Posted on 03/21/2012 2:38:18 AM PDT by RaceBannon
In a special interview with Die Tagespost last week, Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem Fouad Twal, named by Pope Benedict to represent the Vatican in the Jewish State, declared that “Israel’s existence as such has nothing to do with the Bible.” He then compared Christians’ condition in today’s Jerusalem with Jesus’ Passion: “We Christians never forget that even our Lord himself suffered and was mocked in Jerusalem.”
Twal's position on Israel and the Bible has been embraced at the highest levels in the Catholic Church. The Vatican synod in 2010 declared that Israel cannot use the Biblical concept of a promised land or a chosen people. “We Christians cannot speak about the Promised Land for the Jewish people”, the synod’s document said. “There is no longer a chosen people. The concept of the promised land cannot be used as a base for the justification of the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of Palestinians.”
ZC is not a Jew. Messianics are rejected by mainstream Judaism
It’s not a beauty contest. The Left hates you, too.
False statement.. the Church does not believe that.. perhaps some non-Catholic fundamentalists in the US may have believed that
yes, that’s why we need to be united on political issues — especially this year.
Further, I HONESTLY don't enjoy pointing this out, but it's simply on objective conclusion on my part that he's not very bright. He's been on a mission to prove that to me for years now.
All that said, has something has changed over the last few years that's given you the idea that I'm interested in your thoughts?
I'm not... still.
What I stated above in not replacement theology. Indeed I stated:
This is not to say that God has abandoned the Jews but rather that at the time of our Lord there was a split in Judaism; some Jews accepted Jesus as the Messiah and some did not. To those Jews who did accept Jesus were joined the Gentiles who together form the Church.You are making the mistake of identifying the Church as other than the true continuation of Israel because the Gentiles have been grafted on to it. As for those Jews who reject Jesus as the Messiah they are only a part of the nation of Israel, not the whole.
the Catholic Church holds that Israel is the priestly people of God, "called by the name of the LORD", and "the first to hear the word of God", the people of "elder brethren" in the faith of Abraham.
This is a statement of historical fact; it does not imply that the covenant of Moses is still operative or that the Jews are not called to the new covenant in Jesus Christ. Indeed the Catechism of the Catholic Church which you quoted continues:
Through the prophets, God forms his people in the hope of salvation, in the expectation of a new and everlasting Covenant intended for all, to be written on their hearts. … "In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son" (Heb 1:1-2).There is today only one covenant in Jesus Christ to which all are called, Jews and Gentiles alike.
serial?
I haven’t posted anything on Catholicism in almost 3 years
But, typical slander like I got before
thanks for being consistent
Anyways, yours is the first comment I am responding to
This is what the Church official said.
All I did was cite the article
there is not any comment from me on this thread except this one when you read it
so, once again, slander
knock it off
All I did was post an article
this is only the SECOND addition that are my words
NONE of the comments are mine in the lead post
and as I explaind starting over 10 YEARS ago, I do NOT believe the RCC is the whore of babylon
so, grow up
This is not about replacement theology or the Vatican’s love of Islam. The Catholic Church must protect Christians as it can. Since the governing class in the west is now anti-Christian, it can expect no support. The only other option in dhimmitude.
I haven’t posted anything on Catholicism in almost 3 years
But, typical slander like I got before
The "who me?" card huh. Semantics. Some "serial" killers go longer than that between kills... they're still serial killers.
The fact remains that anyone who knows you, knows that you are - hands down - one of the most virulent anti-Catholic posters on the site.
Go bounce on something.
True, but look at it both in perspective and in reality -- in perspective, comparing the lives of Christians in israel to the lives of Christians in ANY of the Moslem lands surrounding Israel is stark -- you can't even compare that.
in reality, Christians do not face political or general social discrimination in Israel, they are full citizens with all the rights etc. Yes there are cases of ultra-orthodox getting out of line and the incidents are of spitting or graffiti. 'Israel' as a state treats it's Christians as well as any secular or Christian state does. The Jewish people in Israel in general treat their Christian fellow-citizens as well as Christians in a Christian state do.
The problem is that the media shows extremes and tries to paint all Israelies with the stray incidents of the ultra-orthodox.
If your prospective beliefs, usually acquired from your prospective Churches, are true, you have nothing to fear, because you will find them justified. If not, be ready to change, because reading God's Word with a pure heart cannot help but to change us.
