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Jonah Goldberg: ‘Violence solves all sorts of problems’
Daily Caller ^ | 5/17/12 | Michelle Fields

Posted on 05/17/2012 1:09:37 PM PDT by Nachum

Washington - National Review Online editor Jonah Goldberg spoke Wednesday about how “violence solves all sorts of problems” and argued against the critique that Jesus was a pacifist. (Snip) “A lot of people think we get this idea [that violence solves nothing] from Jesus,” Goldberg said. “This is one of the things they love: ‘You hypocritical conservatives, you think violence is a solution — you call yourself a Christian, you’re not.’ Jesus told his followers to carry swords. Unless he had some sort of theory that fell out of in the Apocrypha that these were just great big kabob skewers,

(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: goldberg; jonah; problems; violence
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Clinging to our Bibles and great big nasty guns.

Right Mr. President?

1 posted on 05/17/2012 1:09:47 PM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum

It solved Hitler.


2 posted on 05/17/2012 1:12:50 PM PDT by ozzymandus
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To: Nachum

War is simply the last step in politics. Pacifism, Negotiation, Disagreement, Treaty, Violation, Aggression conduct, physically aggressive conduct, etc....

WAR...whoaoaoa whoahaoha hwoawhoahw yeah...war what is it good for? ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING


3 posted on 05/17/2012 1:13:05 PM PDT by Bronco_Buster_FweetHyagh (I cling to guns and religion.)
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To: Nachum

So Jesus was just negotiating with those money changers in the Temple?


4 posted on 05/17/2012 1:17:29 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: ozzymandus

“The very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.” Adolf Hitler


5 posted on 05/17/2012 1:17:43 PM PDT by SMARTY ("The man who has no inner-life is a slave to his surroundings. "Henri Frederic Amiel)
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To: Nachum
Our God-given liberty is protected by "violence". Guns preserve freedom and our inalienable right to worship God.

The Second Amendment is the mighty fortress for the First.


6 posted on 05/17/2012 1:20:28 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas.)
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To: Nachum

10. Violence sometimes IS the answer. If someone is raping your wife, asking him to please stop is not as effective as a .45 caliber bullet traveling at his face at 1041 feet per second. If you are unwilling or unable to fight for your beliefs and your liberty, you don’t have “rights” you have polite requests.

From the 27 Prepper Precepts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2877305/posts


7 posted on 05/17/2012 1:21:00 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer
What about:

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36
8 posted on 05/17/2012 1:24:22 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Nachum

I agree with everything said here.

Now, when do we begin?


9 posted on 05/17/2012 1:27:45 PM PDT by tickedoffnow (No more...)
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To: Nachum

Jonah is throwing himself under the bus here.

Yes Jesus ordered disciples to carry swords to the Garden of Gethsemane but only as a self-defense warning to Temple guards that might try and take the disciples.

When one of his disciple drew his sword Jesus told him to stop.

I am sure Jesus saw his disciples as his witness who would one day be full of the Holy Spirit. He wished they to be preserved for the work ahead after his ascension.

The swords were only to keep the Temple guards at bay while Jesus told them it was He they came for, to leave the others.

Jesus was not violent at all and never espoused it.


10 posted on 05/17/2012 1:28:21 PM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Nachum

Violence solved a lot of problems for Joe Stalin, Mao, Hitler and Mussolini.. and every other tin pot dictator..

And violence will solve many problems for Americas left OH!.. and the UNIONS.. which includes the police, teachers and firefighters.. and every givernment worker in the federal, state and local givernments..

Wisconsin is exactly a good test case to watch..
Those people are all parasites.. on “a HOST”..


11 posted on 05/17/2012 1:30:10 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole...)
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To: Kartographer

My favorte is this one, “I came not to bring peace but a sword”


12 posted on 05/17/2012 1:30:34 PM PDT by stockpirate (Romney, Ann Coulter & our ruling republican elites, are Big Government socialists, Grand Ole Sociali)
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To: Hostage

Jesus came to earth for the purpose of being unjustly crucified on our behalf.

Our purpose on this earth is different.


