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The Latest Crime-Solving Technique the Gun Lobby Doesn’t Like(Barf Alert)
time.com ^ | 18 June, 2012 | Adam Cohen

Posted on 06/19/2012 6:18:35 AM PDT by marktwain

It sounds like something from a futuristic thriller: police pick up spent bullet shells, find a tiny code on them that reveals what gun they were shot from and then use the ID to track down the killer. The technology to do this, called microstamping, is actually available today, but what’s stopping it from being used — and many criminals from being caught — is politics.

There are battles raging across the U.S. over microstamping, with supporters of the new technology squaring off against the gun lobby, which is strongly opposed. It is hard to see why the critics are so upset — and why they put so little value on microstamping’s potential to help fight crime.

(MORE: Erika Christakis: Trayvon Martin: The Neuroscience of What Makes People Trigger-Happy)

Gun violence in the U.S. is an epidemic. American gun-ownership rates are the highest in the world, with a remarkable 88 guns per 100 people. America also ranks No. 1 out of the top 26 high- and middle-income countries in gun mortality. In an average year, almost 100,000 people in the U.S. are shot or killed with a gun.

When police investigate gun crimes, they are often stymied by a lack of evidence. Guns are involved in the vast majority of murders, and according to the FBI, nearly 40% of all killings go unsolved because of lack of evidence. In many shootings, bullet casings are the only tangible evidence police have.

This is where microstamping comes in. If it were required, every gun would need to have a microscopic code stamped on the tip of its firing pin. When a bullet leaves the gun, its shell casing would be stamped with the code, which could be retrieved from the casings found at crime scenes.

(Excerpt) Read more at ideas.time.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: banglist; confiscation; microstamping; registration
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Microstamping only makes sense if there is universal gun registration, no theft of firearms, and no easy countermeasures by criminals.

Universal gun registration is effective gun confiscation. That is the golden ring that these "microstamping" proponents are aiming for.

The concept that the government could or should only “allow” certain people to buy guns stands the very concept of American jurisprudence on its head. It presumes that the government knows all, controls all, and should be doing so. It is wrong and ineffective. It is the opposite of preventing criminals from possessing guns.

It is crazy to set up a huge expensive bureaucratic system, require everyone to jump though hoops and prove that they are *not* criminals in order to try, ineffectively, to prevent the few individuals who are not responsible, from having legal access to guns. This is a failed paradigm, and it should be abandoned. To accept the idea that the all gun sales should be monitored by the government, and only allowed to those it deems satisfactory is fundamentally wrong.

The entire idea of the enterprise has always been the death of a thousand cuts, where the restrictions on who can buy, and where, and how and what are continually increased until the number of gun owners is reduced to political insignificance.

1 posted on 06/19/2012 6:18:48 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

GUN REGISTRATION IS GUN CONFISCATION (old but good)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2608785/posts


2 posted on 06/19/2012 6:19:54 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

“”This is where microstamping comes in. If it were required, every gun would need to have a microscopic code stamped on the tip of its firing pin. When a bullet leaves the gun, its shell casing would be stamped with the code, which could be retrieved from the casings found at crime scenes. The code could lead the police to the person who fired the gun — or at least to its original purchaser.””


Of course, the Bad Guys would be standing in line asking to have their illegally obtained guns microstamped before anyone else.


3 posted on 06/19/2012 6:25:29 AM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: Presbyterian Reporter

As someone here once mentioned to me: Police your brass, then throw a whole bunch of other shell casings around.


4 posted on 06/19/2012 6:29:21 AM PDT by theDentist (FYBO/FUBO; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: marktwain
“This is where microstamping comes in. If it were required, every gun would need to have a microscopic code stamped on the tip of its firing pin. When a bullet leaves the gun, its shell casing would be stamped with the code, which could be retrieved from the casings found at crime scenes”.

There are millions of guns in circulation without any such micro stamping, a new firing pin would leave no marks, someone could easily police their brass or use a revolver thus leaving nothing to examine....for these reasons it's not workable to try unique micro stamping.

5 posted on 06/19/2012 6:33:26 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: marktwain
microstamp meet file or a simple file would not remove or obliterate the microstamp? or is the microstamp on the inside of the casing and gunpowder explosion does not damage the microstamp?

Funny thing about all that violence. Criminals have a history and the revolving door policy for criminals by the justice system. Have to feed the attorneys, judges, and their children. Have to make work for law enforcement, in order that their children are fed. Must house a criminal, on death row for ten plus years and feed that criminal. Money for attorneys, judges, police, has to be spent on numerous appeals, in order that the children may eat. Then there are the law abiding, and the law abiding pick up the tab, so the criminal can be released to wreck more havoc, so more money can be spent on said criminal. One has to believe the justice system loves criminals. They (the criminals) are their meal tickets. Am willing to believe this is one of the reasons for opposition, in the politics.