Again, start really reading The Bible. Some do read The Bible, but how much and in what way? Do we read it merely to desperately find support for our own preconceived doctrines or do we read it asking The LORD to show us His truth, no matter what that may be? After we have read it once, we must read it again and again and will be amazed as to how The LORD reveals Himself anew each time we read it.
All this infighting by those who call themselves Christians is not God's will for us. I really believe that if we all start to, and continue to read His Word, we will find agreement, peace and love for each other, and no longer "be at each other's throats".
I was taught that God never promised the Iudeceans (those from the tribe of Judah,who settled in the state of Judea] any land at all. He promised to be with the heirs of Israel not one particular tribe.
And I do not know whether the patriarch was speaking for himself or for the Church and neither do you.
Wrong again
PRO-Bible
Pro-Truth
The Patriarch was speaking for himself. He can’t speak for The Church as a whole, that only the Pope can do — and even then it would be a solemn pronouncement. So, yeah, PapaBear is correct that he knows that the Patriarch was speaking for himself.
The New Testament does NOT teach that Israel is no longer the Jews home
I am so frustrated how many people, (not meaning you, but people in general), just run with an idea without actually reading what the Bible says
An ENTIRE Chapter of Romans is dedicated to stating that God is NOT done with Israel, and when it was written, ISRAEL was still Israel, before the diaspora
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 ( According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen.
The rest of the Bible spells it out, also, God is keeping His promises to Israel
Jer 31:35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts [is] his name:
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Jer 31:37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.
God promised Israel they would ALWAYS be a people before Him forever, and he promised them that land, too!
Num 34:1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
Num 34:2 Command the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land of Canaan; (this [is] the land that shall fall unto you for an inheritance, [even] the land of Canaan with the coasts thereof:)
Num 34:3 Then your south quarter shall be from the wilderness of Zin along by the coast of Edom, and your south border shall be the outmost coast of the salt sea eastward:
Num 34:4 And your border shall turn from the south to the ascent of Akrabbim, and pass on to Zin: and the going forth thereof shall be from the south to Kadesh–barnea, and shall go on to Hazar–addar, and pass on to Azmon:
Num 34:5 And the border shall fetch a compass from Azmon unto the river of Egypt, and the goings out of it shall be at the sea.
Num 34:6 And [as for] the western border, ye shall even have the great sea for a border: this shall be your west border.
Num 34:7 And this shall be your north border: from the great sea ye shall point out for you mount Hor:
Num 34:8 From mount Hor ye shall point out [your border] unto the entrance of Hamath; and the goings forth of the border shall be to Zedad:
Num 34:9 And the border shall go on to Ziphron, and the goings out of it shall be at Hazar–enan: this shall be your north border.
Num 34:10 And ye shall point out your east border from Hazar–enan to Shepham:
Num 34:11 And the coast shall go down from Shepham to Riblah, on the east side of Ain; and the border shall descend, and shall reach unto the side of the sea of Chinnereth eastward:
Num 34:12 And the border shall go down to Jordan, and the goings out of it shall be at the salt sea: this shall be your land with the coasts thereof round about.
Num 34:13 And Moses commanded the children of Israel, saying, This [is] the land which ye shall inherit by lot, which the Lord commanded to give unto the nine tribes, and to the half tribe:
Num 34:14 For the tribe of the children of Reuben according to the house of their fathers, and the tribe of the children of Gad according to the house of their fathers, have received [their inheritance]; and half the tribe of Manasseh have received their inheritance:
Num 34:15 The two tribes and the half tribe have received their inheritance on this side Jordan [near] Jericho eastward, toward the sunrising.
And I admit, I am offended by the immature knee jerk reactions by certain freepers.
I didn’t post this to be about Catholicism.
I posted this about CHRISLAM, something major protestant denominations are involved in, that is why the links I posted at the top are about CHRISLAM, and not the chatechism,
But, I will repeat those links for those who just came to argue, and not read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrislam
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=1366
http://apprising.org/2011/02/22/the-rise-of-chrislam/
but maybe it is necessary to do that right now.
FROM THE CATECHISM:
841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330
The Bible teaches no such thing. Islam denies Jesus is the Son of God, denies He died on the cross for our sins, denies He rose again the third day, denies salvation by Grace Alone, denies Jesus was born of Mary through the Holy Spirit, and denies that Jesus is coming again in the end times to SAVE ISRAEL.
The God of Islam is NOT the God of the Bible.
but the Catechism says He is.
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