating with the Spanish government on the transfer of the of 594,000 coins and other artifacts that were wrested away from deep-sea explorers Odyssey Marine Exploration after a nearly five-year legal struggle.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2102-505245_162-57382612.html?tag=contentMain;contentBody


18 posted on 02/22/2012 9:14:43 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

I’m sure the treasure hunters just happened to “lose” a few million worth of gold coins, just in case.


19 posted on 02/22/2012 9:15:41 AM PST by Fresh Wind ('People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook.' Richard M. Nixon)
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To: SampleMan

Local Shipwreck Divers React to Court Ruling for Tampa Treasure Hunting Co.

Video:

http://staugustine.firstcoastnews.com/news/news/73868-local-shipwreck-divers-react-court-ruling-tampa-treasure-hunting-co?odyssey=tab|topnews|bc|large


20 posted on 02/22/2012 9:16:36 AM PST by KeyLargo
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To: KeyLargo

Apparently the Aztecs didn’t file a claim


21 posted on 02/22/2012 9:19:03 AM PST by silverleaf (Funny how all the people who are for abortion are already born)
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To: Fresh Wind
I’m sure the treasure hunters just happened to “lose”

Heck, if I was working that ship I'd have been stuffing a handfull of coins into my pockets every chance I got......

22 posted on 02/22/2012 9:20:18 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (The only solution to this primary is a shoot out! Last person standing picks the candidate)
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To: headstamp 2
Maritime law for centuries: Warships remain the property of the country that owned them, unlike civilian ships, which are subject to salvage.

You would object to someone pulling souvenirs out of the USS Arizona, USS Utah, or any of the American ships at the bottom of Ironbottom Sound off Guadalcanal. Same principle.

They should have contacted the Spanish government before launching the operation, they might have gotten a contract and a fat commission. Now they get nothing.

23 posted on 02/22/2012 9:22:36 AM PST by Cheburashka (If life hands you lemons, government regulations will prevent you from making lemonade.)
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To: SampleMan

I would take it back where I found it and dump it overboard. Let Spain dive for it and bring it back up if they want it so bad.


24 posted on 02/22/2012 9:24:51 AM PST by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: SampleMan

Jesus agrees: “The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.``


25 posted on 02/22/2012 9:27:34 AM PST by bunkerhill7 (hidden treasure - who knew?)
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To: KeyLargo

While Odyssey got bent over and screwed royally in this case, it actually worked to their advantage in the end.

With Spain pitching a bitch and the U.S. basically abandoning them, Odyssey signed a lucrative contract with the British Government to search for and salvage British wrecks. The Brits fund Odyssey’s costs for searching and when something is found those costs are taken off the top of the find and everything else is split 50/50 between Odyssey and the Brits.

Keeps them funded and on the seas, and is a win/win for both parties.

Plus, Odyssey’s successes have also resulted in a History Channel/Discovery TV show for Odyssey — I think it is called Treasure Quest or something like that.

So, in the end this find turned out to be quite fruitful for Odyssey. Plus, anyone who thinks they turned in every coin is very likely fooling themselves.


26 posted on 02/22/2012 9:29:35 AM PST by commish (Freedom tastes sweetest to those who have fought to preserve it.)
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To: JimRed

No, if found off Florida or anywhere near the US, Spain cant recoup crap. They lost the Spanish-American war and all claim to the New World.


27 posted on 02/22/2012 9:32:25 AM PST by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: commish

The problem with Spain claiming all gold is that now everyone will hide their finds; and whatever we might have learned about the ship historically, and whatever artifacts might have been found with it, will be lost.


28 posted on 02/22/2012 9:34:18 AM PST by CondorFlight (I)
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To: Cheburashka

Not entirely correct. The case isn’t over as they salvager now has a claim of pure or merit salvage — the salvage of a ship and it’s cargo without a contract or consent.


29 posted on 02/22/2012 9:40:36 AM PST by Usagi_yo
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To: commish
...With Spain pitching a bitch and the U.S. basically abandoning them...

