Posted on 03/14/2012 8:06:55 AM PDT by DManA
I will give you a summery of what is being reported by ELISABETH BUMILLER in the NYT this morning.
Panetta made a surprise visit to Afghanistan yesterday. Before he would meet with the soldiers they were ordered to place their weapons outside tent and return unarmed.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Ambrose knew how to sell books.
Some things to consider about MacArthur: * Accepted the medal of honor from Rosevelt for service, not bravery. No precedent for that. Eisenhower was also offered the MoH; but he he turned it down.
What does that prove? Eisenhower was an administrator whereas MacArthur was a combat commander who had already been recommended for a MOH in the Mexican intervention and WWI.
* MacArthur also personally approved a silver star for Congressman Lyndon Johnson, a powerful member of congress during WWII, for being shot at in a plane while in the Pacific theater. Johnson always wore the lapel pin of the silver star though it was clearly undeserved. Again, an unprecedented award of a decoration for heroism for purely political purposes.
There was certainly a political angle but MacArthur was unquestionably brave and may have appreciated the bravery shown by this young Congressman who could have remained safe in Washington but instead chose to navigate hazardous waters and then fly in a mission against an enemy which had it taken LBJ prisoner may have literally made a meal out of him.
* Has last speech to the Corps of Cadets at West Point was such total BS and theatrics.
I attended a meeting once when a man said something far less disparaging and it turned out one of the other men in the room was present for MacArthur's last speech and he had to be physically restrained.
* Doug Mac always had advance teams and propaganda agents working whereever he went. That's one reason soldiers didn't care for him.
Whose soldiers? Certainly navy men didn't care for him because MacArthur felt they were cowards. Marines didn't care for him because he considered them part of the army wrongfully subject to the cowards in the navy.
If you mean by the navy and the left, I would agree.
When fleeing the Phillipines, MacArthur loaded his personal furniture on military transports and left behind Army nurses, who were later captured by the Japanese.
This story is from one of our neighbors when I was a child in the 1950s. He was a former Army officer who survived those terrible years during WWII in the Phillipines. Everytime he mentioned MacArthur’s name, he would spit afterwards.
LOL. Doug looks quite at ease, with hands in pockets.
Just as he always is described when leading trench raids unarmed in WWI or repeatedly exposing himself to fire in WWII. He was without question brave.
Sgt Larry Dekin (Navajo) has his rifle unslung at position of order arms. It's either a Garand or Springfield O3A3.
My guess is because at least three of the men are carrying carbines, the 03A3's would already have been withdrawn and Sgt Dekin is carrying an M1 Garand.
There were originally four PT boats designated to evacuate MacArthur and his staff. Each of the 21 passengers was permitted 35 pounds of personal luggage. MacArthur took nothing. One, possibly two mattresses were taken aboard PT 41 for use by MacArthur's wife, son and nurse during the 35 hour ~550 mile trip across rough seas to Mindanao. To make the journey, each boat was provisioned with an additional 1,000 gallons of gasoline. There was no room or capacity aboard the PT boats for furniture.
and left behind Army nurses, who were later captured by the Japanese.
The nurses were almost all evacuated. I believe a small number did not evacuate but that was because they refused to. One of the two PBY's containing a group of nurses being evacuated from Bataan/Corregidor struck an obstacle on a southern Philippine island and sank. I do not know what became of the people aboard that PBY. My assumption has long been that the men did the chivalrous thing and moved all the nurses onto the one flyable PBY which continued on to Australia.
This story is from one of our neighbors when I was a child in the 1950s. He was a former Army officer who survived those terrible years during WWII in the Phillipines. Everytime he mentioned MacArthur’s name, he would spit afterwards.
Like so many others, your neighbor was sadly misinformed.
LOL! He was there, you were not. There is nothing like spending the entire war as a Japanese POW to fix in one’s mind what happened and how you ended up in that situation.
Your source is tainted.
I seriously doubt your neighbor was standing on the dock as the passengers loaded. Therefore, how would he know what was loaded aboard the PT boats?
There is nothing like spending the entire war as a Japanese POW to fix in one’s mind what happened and how you ended up in that situation.
There is no doubt that news of MacArthur's evacuation had a negative effect on morale. It's also understandable how some in the prison camps would become embittered.
Your source is tainted.
You mean sources. There are numerous independent first hand accounts.
I, and others, who have served in the military too, know that what ends up reported ain’t necessarily what happened.
True but MacArthur's escape from Corregidor is fairly well documented. Surely some eyewitness left behind and having an ax to grind such as Gen. Wainwright would have made some mention of it? Historians would love to have such information...if it was available.
He’s a treasonous, communist animal who has chosen sides with the enemy. Given that, it would be scarey standing up in from of the United States military. He knows what he is and he’s afraid the marines knowk, too.
According to my late father, neither could a lot of his troops.
For those Marines in Afghanistan who might read this, I want you to know something. We are proud of your itchiness. We are proud of you. And more than anything, know that there are those of us here who, like Yamamoto said, “are filled with a terrible resolve.”
