Posted on 03/22/2012 9:03:25 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
I guess the only way your rights can be preserved is if no one responds to you anymore. Maybe Al Sharpton can come take your case when he’s done with Martin’s. You’re a VICTIM!
While I fully know that evidence that may be needed in court is rarely released to the public, they could provided a report to the public of what steps have been taken to obtain that evidence which supports self-defense, since that appears to be the official position in this case. And, if it’s the position of the local law enforcement that the shooting was self-defense, and no charges are going to be filed by the local LE, then there is more that can be released to the public. Given the highly volitile nature of the case, I’d think it would be in the public’s best interest to release as much information as is warranted to assauge potential anger.
I did listen to the entire phone call, several times. Yes, while on the phone Zimmerman stopped chasing the kid. But he knew what direction the kid was heading. When the police suggested meeting up with Zimmerman at the mailboxes, he hesitated and then replied that they should call him so he could give them his exact location. That suggests to me that Zimmerman, after getting off the phone, ran after the kid and caught up with him in someone’s backyard.
“Merits? Which merits are those. Speculation as to what took place prior to the physical altercation and the shooting? Because that is all anyone has, including me. Why are these individuals here so hell-bent on shutting me and anyone else down who are simply asking for answers to questions that have none.”
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I can’t speak for anyone else, but I disagree with you for the following reasons:
I have seen the media do this time and time again. See my previous post about DC. I can see right through what they’re doing. The WHOLE REASON we are on this board having to hash this out is NOT because the police didn’t do a proper investigation, IT’S BECAUSE THE MEDIA is reporting this in a half a**ed, cockeyed manner. People like you are left to believe poor young Trayvon, clutching his little Skittles, was just skipping home and POW!
This is what the media wants you to think. So some of us try to see past the media narrative, try to open up the cracks a bit and really examine the police report and think critically. Like a surgeon, divorce yourself of all emotion and thoughts of “MAN, THIS IS SO MESSED UP!” or you will reach a biased conclusion. I have been on countless homicide scenes. The police know what to look for.
NOTHING WOULD MAKE A COP HAPPIER THAN TO MAKE A HOMICIDE ARREST! It looks great on a resume. The police on scene got statements from witnesses, called a supervisor to the scene, got crime scene techs and detectives involved, processed the scene, took Zimmerman downtown and had him questioned by detectives, took the gun as evidence and.... when they put all the pieces together determined they had no probable cause to charge him with a crime.
Now you come into the picture, wanting some unnamed impartial person or organization to come in and investigate again.
Not only do I find this a tremendous waste of resources, but it FEEDS INTO the media narrative that something is amiss here, and feeds into the crowd mentality that “Zimmerman must hang”.
If it were the case that Zimmerman was the initiator and aggressor prior to the 17 year old allegedly hitting Zimmerman, and Zimmerman shooting the 17 year old, does that change the issue of probable cause to effect an arrest of Zimmerman?
From what I've read on this thread, Martin was talking on his cell phone with his girl friend while returning from the store with a soda and a bag of candy.
“If it were the case that Zimmerman was the initiator and aggressor prior to the 17 year old allegedly hitting Zimmerman, and Zimmerman shooting the 17 year old, does that change the issue of probable cause to effect an arrest of Zimmerman?”
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If Zimmerman intitiated by doing anything for which it would be an appropriate response to hit someone repeatedly in the head and face, then Zimmerman could not claim self defense.
The gun used is surely being held by the police. But I’ve heard he is still carrying, so maybe he has a 2nd weapon.
Considering Mr. Zimmerman’s tendency to be hyper-vigilant, I can see him interpreting Martin’s cellphone activity as one of calling his homeboys, after casing some joints.