Abandoned my ass. The US actively worked against Odyssey:

WikiLeaks reveals a secret deal against Tampa's Odyssey Marine Exploration

...The Guardian online found a diplomatic cable in which the American suggested he might be able to help Spain repatriate their coins if they would return a rare painting claimed by an American couple in San Diego...

30 posted on 02/22/2012 9:41:02 AM PST by FReepaholic (Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.)
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To: SampleMan

I agree! Totally!


31 posted on 02/22/2012 9:45:28 AM PST by rawhide
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To: KeyLargo

Our own State Department sided with Spain against the Americans who salvaged this treasure.

They should have thrown it on a boat and dumped it overboard somewhere near the area where they found it.

And let’s not overlook the fact that the Spanish claim of ownership is tainted. After all - they came into possession of the silver and gold by stealing it from the indigenous people of Central and South America.


32 posted on 02/22/2012 9:47:06 AM PST by Iron Munro ("Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight he'll just kill you." John Steinbeck)
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To: KeyLargo
Sam Turner, Director of Archaeology with LAMP, agrees with the ruling......"I think it's pretty clear it's property of the Spanish government," Turner stated Monday......He said it goes back to the concept many countries agreed to keep: sovereign immunity......."That a Spanish vessel would remain a Spanish vessel," Turner explained..... "An American vessel would remain an American vessel... property of the sovereign governments.".....That's true even if another country discovers the shipwreck hundreds of years later.

It appears the contents and the ship belong to whatever nations it was or is....but they should still compensate the company who found and recovered the items.

33 posted on 02/22/2012 9:52:11 AM PST by caww
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To: Cheburashka

Lots of military wrecks were plundered in the North Sea
for scrap metal, including UK warships lost in WWI, HMS Hogue, Abukir and Cressey among them.

Parliament passed a protection act protecting them after the fact.


34 posted on 02/22/2012 10:22:09 AM PST by RitchieAprile
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To: RitchieAprile

That’s the point - they were plundered. Like any thieves, if the plunderers aren’t caught they get away with their crimes. That doesn’t make them anything more than thieves.


35 posted on 02/22/2012 10:53:19 AM PST by Cheburashka (If life hands you lemons, government regulations will prevent you from making lemonade.)
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To: Cheburashka
Maritime law for centuries: Warships remain the property of the country that owned them,

So every galleon and war canoe 500 years out still remains the property of the "State" that owned it? No statute of limitations? No salvage rights?

Kinda silly. But what the he!!. With that statement you just closed down the entire legitimate treasure hunting industry around the world.

36 posted on 02/22/2012 10:54:17 AM PST by HeartlandOfAmerica (Geithner: Taxes on 'Small Business' Must Rise So Government Doesn't 'Shrink')
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To: HeartlandOfAmerica

I’m just explaining why the salvage company lost. If they had worked a deal with the Spanish government before starting the project this would not have happened.

Civilian ships are fair game.


37 posted on 02/22/2012 11:08:26 AM PST by Cheburashka (If life hands you lemons, government regulations will prevent you from making lemonade.)
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To: Iron Munro
Our own State Department sided with Spain against the Americans who salvaged this treasure.

You should be impressed - imagine the income taxes to be Uncle Sugar would have collected off this. Instead they stood by the law as it has been for centuries and get nothing.

After all - they came into possession of the silver and gold by stealing it from the indigenous people of Central and South America.


Indigenous peoples weren't in court. The salvage company was.
38 posted on 02/22/2012 11:19:12 AM PST by Cheburashka (If life hands you lemons, government regulations will prevent you from making lemonade.)
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To: Hot Tabasco; Fresh Wind

Like the guys hired to remodel a house and tore open the ceiling and 497 gold coins fell out. (Recent FR thread)
.
.
There were 3 guys working.


39 posted on 02/22/2012 11:26:26 AM PST by 21twelve
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To: HeartlandOfAmerica

I wouldn’t want salvors plundering USS Indianapolis even 1000 years from now!


