i thought warrants were were only good between dawn and dusk...
Posted on 03/15/2012 10:14:05 AM PDT by marktwain
The man shot by Washington County tactical officers in New Columbia Tuesday night had grabbed a gun because he thought intruders were on his property after his wife had checked on their barking dog in their backyard and saw a stranger in dark clothing.
Alberto Flores-Haro, according to relatives and witnesses, did not know that the men surrounding his home and neighborhood Tuesday night were authorities approaching to raid a residence just a few doors down from his home in the 9500 block of North Woolsey Avenue.
"There was someone in our backyard, and my mom called our stepdad," said Daniel Ibarra. "He told me to go upstairs and get the gun."
Ibarra, 17, said he didn't know where it was, and Flores-Haro followed him up the stairs and retrieved it. Ibarra said a stranger came through the home, and left through the front door.
Neighbor Juan Soto Martinez, 16, who lives across a walkway from Flores-Haro's home, said he heard Flores at his front door yelling with a man, who seemed to be outside, on the side of his house. Then, he heard multiple gunshots.
Ibarra found his stepdad collapsed in the front doorway of their home, shot in one arm and twice in the stomach, and called 9-1-1 about 10 p.m.
" I grabbed a rag and put pressure on his forearm," Ibarra recalled, and told his mother to grab a towel from the kitchen and place pressure on Flores' torso wounds.
GS.51SHOT115-02.jpgView full size Ibarra said his family had no idea that the men surrounding their home in tactical uniforms of army green were from the Washington County Sheriff's Office's Tactical Negotiation Team, who were assisting police.
He said of his dad, "I think he just wanted to scare them away. He didn't know who they were."
While his father lay bleeding, Ibarra said he was ordered out of the house.
"Once I stepped outside, I was ordered to get on the ground," said Ibarra, a Roosevelt High School senior.
He said the rest of his family, his mother and four other children from ages 5 and 13, were ordered to get out of the house, and then tactical officers grabbed his stepdad and carried him to a waiting ambulance.
Flores-Haro, 31, remains in serious condition at Legacy Emanuel Medical Center.
In a release this afternoon, Portland police said three members of the Washington County Tactical Negotiations Team were involved in the shooting: one Hillsboro police officer and two Washington County Sheriff's deputies.
While Sgt. Pete Simpson said early today "there was an exchange of gunfire,'' police said later this afternoon that detectives have not determined if Flores-Haro fired any shots at police. Police also said that the officers "repeatedly identified themselves as law enforcement officers.''
"Preliminary information released at the scene was than an exchange of gunfire occurred. However, detectives have been searching for shell casings at the scene, which is lined by a heavily wood area. A handgun was recovered at the scene, but detectives have not determined if the man shot at police.''
Mayor Sam Adams also released a statement: "The City takes incidents such as this very seriously. As with any officer-involved shooting, there will be a thorough investigation and we will make sure every element is examined.''
This morning, Portland police have said only that the man shot by officers had approached police with a handgun as officers were getting ready to serve a search warrant at a nearby, unrelated location.
Simpson said this morning that as police prepared to approach an apartment to execute a search warrant that a man from a nearby apartment emerged with a handgun. Simpson did not know if the man fired first or how many shots officers fired. He said only that "there was an exchange of gunfire." No officer was shot.
Police later in the night did serve a search warrant at a home just doors down from Flores' house on North Woolsey Avenue, and arrested Anthony Bagsby, 20, and Cocoa Tapli, 16, who face accusations of attempted aggravated murder in connection with a Sunday night gang-related shooting and robbery on North Woolsey Avenue.
Portland Lt. Robert King declined to release any more details on the officer-involved shooting. He declined to release the name of the man shot, or explain why police were withholding the name. King also declined to answer whether the tactical officers had identified themselves as police outside Flores' home.
Portland had a mobile command center set up at the site through the night, and left about 10 a.m. today.
Many residents in the neighborhood said they got little sleep after they heard the gunshots. Some reported hearing between four and five, others said six or seven.
Martinez, who lives across from Flores' home, said he was watching TV in his living room, and caring for his younger brothers and sisters because their mom wasn't home at the time.
"I heard like four or five shots," Martinez said. When he looked out his window, "Alberto was laying in the front of his home, bleeding."
Martinez said he told his younger siblings to "get down," and then took them to an upstairs bathroom.
Residents in the area described Flores as a family man and a good neighbor, who worked loading trucks. They described him as in his 30s.
"He's a good neighbor," said Maria Bosyuk, who lives next door to Flores. She said her children heard the shooting and couldn't sleep.
"It sounded like three, then three more" shots, said Michelle Clopton, who lives on North Woolsey Avenue.
As she went to call 9-1-1, she heard police shouting commands to someone on a megaphone."The cops were on a loud speaker, saying 'Come out with your hands up!' Clopton said, who kept peeking out her window.
Another resident who asked not to be named said she was lying in bed when she heard six to seven gunshots. "I grabbed my phone to call police and noticed they were already all outside," she said.
scenephoto.jpgView full sizeMaxine Bernstein/The OregonianHome where Alberto Flores-Haro was shot, pictured far right. Building in foreground is location where tactical officers were readying to raid with a search warrant last night. She said the police orders via megaphone came much later, at least an hour or so: "Come out of the house! Do it now!"
An officer instructed her to stay in the back of her house, she said, and she was worried about the many children in the neighborhood.
"I was sitting in my living room and heard a lot of shots," said Dorine Nafziger, a North Woolsey Avenue resident who lives with her husband and 3-year-old son.