You may be 0bama’s hostages to further his agenda. You may be his ploy to demonstrate how warlike he pretends to be here at home. But, for those of you whose eyes sting back tears from sand or humiliation at Panetta and crew’s political ‘correctness,’ know that there will be a price to be paid for every hair on your heads, should something happen to you.
As for the so-called person who ‘had a brain injury’ and went on to kill ‘innocent civilians,’ there are those of us who find it odd that the sequence of events there started with the Koran burnings, the assassinations of some top US military, the dead American servicemen, this event that included ‘innocents,’ the op that failed in blowing the tarmac for Panetta (oops...bad timing there /s) and the disarming of Marines in the presence of supposedly disarmed Afghans. Well, it’s not a stretch to think the ‘innocents’ killed weren’t women and so forth, or, if they were, they might just have been part of a larger effort to do even more damage to the (what was obviously compromised) visit by Panetta the commie.
You all have a safe day. And here’s hoping business is very good indeed. Today and for the foreseeable future.
When MacArthur was Army Chief of Staff, he had no moral qualms about rousting the bonus marchers from their encampment; despite the fact these men were veterans of WWI. In fact, MacArthur put on his full uniform, sam brown belt, medals, and posed in front of his full length mirror to determine his best profile before going out to be photographed taking charge of the operation to remove WW1 vets from D.C.
Also, your justification for MacArthur accepting the MoH is lame and probably goes against the grain of 99% of anyone who ever wore a US Army uniform.
I attended a meeting once when a man said something far less disparaging and it turned out one of the other men in the room was present for MacArthur's last speech and he had to be physically restrained.
I'm a graduate of that same institution. As you go into the mess hall (Washington Hall) through the main doors, you will see large portraits of past superintendents of the academy. MacArthur's is one of the first portraits you will see on the right as you enter. That picture is the quintessential MacArthur pose: haughty and arrogant. Its all well and good to be that way if you are a CEO or something, but it really does not inspire confidence in subordinates or a willingness to obey (see Schofield's definition of discipline - which all USMA cadets have to memorize).
I'll grant you that Doug Mac was brave and competent (he was awarded a DSC in WW1 if i recall correctly). The Inchon landing was risky and brilliant; it was an operational level envelopment with an amphibious assault. As RJS1950 correctly wrote, the planning was done by the MacArthur's G-3. RJS1950 also wrote that Doug Mac would put all the blame on the planners if the operation went wrong. I really can't comment on that. And as Reformedliberal has written, and other anecdotal thoughts from back in the time, I'm pretty comfortable to state that soldiers resented his condescending attitude.
My father’s story was about more than a condescending attitude.
Dad was Army. He was stationed in the Philippines after a tour in Europe. His unit were Engineers. They were building a road, or so they thought, when a group of Filipinos came by, laughing at them. Evidently, there was enough Spanish mixed into the taunts that they were understood by the GIs. The gist was that this was not just a road, but a private driveway leading to property owned by MacArthur. My father got pretty angry and confronted his Lt., saying that he wasn’t there to be Mac’s servant. Finally, my father threw a punch and landed in the stockade for a time. When he got out, turned out his buddies were on his side, even though he knew he shouldn’t have gotten physical with an officer.
There are real roots to a lot of the attitude on the part of the troops, but those anecdotes seem to never have made it to the histories.
Thanks but I'll wait for an Eisenhower thread before stepping through the Ike door.
When MacArthur was Army Chief of Staff, he had no moral qualms about rousting the bonus marchers from their encampment;
And the left will never forgive him for it.
despite the fact these men were veterans of WWI.
If you look into it, the genuine WWI veterans had cleared out and been replaced by assorted communists, anarchists and other rabblerousers of the sort. Not a whole lot different from the current Occupy crowd. The original Occupy group came and went long ago. What's there now are an entirely different lot from those that initially showed up.
In fact, MacArthur put on his full uniform, sam brown belt, medals, and posed in front of his full length mirror to determine his best profile before going out to be photographed taking charge of the operation to remove WW1 vets from D.C.
To what source do we attribute that vignette?
Also, your justification for MacArthur accepting the MoH is lame and probably goes against the grain of 99% of anyone who ever wore a US Army uniform.
How is it lame? It isn't as if he recommended and awarded the MOH to himself. Officers were entitled to receive the award and even civilians had received the MOH.
I'm a graduate of that same institution. As you go into the mess hall (Washington Hall) through the main doors, you will see large portraits of past superintendents of the academy. MacArthur's is one of the first portraits you will see on the right as you enter. That picture is the quintessential MacArthur pose: haughty and arrogant. Its all well and good to be that way if you are a CEO or something, but it really does not inspire confidence in subordinates or a willingness to obey (see Schofield's definition of discipline - which all USMA cadets have to memorize).
He was a 5 star general. Generals and admirals as a group are not known for their humility. Certainly pictures of Gen. Patton don't strike you as those of a humble man do they?
I'll grant you that Doug Mac was brave and competent (he was awarded a DSC in WW1 if i recall correctly).
2 DSC's, 1 DSM, 7 silver stars plus others all in less than one year of fighting in WWI. He was the most decorated American soldier in WWI.
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