40 posted on 02/22/2012 11:54:12 AM PST by RitchieAprile
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To: commish

For those interested in investing:

Odyssey Leads Investors On Treasure Hunt
Posted: Sep 29, 2011 03:00 AM by Stephen D. Simpson, CFA

Sell-side analysts desperate to add a little flair to dry research reports will try to spice things up by talking about “hidden treasure,” “deep dives,” or “plumbing the depths”. Well, there is a company that actually does all of that. Odyssey Marine Exploration (Nasdaq:OMEX) is primarily in the business of finding and salvaging wrecked ships and it may be one of the strangest companies that trades on U.S. exchanges.

Investopedia Markets: Explore the best one-stop source for financial news, quotes and insights.

What They Do
Odyssey Marine operates several simultaneous and overlapping businesses. The core of what the company does is the use of advanced underwater technologies to find, characterize and salvage shipwrecks - often ships from the Age of Sail that sank with ample amounts of gold or silver on board. That is not all that the company does, though. Odyssey Marine also assists in more conventional salvage and recovery operations, conducts deepwater mineral exploration projects, and operates a museum exhibit that highlights some of the artifacts that the company has recovered from shipwrecks.

What’s New
Investors may already suspect that this is a highly news-driven story and they would be right. Unfortunately, this is a story where the news can cut both ways. At present, the company is wrangling in court with the Spanish government over the rightful ownership of the 17 tons of gold and silver coins and artifacts found in the wreckage of the Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes - a Spanish galleon that sank in 1804. Spain has claimed, and U.S. courts have thus far supported, that it was a military ship and therefore protected by law from treasure hunters.

If Odyssey can get a reversal on appeal in its favor, it could be worth upwards of $500 million to the company. That said, maritime and salvage law is complicated and the outcome is uncertain.

On a more positive note, the company has just announced the confirmation of the discovery of the SS Gairsoppa - a British ship that was torpedoed in 1941 carrying 7 million ounces of silver. While the company will be splitting this with the British government (with the Brits getting 20%), the haul could still be worth upwards of $225 million (and possibly more, as collectors will often pay premiums above the metal value for coins or bullion that can be tied to specific ships or wrecks).

A Different Play on Metals
Although there is some value to cannons and other nautical memorabilia, Odyssey is in some ways like a permanently prospecting mining company. That gives it some of the upside in gold and silver prices that investors find in ETFs like SPDR Gold Shares (NYSE:GLD) and iShares Silver Trust (NYSE:SLV), but clearly quite a bit more risk than in those ETFs or conventional miners like Barrick Gold (NYSE:ABX) or Newmont Mining (NYSE:NEM).

There’s also a possible upside kicker from the deep-sea mining angle. Underwater mining is not really a major factor yet in the world, though diamond giant DeBeers does exploit offshore African sediments for diamonds. There is thought to be major potential to find deposits of precious metals and more conventional metals like zinc or cobalt, and while the environmental concerns are very real, and if companies like Neptune Minerals and Nautilus Minerals find some success, maybe major players like Rio Tinto (NYSE:RTP) or BHP Billiton (NYSE:BHP) will look to follow.

Of course, Odyssey Maritime doesn’t have the ocean to itself. Major shipping companies like Maersk have the resources and equipment to run salvage operations as well (though typically with more mundane targets in mind), and insurance companies will frequently contract with private salvage teams to try to locate lucrative wrecks. Moreover, it’s not impossible to imagine that companies like Cal-Dive (NYSE:DVR), Oceaneering (NYSE:OII) or Transocean (NYSE:RIG) could get involved if undersea mining exploration really becomes a meaningful opportunity.

The Bottom Line
Is Odyssey Maritime right for your portfolio? It’s a small company (below $250 million in market cap) with minimal analyst or institutional support and no history of profitability or cash flow generation. At a minimum, it is an extremely risky and speculative play - sure, there are plenty of wrecks out there to salvage, and likely hundreds of millions of dollars of gold and silver laying on the ocean floor, but finding these ships is not easy, recovering the treasure is not easy, and fighting in court for the right to keep it is not easy.

