Posted on 03/21/2012 2:38:18 AM PDT by RaceBannon
In a special interview with Die Tagespost last week, Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Fouad Twal, named by Pope Benedict to represent the Vatican in the Jewish State, declared that “Israel’s existence as such has nothing to do with the Bible.” He then compared Christians’ condition in today’s Jerusalem with Jesus’ Passion: “We Christians never forget that even our Lord himself suffered and was mocked in Jerusalem.”
Twal's position on Israel and the Bible has been embraced at the highest levels in the Catholic Church. The Vatican synod in 2010 declared that Israel cannot use the Biblical concept of a promised land or a chosen people. “We Christians cannot speak about the Promised Land for the Jewish people”, the synod’s document said. “There is no longer a chosen people. The concept of the promised land cannot be used as a base for the justification of the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of Palestinians.”
That said, there are lots of Catholic priests and even bishops who mouth off here in the US in contradiction to the Pope. The Patriarch was speaking for himself.
this is not a ‘public statement from the Vatican’. It’s an opinion by the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. He speaks for himself, not even for all the people in his Patriarchate.
Quite a few would completely ignore that... they would write articles that perpetrate lies
Surprise, Christian are not Jews. It may by uncomfortable for Jews but Catholic theology holds that the Church is the new Israel and the true heirs to the promises. The old covenants were a foreshadowing and prelude to the New Covenant in Jesus Christ. Anyone familiar with Saint Paul would be aware of this.
This is not to say that God has abandoned the Jews but rather that at the time of our Lord there was a split in Judaism; some Jews accepted Jesus as the Messiah and some did not. To those Jews who did accept Jesus were joined the Gentiles who together form the Church. The covenant of Moses is no longer operative. This God himself has shown when he allowed the Temple to be destroyed and which has not been rebuilt for 2000 years.
As Saint Paul stated, there is no longer Jew and Greek. The path to salvation for the Jews is the same as that for the Gentiles, through Jesus Christ. To insist that Christians recognize the continuing force of the Old Testament covenants apart from the new universal covenant in Jesus Christ is to insist that they cease being Christian.
Fahd speaks his own opinion which in this case is wrong and also ignoring the fate of Christians in Moslem lands. Small-minded twerp.
Actually, I agree with this; except for the bit about "displacement of 'Palestinians,'" that is.
I've been arguing about this with people at my synagogue about the best way to argue for the right of the modern State of Israel to exist. The Bible is nice, but it doesn't convey any legal right or prohibition unless that right or prohibition is imported into a modern legal structure. Suggesting that it has some standing outside of a modern legal context is little different from suggesting that Sharia Law does.
The right of the people in Israel to govern themselves as they do is based upon the right to own and control private property. The land in Palestine was purchased by an assortment of people whom we refer to as Zionists beginning in the late 19th century (when it was mostly desolate) under the laws of the Ottoman Turks who controlled property transfers at that time. These purchases continued under British law after WWI, and now under Israeli law since 1948. The Arabs who didn't sell or abandon their property still have it (or the people they transferred it to do). To be sure some property, including Arab property, has been condemned under eminent domain claims. All governments do this. But the notion of Arabs being forced at gunpoint or similar threat to abandon their property is almost entirely false. Virtually no one has been displaced, unless perhaps they never had any legal claim in the first place. (And except perhaps in PA administered areas like Bethlehem, and there the only Arabs being displaced are Christian Arabs.)
ML/NJ
You'd present a much better case if you could - just once a decade - prove to the membership that you're capable of rubbing two brain cells together.
you are correct. the lands of Israel were purchased legally in modern historic times.
obsessive is the word. For many folks their religion IS being :I slime those kaflix’
This is a very powerful and dangerous MYTH.
Jews and chr*stians may be friends in America, but the world is a big place.
"Patriarch" is not a Catholic title. It is an Orthodox title. This guy is not Catholic. He just has the job of relaying Vatican concerns to Israel. I think he will shortly no longer have the job.
The Pope is Patriarch of the West. And there is indeed a Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem (just as there is a Greek Orthodox and Armenian patriarchate there). Michel Sabbah was the first Arab to fill this position.
Arab chr*stians (and other Middle Eastern chr*stians) are rabidly, fanatically anti-Israel. The only people who don't get this are secular Zionists and American Judaeo-chr*stians.
The historical chr*stian churches have always believed they are the "new Israel" and that the Jews no longer play any special role whatsoever (except perhaps as the "enemies of G-d").
This is not to say that God has abandoned the Jews but rather that at the time of our Lord there was a split in Judaism; some Jews accepted Jesus as the Messiah and some did not. To those Jews who did accept Jesus were joined the Gentiles who together form the Church. The covenant of Moses is no longer operative. This God himself has shown when he allowed the Temple to be destroyed and which has not been rebuilt for 2000 years.
As Saint Paul stated, there is no longer Jew and Greek. The path to salvation for the Jews is the same as that for the Gentiles, through Jesus Christ. To insist that Christians recognize the continuing force of the Old Testament covenants apart from the new universal covenant in Jesus Christ is to insist that they cease being Christian.
A perfect summation of the historical chr*stian attitude, completely unknown to most Americans of all religions.
To insist that Christians recognize the continuing force of the Old Testament covenants apart from the new universal covenant in Jesus Christ is to insist that they cease being Christian.
And yet American Fundamentalist Protestants manage to do so while remaining the "ultimate chr*stians" in the imaginations of most people.
You'd present a much better case if you could - just once a decade - prove to the membership that you're capable of rubbing two brain cells together.
This is a very typical example of the type of argument Catholic FReepers so often engage in. There is no logic, not argument, no response . . . only an ad hominem attack (coupled with the implication of the higher intelligence of Catholics).
One would think that such superior intellects would be capable of shattering opposing arguments with a devastating critique, but no. There is only the "you people are dumb" line that plays like a recording.
Remind you of any other group of people???
Do not let a vocal minority of Fundamentalist Protestants fool you. There are more Christians who hold the historically orthodox view of the relationship between Christians and Jews than you would like.
BTW, showing contempt for Christians by writing it as "chr*stian" is not the way to engender respect for Jews.
Vatican Condemns Israel for Attacks on Lebanon
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1665678/posts
errr... no, not in the imaginations of most people across the world. Far, far from it....
As far as I can see, the relationship between American Jews and Christians is a one way relationship in America and based in the an Evangelical Christian faith different than what was expressed by this Catholic leader.
Evangelical Christians are the most hated and debased of all Christians by the Left which constitutes most American Jews.
the Catholic Church holds that Israel is the priestly people of God, "called by the name of the LORD", and "the first to hear the word of God", the people of "elder brethren" in the faith of Abraham. -- namely that Israel includes BOTH the older faith of the Jewish people who do not accept Christ and the new Israel of Christianity.
Replacement philosophy is a non-Catholic point of view -- we are not a replacement rather a continuation.
err... no -- haven't you been reading about Obama's attacks on the Church? And the New York Times' open advertisement telling people to leave Catholicism because we are against "reproductive rights" i.e. because we are against abortion and contraception....?
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