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The Goldilocks approach to ammunition bans
St. Louis Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 20 March, 2012 | Kurt Hofmann

Posted on 03/21/2012 5:47:37 AM PDT by marktwain

"This ammunition is too 'toxic.'"

"This ammunition is too capable of defeating police body armor."

As for finding ammunition that will be judged to be "just right," don't hold your breath. There is a renewed push underway to compel the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to ban lead bullets and shotgun pellets. From the New York Times:

Citing risks to birds and to human health, roughly 100 environmental groups formally asked the federal Environmental Protection Agency this week to ban or at least impose limits on lead in the manufacturing of bullets and shotgun pellets for hunting or recreation.

The bans, of course, would not be universal:

The ban sought by environmental groups would not apply to ammunition used by law enforcement and the military.

The lead in government bullets, apparently, is far too well behaved to poison anyone, as private citizens' lead would. That's a good thing, I suppose, given the fact that the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has just ordered up to 450 million (lead-based) .40 caliber pistol rounds.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ammunition; ban; banglist; bloat; crushliberalism; democrats; envirofascism; guncontrol; lead; liberalfascism
The same approach is used with all guns. Handguns are too small or two big, "Saturday night specials are "underpowered", while others are "too powerful" or hold too many bullets.
1 posted on 03/21/2012 5:47:43 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain; harpseal; TexasCowboy; nunya bidness; AAABEST; Travis McGee; Squantos; wku man; SLB; ...
One will note that the same pseudo-science and weasel-words employed in the whole "Climate Change" hoax. The mechanisms that collectivists employ to promulgate their lies all follow a pattern that is readily recognized once you learn it.

Add to that the fact that the cretins pushing this on us lowlies find themselves, as always, exempt from their own rules.

Tells you everything you need to know.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

2 posted on 03/21/2012 5:54:35 AM PDT by Joe Brower (Sheep have three speeds: "graze", "stampede" and "cower".)
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To: marktwain

I’m quite sure I have enough ammo, but it may be time to buy more so I can supply others later.


3 posted on 03/21/2012 6:05:29 AM PDT by Mich Patriot (We can't have economic progress...there is a slug somewhere that needs to be saved. Mich Patriot)
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To: Joe Brower; sickoflibs; stephenjohnbanker
Tells you everything you need to know.

actually, its simpler to remember that the enemy NEVER sleeps, and will NEVER abide by 'live and let live'...

while we attempt to make ends meet, they continually, like little perpetual motion machines, grind away on every issue, from every angle, every day, financed by power peoples money, whose goal is only to take our money, power and FReedom...

sooner or later theyll shop an idea to the right judge or politi-animal and then we have to fight uphill...again...

4 posted on 03/21/2012 6:11:10 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Joe Brower

Everybody needs a CZ-52 and plenty of ammo. Dirt cheap for a fine blaster and enough ammo for anything coming our way. The .30 caliber 90gr hardball at 1,600fps is particulary effective against thick-skinned beasts. The hollowpoints expand to 60 caliber. Get the pistol and ammo now while they are almost being given away.

5 posted on 03/21/2012 6:14:47 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: marktwain

Sheesh, us (multiple expelatives deleted) shooters are puting LEAD into the ground. How horrible.

(Would someone please tell these people where lead comes from?)


6 posted on 03/21/2012 6:17:47 AM PDT by CPOSharky (The only thing straight, white, Christian males get is the blame for everything.)
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To: Travis McGee
Ah, sing it, Travis ---

I'm eternally thankful for your input on these threads with respect to the CZ-52. It was after one of your posts four years ago that I went out and purchased mine, along with enough ammuntion to supply a battalion. I dearly love my Czech hand-cannon ... and the low ammunition costs pay for the pistol many times over.

7 posted on 03/21/2012 6:24:14 AM PDT by BlueLancer (KOMEN PINK: The color of the water in the basin after Pilate finished washing his hands)
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To: Mich Patriot
I continue to buy a box or a brick every trip to the store. Won't go to waste!

Mike

8 posted on 03/21/2012 6:26:50 AM PDT by MichaelP (The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools ~HS)
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To: Gilbo_3
"...actually, its simpler to remember that the enemy NEVER sleeps, and will NEVER abide by 'live and let live'...

...while we attempt to make ends meet, they continually, like little perpetual motion machines, grind away on every issue, from every angle, every day, financed by power peoples money, whose goal is only to take our money, power and FReedom....."

