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Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 29 Feb 2012 | Stephen Adams

Posted on 02/29/2012 12:04:23 PM PST by Mount Athos

Parents should be allowed to have their newborn babies killed because they are “morally irrelevant” and ending their lives is no different to abortion, a group of medical ethicists linked to Oxford University has argued.

The article, published in the Journal of Medical Ethics, says newborn babies are not “actual persons” and do not have a “moral right to life”. The academics also argue that parents should be able to have their baby killed if it turns out to be disabled when it is born.

The journal’s editor, Prof Julian Savulescu, director of the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics, said the article's authors had received death threats since publishing the article. He said those who made abusive and threatening posts about the study were “fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society”.

The article, entitled “After-birth abortion: Why should the baby live?”, was written by two of Prof Savulescu’s former associates, Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva.

They argued: “The moral status of an infant is equivalent to that of a fetus in the sense that both lack those properties that justify the attribution of a right to life to an individual.”

Rather than being “actual persons”, newborns were “potential persons”. [...]

The authors therefore concluded that “what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled”.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: abortion; babykillers; babykilling; chooselife; creepy; evil; infanticide; murder; obama; sanger; sick

1 posted on 02/29/2012 12:04:32 PM PST by Mount Athos
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To: Mount Athos

Obama and Sebelious probably agree. Sickos.


2 posted on 02/29/2012 12:07:19 PM PST by KansasGirl
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To: Mount Athos
"Killing babies no different from abortion"

Who honestly didn't know that?

3 posted on 02/29/2012 12:07:50 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (Liberty and Justice for ALL)
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To: Mount Athos

What separates a baby from a fetus? Exposure to air. Otherwise they’re the same thing: a developing human.


4 posted on 02/29/2012 12:08:45 PM PST by Telepathic Intruder (The right thing is not always the popular thing)
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To: Mount Athos
Killing babies no different from letting non-producers die - I say.

So let's drop all entitlement programs now and let ole' Darwin rule the world!

5 posted on 02/29/2012 12:10:25 PM PST by 5thGenTexan
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To: Mount Athos
Parents should be allowed to have their newborn babies killed because they are “morally irrelevant” and ending their lives is no different to abortion, a group of medical ethicists linked to Oxford University has argued.

This is at least an intellectually honest position.

ML/NJ

6 posted on 02/29/2012 12:12:14 PM PST by ml/nj
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To: Mount Athos

The sun is hot. Water is wet.


7 posted on 02/29/2012 12:12:51 PM PST by petercooper (The one difference between Obama & Romney: Obama is only half white.)
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To: Mount Athos

These “unethicists” should be extra-late-term aborted themselves due to their moral-irrelevance.


8 posted on 02/29/2012 12:12:59 PM PST by Sparticus (Tar and feathers for the next dumb@ss Republican that uses the word bipartisanship.)
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To: Mount Athos

I guess it was only a matter of time before some soulless puke jumped to this conclusion.

This proves that there are some really sick people out there.


9 posted on 02/29/2012 12:14:15 PM PST by Jack Burton007 (This is Jack Burton in the Pork Chop Express, and I'm talkin' to whoever's listenin' out there.)
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To: FreeAtlanta

“Killing babies no different from abortion”
Who honestly didn’t know that?

So by applying actual logic to their statement then they are saying that “Abortion is no different than killing babies”.

This insane rambling by mentally disturbed “high academics” is actually a gift from god because it betrays how they really think and feel about the issue.


10 posted on 02/29/2012 12:14:23 PM PST by GraceG
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To: Mount Athos
From the article:

They also argued that parents should be able to have the baby killed if it turned out to be disabled without their knowing before birth, for example citing that “only the 64 per cent of Down’s syndrome cases” in Europe are diagnosed by prenatal testing.

Once such children were born there was “no choice for the parents but to keep the child”, they wrote.

“To bring up such children might be an unbearable burden on the family and on society as a whole, when the state economically provides for their care.”

11 posted on 02/29/2012 12:14:54 PM PST by KansasGirl
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To: Sparticus

Maybe, this is some sick, twisted attempt by the left and their media propagandist to cover for Obama’s promotion of infanticide?