13 posted on 05/17/2012 1:33:50 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: Nachum

Violence got Trayvon Martin off of George Zimmerman in a hurry.


14 posted on 05/17/2012 1:35:01 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: rogue yam

Yes. It is to spread the Gospel. Unlike Islam, we don’t use the Sword to spread it.


15 posted on 05/17/2012 1:37:36 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Hostage
Jesus was not violent at all and never espoused it.

He sure does swing that sword well in revelation for a non-violent person. He also directs his people in the OT to kill an awful lot of people (violently) for someone who doesn't espouse violence.

Jesus is violent when the situation calls for violence. (Such as clearing the temple) and peaceful when it calls for peace. He never said we could not, or should not, defend the innocents.

16 posted on 05/17/2012 1:39:24 PM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Theoria

There is a difference between using a sword to spread your faith and using one to defend yourself.

You know this yet you pretend not to.

Why is that?


17 posted on 05/17/2012 1:40:49 PM PDT by rogue yam
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To: Nachum

1. How were Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan destroyed?

2. How was slavery abolished?

2. How was your freedom to put any bumper sticker, no matter how stupid, on your car secured?

Three questions to which “WAR” is the answer.


18 posted on 05/17/2012 1:42:08 PM PDT by Hugin ("Most times a man'll tell you his bad intentions, if you listen and let yourself hear."---Open Range)
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To: rogue yam
Whoa. I know the difference, that was not what I was inferring. I was simply restating the glory of purpose.
19 posted on 05/17/2012 1:43:46 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Nachum

Beg to differ with Jonah regarding Jesus, however I am not a pacifist and not promoting it as a realistic way to deal with the world.


20 posted on 05/17/2012 1:44:45 PM PDT by Andrei Bulba (No Obama, no way)
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To: Lurker

And Jesus did not know that he was speaking to a soldier when he told him to do no murder and be satisfied with his wages?


21 posted on 05/17/2012 1:45:17 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: stockpirate

My favorte is this one, “I came not to bring peace but a sword”

How ‘bout “Praise the Lord but pass the ammunition”.


22 posted on 05/17/2012 1:49:13 PM PDT by Mountain Mary (One Nation Under God..."There I said it" ... Great One...)
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To: ozzymandus

Yeah. Some loser at a demonstration had a “War is Never the Answer” sign. I engaged him, and pointed out it depends on the question. Ask Napoleon, Hitler, Tojo or Lee if war isn’t the answer. Left the idiot literally speechless.


23 posted on 05/17/2012 1:53:02 PM PDT by Kozak (The means of defence against foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home JM)
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To: Theoria

“Unlike Islam, we don’t use the Sword to spread it.”

This century, you mean.

(I am a fan of Christians, but don’t kid yourself that Christianity was not spread at the point of a sword and gun.)


24 posted on 05/17/2012 1:57:11 PM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem.)
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To: stockpirate
I think He would have been comfortable with the John Wayne philosophy--"I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." :)
25 posted on 05/17/2012 1:57:14 PM PDT by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: Jewbacca

Of course.


26 posted on 05/17/2012 1:57:58 PM PDT by Theoria (Rush Limbaugh: Ron Paul sounds like an Islamic terrorist)
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To: Hostage

Theoretical of course....since I saw nothing in that scripture that supports Jesus issuing that warning over concerns over the temple guards.


27 posted on 05/17/2012 1:58:11 PM PDT by mdmathis6 (Kiss the Son!)
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To: Sudetenland

I like the Patrick Swayze approach in “Roadhouse”....”Be nice...until it’s time to not be nice.”


28 posted on 05/17/2012 1:58:36 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: ozzymandus

It solved the original Ozymandius ... and countless other similar folks before him.


29 posted on 05/17/2012 2:01:12 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: John O

You have a misunderstanding of the word ‘violent’.

Jesus was not violent and never espoused it period.

Actions which you call ‘violent’ were not violent. Cleaning the Temple of money changers was ‘cleaning’ the Temple and not an act of violence against the violators of the Temple rules. He was enforcing the rules not advocating physical bodily harm.