Exactly so! This has been part of their overall strategy since the late 1800's and was first implemented in the U.S. during and by the Teddy Progressive administration.

Brilliant strategy...Carefully implemented...Eminently successful...Irrevocable without our implementation of a few important sentences in the Declaration of Independence!

9 posted on 03/21/2012 6:29:20 AM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another agitator for republicanism like Sam Adams when we need him?)
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To: marktwain

If they are worried about Birds 100,000 plus Birds Killed by subsidized Wind farms EPA should step in today! Shut em down


10 posted on 03/21/2012 6:32:06 AM PDT by philly-d-kidder (AB-Sheen"The truth is the truth if nobody believes it,a lie is still a lie, everybody believes it")
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To: Travis McGee
Witness 10mm. S&W .357 for a back up.

"Two is one, and one is none."

:-)

11 posted on 03/21/2012 6:44:23 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: BlueLancer

Another advantage of the CZ-52 is it’s roller pin delay system. It was designed so that the pistol could fire very hot SMG ammo that was too hot for a Tokarev. But this also makes the slide very easy to pull back, much easier than other comparable pistols with conventional delay systems. As a result, if carried with an empty chamber, you can pull the slide back like it was a .22 pistol. Folks who have trouble jacking the slide on a typical 9mm, .40 or .45 will have no problem chambering a round with the CZ-52. This becomes an issue for older folks, sometimes.


12 posted on 03/21/2012 6:47:25 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: CPOSharky

We could really improve humanity if we just banned CO2 and Lead.


13 posted on 03/21/2012 6:48:37 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: musicman

ping


14 posted on 03/21/2012 6:51:03 AM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: Travis McGee

BTTT!

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/vz-52/


15 posted on 03/21/2012 6:51:44 AM PDT by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: Dead Corpse

Also fine calibers, but pricey ammo if you don’t reload. For folks on a tight budget who feel they might prefer a LOT of ammo, delivered now, dirt cheap, it’s hard to top 7.62X25. You can buy a CZ-52 pistol and a thousand rounds of ammo for much less than the price of a new “name brand” pistol and no ammo.


16 posted on 03/21/2012 6:53:29 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: EdReform

Such a deal!


17 posted on 03/21/2012 6:55:45 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: marktwain

citing risks to birds??

Ban wind turbines?


18 posted on 03/21/2012 6:56:41 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: CPOSharky

lol


19 posted on 03/21/2012 6:58:01 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Travis McGee

Yeah, pretty sweet! Do you know of any other good sources selling CZ-52’s?


20 posted on 03/21/2012 7:04:29 AM PDT by EdReform (Oath Keepers - Guardians of the Republic - Honor your oath - Join us: www.oathkeepers.org)
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To: Travis McGee
Dillon RL550. Bought it and a few sets of carbide dies off Craig's List. ;-)

I also have a Lee single stage for larger calibers.

21 posted on 03/21/2012 7:06:19 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Steampunk- Yesterday's Tomorrow, Today)
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To: Travis McGee
We could really improve humanity if we just banned CO2 and Lead.

Alright, I'll meet you halfway. These are liberals' concerns, so they should do the heavy lifting if possible. I'd be agreeable to a ban on lead ammo for liberals, and they could also be banned from exhaling as it emits CO2. See there, I can be reasonable!

22 posted on 03/21/2012 7:32:20 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Travis McGee

That is one pretty pistol.


23 posted on 03/21/2012 7:46:04 AM PDT by CodeToad (I'm so right-wing if I lifted my left leg I'd go into a spin.)
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To: Travis McGee

Bump


24 posted on 03/21/2012 8:16:52 AM PDT by painter (Rebuild The America We love!)
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To: CPOSharky

[ Sheesh, us (multiple expelatives deleted) shooters are puting LEAD into the ground. How horrible.

(Would someone please tell these people where lead comes from?) ]

Lead comes from Oil thus it is evil!!!!

/sarc


25 posted on 03/21/2012 8:38:59 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: Travis McGee; Gilbo_3; CodeToad

RE CZ-52:

It IS a stylish li’l devil, ain’t it!?!

The Czechs have always made some fine weapons. I’ve always liked Commbloc weapons...they always go bang.


26 posted on 03/21/2012 8:43:19 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: NFHale

Yep. The CZ I imaged I just grabbed off the web, but I also paid the $50 for Hogue tropical wood grips. The combloc plastic grips are just plain ugly.


27 posted on 03/21/2012 8:44:51 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee; Gilbo_3; CodeToad

“...The combloc plastic grips are just plain ugly...”