12 posted on 02/29/2012 12:15:19 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (Liberty and Justice for ALL)
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To: Mount Athos
article's authors had received death threats since publishing the article. He said those who made abusive and threatening posts about the study were “fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society”.

If you can kill a baby because you find it objectionable for some reason (due to deformities, red hair, whatever), whats the difference between that and killing a scientist who you find objectionable?
13 posted on 02/29/2012 12:15:46 PM PST by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Mount Athos

“Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say”

That is true. Killing babies includes abortion.

The real issue is the moral stance you take on what is a single issue. Increasingly, the detachment of Western Civilization from Christianity reveals the depravity at the heart of all men. “Experts” no longer have to pretend they share a common set of values with Christians.


14 posted on 02/29/2012 12:17:58 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
He said those who made abusive and threatening posts about the study were “fanatics opposed to the very values of a liberal society”.... and must be ALTA (adult late term aborted) immediately!
15 posted on 02/29/2012 12:20:00 PM PST by FreeAtlanta (Liberty and Justice for ALL)
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To: FreeAtlanta

My thought too. They are right, one is no different from the other.

The right answer is to save life.

This could backfire on them.


16 posted on 02/29/2012 12:20:16 PM PST by SaxxonWoods (....The days are long, but the years are short.....)
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To: Mount Athos
OK, so how old does the "baby" need to be before killing it is no longer considered a crime in Britain???

I do know some "babies" that I'd have liked to "eliminate" but thought they might be a bit over the age limit for a non-crime, so left the situation alone - they are still babies, by the way.

17 posted on 02/29/2012 12:24:35 PM PST by zerosix (native sunflower)
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To: KansasGirl

“To bring up such children might be an unbearable burden on the family and on society as a whole, when the state economically provides for their care.”

18 posted on 02/29/2012 12:25:58 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Mount Athos
Photobucket The Obamanation.
19 posted on 02/29/2012 12:26:36 PM PST by baddog 219
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To: FreeAtlanta

“Killing babies no different from abortion”

I have to agree with that. The instant that the egg and sperm unite it becomes a baby. And murdering a baby is the most horrid of crimes. Now that they admit that it’s a baby in that womb they must come to an understanding of what murder is.


20 posted on 02/29/2012 12:27:05 PM PST by fella ("As it was before Noah, so shall it be again.")
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To: Mount Athos

He is right. In fact, abortion IS KILLING BABIES and should be banned in deference to the unborn babies Constitutional right to life.

But nooooooooo, another commies pushing the envelope of death. You could see this coming in 1974. Give them an inch and they’ll take a mile.

And yes, he is exactly right that killing post-born babies is no different than killing pre-born babies. The only difference is that baby killers can’t look on a fully developed baby and pretend it is not a human being, in the way they can look at a pregnant mothers stomach and pretend there is no human being within it.

Mark my words, technology will someday end accidental pregnancy and the day thereafter, the 50 million abortions of the 20th & 21st Centuries will be seen for the holocaust that it is.


21 posted on 02/29/2012 12:28:38 PM PST by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (The only priority: Repeal Obamacare)
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To: KansasGirl

My fear has been that this would eventually become the norm.

I could see some “brilliant scientific mind” come to the conclusion that “abortion” would be okay up to age 5 and after age 60.

It wouldn’t shock me at all.
Some European countries have already experimented with Government sponsered “suicide” of the elderly.

Sorry, if you’re helping out the death, It’s not “abotion” or “suicide”, that now makes it murder.


22 posted on 02/29/2012 12:31:46 PM PST by GrouchoTex (...and ye shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free....)
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To: KansasGirl
They'd do the killing earlier ~ starting with the parents. Neither one of them like "breeders".

Still, medical ethicists are, for the most part, morally irrelevant and it's OK to kill one of them if he bothers you at the hospital with that stuff.

23 posted on 02/29/2012 12:33:41 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: Mount Athos
With respect to the general point of this UK article, I'd say it is not too late to abort these evil PsOS. And for those who do not fear the Lord, be vigilant in listening very carefully for a loud thud. It will be the sound of our Lord fulfilling His promise of the agony of your defeat.
24 posted on 02/29/2012 12:35:08 PM PST by drypowder
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To: Mount Athos

In the UK, they have abandoned Jesus, wrapped themselves up with atheism, and in return were flooded with Islamic monsters who will kill all atheists as soon as they near 50 percent of the voting population.