To stretch Jesus’ actions of defense and enforcement into acts of ‘violence’ is hysterical and false.

You also have a misunderstanding of the
biblical terms translated to ‘sword’.

The word ‘sword’ came from two different words having different meanings. One is a metaphor and was used to denote ‘the Word of God’.

“And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword [machaira] of the Spirit, which is the word of God” (Ephesians 6:17)

This link can help you sort out your confusion:

http://amberneve.newsvine.com/_news/2009/08/14/3153148-the-two-swords-of-revelation-introduction


30 posted on 05/17/2012 2:04:02 PM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Theoria

But we should if need be use the sword to defend it and to defend those that can’t defend themselves.


31 posted on 05/17/2012 2:04:22 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Nachum

I love my Barrett 82A1 .50 BMG!


32 posted on 05/17/2012 2:05:16 PM PDT by carriage_hill (All liberals & most demoncraps think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: mdmathis6

Then why did He say to grab the swords on their way to the garden?

The swords were taken as a warning against violence, purely for defensive purposes for the disciples, certainly not to protect Himself. The only persons that could threaten violence in this setting were the Temple guards.


33 posted on 05/17/2012 2:07:36 PM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Kartographer
If someone is raping your wife, asking him to please stop is not as effective as a .45 caliber bullet traveling at his face at 1041 feet per second

Oh, now you've gone and done it. Pretty soon some Freeper is going to make the case for the .357 Magnum, then the 10mm guys will chime in, then the .40 faction will be heard, and eventually some goof will offer the opinion that a .22LR round is all you need.

This is going to be a long thread.

34 posted on 05/17/2012 2:08:45 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (The best diplomat I know is a fully-activated phaser bank. - Montgomery Scott)
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To: Mountain Mary

> My favorte is this one, “I came not to bring peace but a sword”

The word ‘sword’ in this case is a metaphor for the ‘Word of God’.

“Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.” Ephesians 6:17


35 posted on 05/17/2012 2:12:59 PM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Kozak
Yep, losers that think they're smart and special by parroting feel-good slogans. Most of them are just doing it to get easy stupid chicks anyway…

You only have to open your eyes to see that violence is sometimes the ONLY answer.

This country and modern representative government only exists BECAUSE of violent uprising. Before the American Revolution, it was punishable to even question a monarch's absolute authority. For centuries, all of western civilization was controlled by a handful of inter-marrying families and absolute power was handed down by birth. Then America happened and everyone else soon followed.

If all the people in history followed the rules and were nonviolent, we would all still be subjects of an absolute monarchy with 99% living in ignorance and TRUE poverty. We would still likely be living in a pre-industrial world.

36 posted on 05/17/2012 2:15:16 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: dfwgator
LOL! "Roadhouse," a guilty pleasure. It's a cheesy, predictable, chick-flick, but I still like it.

Yeah, that motto will work too.
37 posted on 05/17/2012 2:15:54 PM PDT by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: Sudetenland
I think He would have been comfortable with the John Wayne philosophy--"I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." :)

"But I say to you not to resist evil: but if one strike thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other" - Matthew 5:39

38 posted on 05/17/2012 2:19:17 PM PDT by JustSayNoToNannies (A free society's default policy: it's none of government's business.)
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To: Hostage

Were the “purse and scrip”, mentioned in the same breath as the “sword” reference, also a matter of interacting with Temple guards?
For that matter, where in that section are “Temple guards” referred to? I’m not seeing it.

That verse brackets one at the beginning of His ministry, where He tells them to give up those things and put their full faith and needs in him, right down to giving up money and bags to carry stuff. Then, here at the end of His ministry, He directs them to take those items back up again - and includes swords as a new item in the list.

Note too that a couple disciples already had swords in their immediate possession, so one may presume they were carrying ‘em about for a while and He was fully away of the fact (both in omniscient knowledge and in the mundane fact it’s hard to keep a >2-foot razor blade hidden for very long when you’re living in a hot climate and not carrying much else to conceal it). His response to “here, we have two” wasn’t “huh? what? WHY? get rid of ‘em already!” (nor was it “nice start, now all of you arm yourselves to the teeth”). Nor, when used for defense or thereafter, did He direct them to get rid of the things.