It would be absurd to try to talk about a model or fair value here. This is quite literally an investment in a treasure hunting expedition. Accordingly, it’s a gamble and not an investment. That said, who cares? Investing is certainly a serious and sober endeavor, but there is also room for fun and flights of fancy. So long as people don’t expect a stake in Odyssey Maritime to pay for the kid’s tuition or their retirement, there’s nothing wrong with the occasional punt on a speculative (if somewhat romantic) idea. (For additional reading, take a look at Investing In The Metals Markets.)

http://stocks.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/2011/Odyssey-Leads-Investors-On-Treasure-Hunt-OMEX-GLD-SLV-NEM-ABX-RTP-BHP0927.aspx?printable=1


41 posted on 02/22/2012 1:46:35 PM PST by KeyLargo
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To: dfwgator

Mel Fisher was in court for years before he got to keep the treasure off the Atosha. The Feds will always try to get it from you.


42 posted on 02/22/2012 2:16:04 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Theoria; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...

 GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach
Thanks Theoria. I guess we're having an underwater archaeology week. :')

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.


43 posted on 02/23/2012 7:07:36 PM PST by SunkenCiv (FReep this FReepathon!)
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To: KeyLargo

I’ve been an ocean liner, Ship Wreck, treasure nut since i’ve been ten.

Read a hundred of these stories before.

For every one “treasure” reported i wonder how many don’t.

Look at all of those plastic jugs of coins....
WOW!!

I hope that ship was insured.


44 posted on 02/24/2012 12:02:01 AM PST by mowowie
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To: KeyLargo

Bump, Burp whatever.
Save for tomorrow.

Since the late 70’s i’ve been a big ocean liner, shipwreck nut.
That pic shows A LOT of coins.
WOW.

I’ve read many stories like this over the years.

for every one treasure reported i wonder how many aren’t.
We wouldn’t know, and that’s too bad.


45 posted on 02/24/2012 12:10:53 AM PST by mowowie
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To: KeyLargo

Well, this should shut down the treasure hunters since almost all shipping at the time of the great treasure fleets was owned by the Crown and carried arms and cannon. Hence any vessel could be claimed as a soverign warship.

If I was Odyssey management, I’d spend the dollars necessary for an appeal. The legal cost to profit ratio would seem to warrant it.


46 posted on 02/24/2012 7:41:01 AM PST by wildbill (You're just jealous because the Voices talk only to me.)
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To: KeyLargo

as far as I can tell, the most obvious conclusion is that washington rigged this case.

There is a wikileaks memo from spain where a us diplomat is trying to trade this case off for some artwork in spain someone wanted, before the verdict.


47 posted on 02/24/2012 9:29:34 AM PST by WoofDog123
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To: WoofDog123

Peru says the coins were mined, processed and minted in their country and they lay claim to it.

Of course it was occupied by Spain at the time.


48 posted on 02/24/2012 12:14:05 PM PST by wolfcreek (‘closed eye’ mentality is the reason for our current reality)
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To: KeyLargo

fabulous sunken treasure recovered from a Spanish wreck in the Atlantic Ocean is flying back home from the United States, ending a five-year legal battle.

The treasure was put aboard two Spanish military C-130 planes. They took off Friday from a Florida Air Force base with 595,000 silver coins and other gold aboard. They are expected to land in Madrid’s Torrejon Air Base after a 24-hour flight with two stops on the way — New Jersey and the Azores.

DISCOVERY: A Look at the Black Swan

“Today a journey that began 200 years ago is finally ending. We are recovering a historical legacy and a treasure. This is not money. This is historical heritage,” Spain’s ambassador to the United States, Jorge Dezcallar de Mazarredo, was reported as saying as the planes took off.

Consisting of 18th-century silver coins weighing more than 17 tons, hundreds of gold coins, worked gold and other artifacts, the treasure has been at the center of an acrimonious international legal battle ever since it was discovered in 2007 by underwater robots from Odyssey Marine Exploration, a Florida-based treasure-hunting company.

http://news.discovery.com/history/black-swan-treasure-122402.html


49 posted on 02/25/2012 10:00:11 AM PST by anglian
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