Some might call that “ironic”.


25 posted on 02/29/2012 12:36:40 PM PST by Dogbert41 ("...or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. " -Jesus)
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To: Mount Athos
"Killing babies no different from abortion, experts say "

Um... isn't that kind of OUR point? Abortion = killing babies?

26 posted on 02/29/2012 12:41:25 PM PST by Mr. K (Were the Soviet-Era propogandists as gleefully willing as our Lame-stream Media?)
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To: Mount Athos

A baby person is a person!


27 posted on 02/29/2012 12:42:55 PM PST by luvbach1 (Stop the destruction in 2012 or continue the decline)
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To: GrouchoTex
Nederland has done more than experiment with it. They allow extended sedation without hydration ~ and a shot from your doctor if you want.

As Santorum said, that's about 10% of all the deaths in the country every year.

Euthanasia is lawful there. They don't prosecute folks for committing involuntary euthanasia provided you are a doctor.

They claim a low murder rate though.

28 posted on 02/29/2012 12:43:41 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: KansasGirl
...should be able to have the baby killed if it turned out to be disabled...

The term "lebensunwertes leben" immediately springs to mind.

29 posted on 02/29/2012 12:45:37 PM PST by sima_yi ( Reporting live from the People's Republic of Boulder)
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To: KansasGirl
“To bring up such children might be an unbearable burden on the family and on society as a whole, when the state economically provides for their care.”

Kind of like welfare recipients??

30 posted on 02/29/2012 12:45:49 PM PST by Mr. K (Were the Soviet-Era propogandists as gleefully willing as our Lame-stream Media?)
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To: Mount Athos

Killing “experts” no different from any other type of pest control, Citizens say.


31 posted on 02/29/2012 12:50:11 PM PST by Little Ray (FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Mount Athos

These authors (I am using the term loosely) and any other like minded anti-ethicists should be charged and convicted of being “accessaries to murder,” in any future cases where a developing human being is killed. This means up through the teenage years, based upon their own idiotic definition.


32 posted on 02/29/2012 12:51:21 PM PST by Kalam (<: The answer is 42 :>)
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To: muawiyah

Thanks for the info. I had heard that Nederlands had backed off but apparently not. I stand corrected; saddened by the news, but corrected.


33 posted on 02/29/2012 12:59:59 PM PST by GrouchoTex (...and ye shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free....)
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To: Kalam

After having posted this accessary to murder indictment of those idiots, I realized that it would be better if they were charged and convicted in a State that allows capitol punishment.


34 posted on 02/29/2012 1:02:36 PM PST by Kalam (<: The answer is 42 :>)
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To: Mount Athos

This is the Casey Anthony Endowed Chair in Medical Ethics, I take it?


35 posted on 02/29/2012 1:23:22 PM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (Ceterum autem censeo, Obama delenda est.)
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To: Mount Athos

Completely intellectually consistent. I see no fundamental difference between terminating a gestating baby and terminating a born baby.

I’ve read few arguments that so clearly demonstrate how intellectually and morally vapid the pro-abortion position actually is. We should be dropping leaflets from C-130s trumpeting this stuff.

SnakeDoc


36 posted on 02/29/2012 2:15:26 PM PST by SnakeDoctor ("Beware the fury of a patient man." -- John Dryden)
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To: Mount Athos

Well, this was bound to come.

Pro-lifers have been pointing out that killing an unborn child is no different from killing a baby.

Now these guys are pointing out that killing a baby is no different from killing an unborn child.

They deny the first, but defend the second.

They also say that it’s too expensive for the state to bring up defective children. Well, and who asked the state to do that in the first place? The same guys that want to kill them.

Liberal: “I’m a warm, affectionate, caring sort of guy, so I believe there should be free medical care for everyone. Er. Except the handicapped, the unwanted, the sick, the old, and the inferior (not speaking racially, of course).”


37 posted on 02/29/2012 2:24:02 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Maybe along with US Post Office style “Wanted” posters.


38 posted on 02/29/2012 2:25:46 PM PST by Kalam (<: The answer is 42 :>)
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