I'm not paying attention to the drive by media reports that his was a racist act against a Black youth. I could care less about their agenda. The initial reports of this incident that I read and watched were not filled with the drive-by histrionics that came later. I ask these questions not based upon Al Sharpton's ascertions this was racially motivated (because it isn't), but because, from my perspective, there are missing pieces. Whether they are missing because they weren't covered, or because they weren't released by officials, it is my opinion that the officals on the ground have allowed this incident to get out of hand. I don't believe Zimmerman was out looking for someone to shoot. I don't believe law enforcement is purposely trying to cover anything up. But as you know, it's not what is real it is what is perception in the minds of those who will cause problems. The race-baiters have a political agenda. I only want to know what happened.
But how relevant is that, really. Regardless of who initiated the confrontation, the facts are that you have Martin on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him, with Zimmerman yelling for help, which means his life was in danger at that point. The only thing you can argue now is that Martin was justified and acting in self defense himself, of which, no evidence exists. In fact, the very position that Martin finds himself in...on top of Zimmerman...doesn't speak well for a self defense motive. You would have to further argue that Martin found it necessary to incapacitate Zimmerman since Martin was in control of situation.
That seems to be a pretty heavy burden to prove.
If Zimmerman is the aggressor, is there consideration of the age of the youth, and his state of mind? Would a 17 year old be expected to react in that situation in the same manner that a 30 year old would?
What I mean is that the media is not reporting in a cohesive manner all the evidence that has been put out by the police. This is why we find ourselves here trying to piece it together. This feeds the conspiracy theories.
A 17 year old would generally be expected to respond rationally to an event. Do we believe that Zimmerman, the overweight man in his 30s overtook the 17 year old football player? How did Zimmerman come to encounter Martin face to face?
That’s one of the questions I ask myself. If this was your child, what would you tell him to do, if he was confronted by somebody like Zimmerman, based on the phone call to the 911 operator?
I can only conclude that I would tell my son to knock him out and then get out.
Leaving the above aside, let's say Martin was on top. You state that he was in control of the situation! Was he? How much in control can someone who is unarmed be against someone who is armed? In your scenereo I'd have to argue there is a case of self-defense that can be made for Martin as he was unarmed, and fighting an armed man. I don't know about you, but if I found myself in that position I wouldn't stop hitting the other person until I knew he waw either no longer armed or completely incapacitated.
I can’t answer this as fact but the facts we do know would lend to Zimmerman NOT knowing Trayvon was talking on the phone.
Trayvon’s girlfriend said Trayvon was using a headset and that Trayvon threw up his hoodie when he realized Zimmerman was watching him.
This leads me to suspect that is why Zimmerman thought Trayvon was possibly scoping out houses and perhaps on drugs.
He sees a kid probably meandering, distracted a bit while in conversation (on this unseen phone) talking to what would look like himself.
Sometimes people look up and stuff when they talk on the phone, watch people shopping and getting in your way at the grocery store! hahaha!
They pause and are distracted in conversation. If one didn’t realize that somebody was on a phone—it would appear insane. Plus the kid is walking in the rain, threw up his hoodie when he notices Zimmerman.
I have also wondered why Trayvon’s dad didn’t just drive him to the store or let Trayvon drive if he had a license. It was raining and it wasn’t halftime as the story is told, it was before the game. The game started at 7:30pm est.
The dad is also the one that told police that it wasn’t Trayvon screaming for help on the tape. I am wondering a bit about the dad. I know that is bad but I am.
How would Martin know Zimmerman was armed until Zimmerman produced the handgun and fired it?
A plausible scenario. Although Zimmerman said he didn't know where Martin was, which suggests Martin had a huge head start on Zimmerman. Why wouldn't Martin just run home to his apartment? I would think he would have been safe behind doors long before Zimmerman ever came close. Maybe he was lost? He was only there temporarily maybe in the dark every condo looked the same? I don't have answers.
I witnessed my dad, who was in his 40’s at the time, incapacitate a younger man who outweighed him by a good 60 to 80 pounds and was 8 inches taller than my dad. In high school I witnessed a friend knock another guy completely on his ass by reaching across a picnic table and hitting him. The other guy was over 300 pounds. My friend weighted around 180. In pro-football we’ve all seen a 5 foot 8 inch running back knock down a defensive lineman well over 6 feet and weighing near or over 300 pounds. But, I digress.
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