She and her husband went upstairs and looked out their back window.
"We saw the big SWAT tank and a lot of officers in army green suits, helmets and shields," Nafziger said.
She got on Facebook to share information with other neighbors to figure out what was going on. At one point , she said she saw police lead five people from a home in handcuffs.
"It freaks us out," Nafziger said. "It's not the first time something like this has happened in our neighborhood." Sonja Andreas said the gunshots came in what she described as two staccato explosions. Then she said, she heard a lot of yelling and screaming.
She called 9-1-1 and said she was told, "Don't worry, there's a police action happening right now."
But Andreas said she didn't see the usual marked police cars, but a large armored vehicle, and men in what looked like military-type garb.
Tactical teams from Portland, Washington and Clackamas counties routinely rely on each other. Simpson said officers on these teams train with each other and are "fairly interchangeable." Washington County's tactical team is comprised of officers from multiple police agencies and was assisting Portland police last night as Portland's tactical team was in training.
Simpson did not know how many officers fired on the suspect or which agencies they represent.
--Maxine Bernstein
Fixed for accuracy...
I'm glad you noticed that. I just commented on your making a distinction between the two.
A big difference between killing someone, leaving an actual dead body, and someone alleging you attempted to kill someone. This is not even debatable.
yeah, I went to the google map view - it is really hard to tell. Sidewalks leading from the street back to other buildings, but no way of knowing what kind of buildings.
The picture with the article shows a very large building - eithe a very large home, or a multi-family residence. There is what looks like a double-wide entrance door, but there is no way to determine if that is what it is or not.
I’m just spitballing, trying to find some rationale for “walking through the house”.
The reporting is awful - I think the most important part of the whole story, or at least what SOUNDS like the most important part from the reporting, is just tossed out in passing. The reporter should be digging latrines after that article!
Strawman - your argument should be either:
There is a difference between killing someone and trying to kill someone (and I say there is NO moral difference).
OR
There is a difference between killing someone and someone alleging you killed someone.
OF COURSE there is a difference between killing someone and someone alleging you tried to kill someone - but there is a difference between killing someone and someone alleging that you killed someone also.
Either:
1) you understand the point that I’m making and are intentionally using sophistry for whatever purpose you might have.
OR
2) you don’t understand the point I’m making, and you accidently used fallacy to make your point. In which case, I have no further words to clarify my point for you.
Either way, I don’t want to continue this.
Harassment, assault and battery, official oppression... Whatever will stick.
Until they are forced to just stop buying us off via tax payer funded civil claims, and until they suffer personally, this will continue.
” Yes... You should have. People in this situation should also look into criminal charges being filed against those responsible for such blatant SNAFU’s. USC Title 18, Sec 242. Deprivation of Civil Rights under Color of law.
Harassment, assault and battery, official oppression... Whatever will stick.
Until they are forced to just stop buying us off via tax payer funded civil claims, and until they suffer personally, this will continue.”
If I could do it over again, I would! At the time, I had no idea how bad this abuse of power has become. Since then, I have educated myself on just how bad this has gotten. It is now almost an epidemic.
>>More War on Drugs casualties.
>
>Er, more war on murderers, not everything is about drugs, unless your addicted.
He’s actually correct if you’re willing to concede that these no-knock/ninja-warrior raids are the result of the War on Drugs.
got claymores now huh ???
No it isn't
It appears to be.
No it doesn't!
“Come in heavy” is the military way. Overwhelming force. Ask questions later. They learned it in Mosul and Ramadi.
Gangster Government, and Sakharov’s Immunity
http://www.enemiesforeignanddomestic.com/efadGG.htm
Save it for a rainy day.
Oh, no no no. You get shot in this house for that. Or your throat slit in the dark.
No innocent neighbors shot to death or close to it, no stray rounds into the neighbors homes, no citizens hitting the floor from armed commando swat teams opening up in the neighborhood, no command posts, no tanks or armored vehicles, flash bangs, etc.
>What are we judging/punishing, the guys competence or his intent?
While intent should certainly be taken into consideration, there are facts to consider as well; in the case of attempted murder there are no dead bodies, otherwise it would not be an attempt. But the action cannot rightly be divorced from intent, otherwise the little old lady who almost runs you over because she doesn’t see you would be just as culpable of attempted murder as your insane [ex-]girlfriend trying to run you down and only failing because you ran between a few big trees.
i thought warrants were were only good between dawn and dusk...
“How easy and inexpensive would it be with an unmarked car/van conducting surveillance on the suspect location, until he walks out to leave. He’s away from the home, outside the door, with no access to anything inside, and simple put him under arrest, then search the home if a legitimate warrant has been secured.
No innocent neighbors shot to death or close to it, no stray rounds into the neighbors homes, no citizens hitting the floor from armed commando swat teams opening up in the neighborhood, no command posts, no tanks or armored vehicles, flash bangs, etc. “
And miss out on all that FUN?
I thought the original Swat teams were to handle very dangerous criminals, in the most dire circumstances.
Now, they send 10 cops out to arrest a 130 pound runt,break down the door when they can see you are unarmed through the glass, and trash your house, even after they know the perp is not there!!
Then, once you make a monkey out of them, in a fit of desperation, they check your arms for track marks....bunch of child/bozos!!
There it is.
If a judge wanted to abide by the Constitution, he would allow defendants to have factual matters related to the reasonableness and legitimacy of searches put before the jury, and instruct the jury that they should not construe against the defendant any evidence gathered in a search if:
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