BTW: don’t forget He beat the snot out of those selling things in the Temple, and when asked about defending himself opined that he had a legion of angels at His command (implication was He wasn’t going to have them sung into compliance).


39 posted on 05/17/2012 2:19:58 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Cloud storage? Dropbox rocks! Sign up at http://db.tt/nQqWGd3 for 2GB free (and I get more too).)
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To: JustSayNoToNannies

I just knew that some humorless, self-appointed Bible-cop would show up to take issue with my comment. Get a life.


40 posted on 05/17/2012 2:22:04 PM PDT by Sudetenland (Anybody but Obama!!!!)
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To: carriage_hill

Lesseehere, which Commandment addressed “coveting”?


41 posted on 05/17/2012 2:23:07 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Cloud storage? Dropbox rocks! Sign up at http://db.tt/nQqWGd3 for 2GB free (and I get more too).)
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To: Jeff Chandler
Maybe we can get everyone could settle on one of these:

42 posted on 05/17/2012 2:30:16 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Hostage
Cleaning the Temple of money changers was ‘cleaning’ the Temple and not an act of violence against the violators of the Temple rules. He was enforcing the rules not advocating physical bodily harm.

John 2:12-22 "... So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. ..."

Sounds pretty violent. This wasn't going table to table having persuasive theological discussions.

43 posted on 05/17/2012 2:31:21 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Cloud storage? Dropbox rocks! Sign up at http://db.tt/nQqWGd3 for 2GB free (and I get more too).)
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To: Sudetenland
I just knew that some humorless, self-appointed Bible-cop would show up to take issue with my comment. Get a life.

Make claims about His thought that are contradicted by His words and I'll call you on it every time. Deal.

44 posted on 05/17/2012 2:32:47 PM PDT by JustSayNoToNannies (A free society's default policy: it's none of government's business.)
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To: ctdonath2

I don’t know of any; covet away! It’s a s-w-e-e-t firearm, and so is my Beowulf .50cal & ACOG, for “shorter-range wet-work”:

http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/Products-.50_Beowulf.html
and
http://www.militarywarfighter.com/Trijicon_TA64850_p/trijicon-ta648-50.htm


45 posted on 05/17/2012 2:33:32 PM PDT by carriage_hill (All liberals & most demoncraps think that life is just a sponge bath, with a happy ending.)
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To: ctdonath2

No different than a priest or nun in a school paddling an impudent incorrigible student.

Jesus was a Rabbi and the money changers knew it, and they knew the Temple rules.

Jesus was cleaning house and ready to spank those who willingly flaunted the rules. That’s not ‘violence’, that’s parenting and enforcement.


46 posted on 05/17/2012 2:36:36 PM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: carriage_hill
By any chance does the ACOG have the infamous "verse" code?
47 posted on 05/17/2012 2:38:14 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Cloud storage? Dropbox rocks! Sign up at http://db.tt/nQqWGd3 for 2GB free (and I get more too).)
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To: ctdonath2

He did not “beat the snot out of those selling things in the Temple”. See Post #46.


48 posted on 05/17/2012 2:39:10 PM PDT by Hostage (Be Breitbart!)
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To: Hostage

Going after adults with a whip, overturning tables and dumping cashboxes in the process, is usually interpreted that way. This ain’t just a swat with a ruler across the knuckles or backside.


49 posted on 05/17/2012 2:44:46 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Cloud storage? Dropbox rocks! Sign up at http://db.tt/nQqWGd3 for 2GB free (and I get more too).)
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To: Nachum

I can’t speak for Christians (or Jewish people), but Rome and others before her say that slaves should be endlessly forgiving and tolerant. They don’t need any stinking freedoms.

[Little irony and sarcasm from a Gentile somewhat follower of Judaism. I left the plantation for monotheism.]


50 posted on 05/17/2012 2:48:23 PM PDT by familyop ("Wanna cigarette? You're never too young to start." --Deacon, "Waterworld")
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