Utilitarian, like everything else they produced. It takes an American touch to give it a touch o’ class!!!

I like the CZ-75 - the original ones are sweet. New models are nice too, but pricey.

SKS carbines are nice too. There are some out there mod’ed to take AK magazines, doing away with that silly extension on the SKS mags.

They’re the “Timex” of the firearms world...”Takes a Lickin’, keeps on Tickin’”.


28 posted on 03/21/2012 8:57:53 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: Travis McGee

I have heard tell that the firing pin on these tend to break. And, I have also read about instances of catastrophic failure of these when fired with the SMG loads.

I would never ever fire a non-standard loading in a pistol
since I value my hands and face.


29 posted on 03/21/2012 10:00:21 AM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: Gilbo_3

They’re pushing for divisions, confrontations with idiotic government yes men and other provocations that will lead to more clamp-down clamoring.

The “anti-lead” hysteria is directly modelized on the “pro-TSA-gropping” and “anti-war and anti-civil-self-defense” hysteria that will follow up once some people retaliate to the government with their own version of a cup of shut the fuck up ATF/EPA etc.

These people are terrorists and use terror tactics to frighten first of smoking, lead poisoning and then the rest is history.


30 posted on 03/21/2012 10:01:20 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: Travis McGee
I bought mine a few years ago.....I gave $180.00, ( $210.00..by the time I got it in my hands...)...Wish I'd have bought 10 for that price. They are getting a bit harder to find....

They are great fun to shoot.....

31 posted on 03/21/2012 10:04:24 AM PDT by Osage Orange (The MSM is the most dangerous entity in the United States of America.)
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To: Travis McGee

What’s your opinion of the CZ-82?


32 posted on 03/21/2012 11:06:46 AM PDT by Ancesthntr (Bibi to Odumbo: Its not going to happen.)
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To: JudgemAll
The “anti-lead” hysteria is directly modelized on the “pro-TSA-gropping” and “anti-war and anti-civil-self-defense” hysteria that will follow up once some people retaliate to the government with their own version of a cup of shut the ...

i believe the anti-lead or anti-2A in general, was the stepping stone...they warmed up on guns, booze and smokes, along with a *war* on some drugs, in preparation for and conditioning the masses to accept having their johnsons and boobies played with and photod at the airport...

i excerpted yer quote, and would ask that the *language* be toned down, as occassionally my lil girl will read over my shoulder...

33 posted on 03/21/2012 12:06:56 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Ancesthntr

I’ve seen them but have not shot them. I don’t really know.


34 posted on 03/21/2012 12:09:37 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: RitchieAprile

The original firing pins are brittle, that only means don’t dry fire on an empty chamber. Pretty easy, plus, new pins are about $15.

I’ve never heard about catostophic failures, are you sure you’re not talking about firing SMG ammo in a Tokarev?

The CZ-52 was designed with roller pins in order to use any and all ammo. At least, that is my understanding.


35 posted on 03/21/2012 12:12:34 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: NFHale
some out there mod’ed to take AK magazines, doing away with that silly extension on the SKS mags.

any experience with that mod ??? reliability is critical in the 'always goes bang' commbloc stuff...

36 posted on 03/21/2012 12:13:53 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Travis McGee

You might want to read this:

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?69456-CZ-52-vs-TT-33


37 posted on 03/21/2012 12:20:18 PM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: RitchieAprile

That’s a great thread, and it shows a lot of opinions, and some myths are busted which is always good. (”SMG ammo” etc.) That said, both the Toke and the 52 have their followers and detractors. Personally, I think the Toke was just the ugliest gun ever made, and no safety, and a “live” firing pin making it unsafe to carry chambered, hence, I got rid of mine many years ago and always disliked them. So, it’s interesting on that thread to read how many fans there are of the Toke. Hey, a lot is in the eye of the beholder, or the hand of the gun holder. If folks like that ugly Toke, more power. And since they are cheap and the 7.62X25 is great ammo by my accounts, I’d say add them to any backup/handout/cache list of cheap but effective pistols.


38 posted on 03/21/2012 2:18:21 PM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Gilbo_3

Hey good buddy...

Yeah, occasionally I see a guy at one of the ranges I go to who has one. It works fine. Chicom version. He bought it that way.

Believe it or not, he’s got a “California-approved” thumbhole stock on it...looks silly, but it works fine.


39 posted on 03/21/2012 3:12:47 PM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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