Skip to comments.Milwaukee police call for concealed-carry changes
Posted on 03/11/2012 11:57:35 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
Milwaukee police are asking state legislators and gun rights activists to back three proposals police say would repair Wisconsin's concealed-carry law - among them: barring people with three misdemeanor convictions in five years from obtaining a concealed-carry permit.
But one of Wisconsin's most prominent gun rights organizations says the proposals are too broad and could make it more difficult for law-abiding people to exercise their constitutional right to defend themselves with guns.
Police say they see three main problems with the existing law, which took effect in November and made Wisconsin the 49th state to allow concealed carry:
First, straw purchases - buying a firearm for someone who is prohibited from possessing a firearm - are a misdemeanor on a state level, not a felony as they are on a federal level.
Second, the requirements for a gun permit ignore the reality of plea bargains. Many habitual criminals legally qualify for, and could obtain, a concealed-carry permit because they were never convicted of a felony for which they were charged.
"Many of our career criminals don't have a felony conviction," explained Joel Plant, chief of staff with the Milwaukee Police Department. "They've been arrested for felonies, they've been charged with felonies, but because of necessity of the criminal justice process - and this is not a disparaging comment on the prosecution process or the judicial process - but because of necessity in our system, a lot of those felonies, many of those felonies, most of those felonies, are pled down to misdemeanor convictions."
Habitual criminals, Plant said, can carry a concealed gun with impunity from a potential of a felony charge unless they fire their guns.
Nik Clark of Wisconsin Carry, a gun rights group, said the problem seems to lie with the criminal justice system ...
(Excerpt) Read more at jsonline.com ...
Wisconsin Concealed Carry — police resistance ping
FReep Mail me if you want on, or off, this Wisconsin interest ping list.
So, these cops think if someone has three speeding tickets on their record they should not be able to get a CCW? Dumb a**es. They can’t stand not being able to play God and decide who gets one and who doesn’t any longer.
Speeding tickets are not misdemeanors. They’re infractions.
I beg to differ. But even if you are correct(which you aren’t in the state of CA), 3 misdemeanors could be any one of many non violent violations. These cops are just pissed about the new law and are grasping at straws to try to pull the teeth on it.
More anti-gun tyranny by cops. To hell with them.
Does anyone think that the individuals with the mis-demeanors plan to carry legally? Why go through the hassle of getting a ccw permit? All that would do is call more attention to themselves. NO?
Joel Plant is a whiny little bitch who doesn’t want to have the police and courts do their jobs.
His first ‘excuse’ about straw purchases being state level misdemeanors vs. federal level felonies is meaningless. The Form 4473 is a federal form. If the purchaser lies on it he/she has committed a felony, period. The state argument is pathetic obfuscation.
His second ‘excuse’ about criminals not having records because of plea bargaining, etc. and being able to buy a gun is just about as pathetic as pathetic can get. If you want them off the street, get the evidence, arrest them and then convict them.
Abridging the rights of LEGAL concealed carry, open carry, or car-carry gun owners because of these two arguments is about as criminal/unconstitutional as I can imagine.
I wonder when the FR jackboot lickers will show up and say that this is only the chief, and that the rest of the police are “on our side?” (in spite of every bit of evidence showing that the police are on the side of repression of the Bill of rights)
It’s not the Chiefs of Police that are out on the street, interfacing with everday citizens - that would be the rank and file police officer. Laws and freedom are ultimately supported or denied at the bottom level of an organization.
Maybe they are concerned the lower crime rates will make sky high police budgets harder to justify?
I agree, but that is what the police worshippers on FR come up with when presented with irrefutable evidence that the police are the enforcement arm of the government, a government which is our primary enemy of freedom.
Then fix the system. Prosecutors prefer dealing with the same chronic criminals over and over, letting them go with a minor plea-bargained "guilty", rather than spend the resources needed to convict them at trial. This is because a conviction is a conviction as far as the prosecutor's record is concerned.
Statistics should be maintained on each prosecutor, showing the number of times somebody commits a crime after having been let go on a plea bargain.
—having gone through all 80-some comments, looks like our side is winning the war of the replies about 10 to 1—
—most annoying to me is that “throw them down” Flynn is still C of P in Milwaukee-—
1. When all is said and done, every police officer just wants to go home in one piece at the end of the day.
2. The pull of peer groups is very strong; it is very, very easy for anyone to adopt a mindset of "us" v. "them".
3. Every police officer wants to keep drawing a paycheck. That factor will loom ever larger when the economic meltdown comes to fruition.
Its the police chiefs who create the policies for no-knock raids and for shooting dogs. It starts at the top.
As do all of us. Police work is not particularly dangerous. Many years it doesn't even make it into the top ten with things like commercial fisherman, electrician, commercial driver, and landscaper being more dangerous.
The pull of peer groups is very strong; it is very, very easy for anyone to adopt a mindset of "us" v. "them"
This seems to me to be a big motivator of police behavior.
...paycheck...Yes, and when your paycheck is like the paychecks of all government employees dependent on how you can game the system to do as much unnecessary stuff as you can to expand your apparent role, you can see a motivation here to keep the peasants supressed.
They want there to be only three classes of people: cops, disarmed "sheep", and people with guns. The latter category, in their mind, should be equivalent to "criminals" and "people we can shoot on sight."
These kind of cops think that as soon as some sheep bleats, "GUN!" that cops should start blasting whoever is holding a gun that is not a cop and not a disarmed sheep.
In turn, I despise these kinds of cops. They are nothing but rights-denying jack-booted thugs.
I was thinking of specific violations of civil rights by individual officers in my state. And those individual officers have to buy into policy for it to take effect.
Where the heck do you live?!
Here in Arkansas, I've never had one (1) LEO tell me they don't want law abiding citizens NOT to have guns. I've heard, and even witnessed myself and others get out of a speeding ticket because "we are one of the "good guys" (who may save their life one day on the side of the road).
Heck LRPD got in trouble by the "brass" for passing out individual CCW instructor information and advising people to get firearms for their self-preservation. Now, they get around that buy carrying the website of the Arkansas State Police Concealed Handgun Instructor site.
Heck even our cops are mandated a class on the Constitution, RKBA, and the Act 419 CCW law in Arkansas either at the academy or during their continuing ed. (or promotion).
Move to a gun-friendly location IMHO.
That's great. I'm glad Arkansas cops are oathkeepers. Unfortunately, that is not yet the case universally here in North Carolina.
I had a Wake Forest cop tell me I had to disarm and sit on the tailgate of my truck at a traffic stop for headlights. There was nothing wrong with my lights; I think he saw my "Don't Tread on Me" sticker and got excited about busting a Tea Party type. As soon as I showed him my conceal permit (required by law here), he immediately got hostile, and wanted me to get out of the truck and disarm. I almost didn't comply, but I did.
I locked the truck and got out. He told me to sit on the tailgate while he ran my license.
He's not the only conceal-carry hating cop I've run into in NC, either. One former police chief essentially told me that it was better if nobody but cops had guns. This from a guy whose son is an NRA instructor and conceal carry holder.