6 posted on 06/19/2012 6:35:54 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Please God, Protect and Bless Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: marktwain
If the government was really serious about reducing "gun violence", there is a simple way to do it: stop releasing violent offenders back into society.

In a NIH study on the prior criminal records of people who commit murder:

RESULTS: For 1990-2000, 42.6% of 884 cases had at least 1 felony conviction compared with 3.9% of nearly 7.9 million controls, for a population-attributable risk of 40.3% (95% CI, 37.0%-43.8%); among cases, 71.6% had experienced any arrest from 1990-2000 compared with 18.2% of controls, for a population-attributable risk of 65.3% (95% CI, 61.6%-68.8%). For 1996-2000, the population-attributable risk among individuals with a felony conviction or any arrest was 31.0% (95% CI, 27.9%-34.2%) and 58.5% (95% CI, 54.9%-62.1%), respectively.
Translation: a large percentage of murders are committed by people with a history of crime. By keeping chronic violent criminals locked up until they are old, you can greatly reduce the homicide rate.
7 posted on 06/19/2012 6:36:22 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (If I can't be persuasive, I at least hope to be fun.)
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To: marktwain

This is journalism. Fill it with “buzzwords” proverbial hand-wringing,a promotion of outdated conceptual technology as “groundbreaking” and top it off with a serious departure from facts and reality.

The dinosaur media indeed. What’s next and endorsement for Jim McGreevey’s “Smart-GUn” safety system?


8 posted on 06/19/2012 6:38:52 AM PDT by hkusp40
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To: marktwain

This is journalism. Fill it with “buzzwords” proverbial hand-wringing,a promotion of outdated conceptual technology as “groundbreaking” and top it off with a serious departure from facts and reality.

The dinosaur media indeed. What’s next and endorsement for Jim McGreevey’s “Smart-GUn” safety system?


9 posted on 06/19/2012 6:39:10 AM PDT by hkusp40
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To: marktwain

This is journalism. Fill it with “buzzwords” proverbial hand-wringing,a promotion of outdated conceptual technology as “groundbreaking” and top it off with a serious departure from facts and reality.

The dinosaur media indeed. What’s next and endorsement for Jim McGreevey’s “Smart-GUn” safety system?


10 posted on 06/19/2012 6:39:32 AM PDT by hkusp40
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To: marktwain

This is a red herring to get gun registration in play, gun registration is the first step in gun confiscation. Lazy ass police investigators always come up with this crap to make their job simpler. What’s a constitutional right when compared to easy police work. Liberal cops are twice the danger to freedom as criminals!!


11 posted on 06/19/2012 6:41:03 AM PDT by ontap
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To: ontap

The idiots never learn.

The Constitution was not written to protect us from the bad guys......It was written to protect us from our government, our cops.....


12 posted on 06/19/2012 6:51:09 AM PDT by old curmudgeon
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To: marktwain
Pssssttt.... Adam.

Ever heard of a revolver?

13 posted on 06/19/2012 6:51:17 AM PDT by grobdriver (Proud Member, Party of NO! Nobama, No Way, No How!)
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To: marktwain
I've got an idea.

Let's pass a law that anyone committing a crime must leave a photo ID at the scene of the crime.

See I can out “liberal lunatic” any liberal lunatic on the block.

14 posted on 06/19/2012 6:52:44 AM PDT by IMR 4350
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To: marktwain
Adam Cohen, ignorant Jew for citizen disarmament.

Maybe he plans on being the camp guard this time?

15 posted on 06/19/2012 6:54:10 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: marktwain

One word:

Revolver.


16 posted on 06/19/2012 6:55:36 AM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: marktwain

The question that should be asked is this: How is this supposed to be any different or superior in practice to the ballistic fingerprinting database already in existence in Maryland and New York? The Maryland one has only been able to provide useful information in exactly one case, at a cost of $2.6 million per conviction.

The New York one has never solved a case.

It gets worse:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistic_fingerprinting

A California Department of Justice survey, using 742 guns used by the California Highway Patrol as a test bed, showed very poor results; even with such a limited database, less than 70% of cases of the same make as the “fingerprint” case yielded the correct gun in the top 15 matches; when a different make of ammunition was used, the success rate dropped to less than 40%.”


17 posted on 06/19/2012 6:57:22 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: grobdriver

Anyone accused of using a firearm in the commission will be required to leave brass casings at the location. Failure do do so will result in a BIG PROBLEMO.


18 posted on 06/19/2012 6:58:20 AM PDT by sasquatch
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To: Presbyterian Reporter
What would happen is every gangbanger would keep a supply of mixed up spent brass to toss on the ground of crime scenes.

A couple hundred rounds of wore out spent brass would keep LE busy for quite awhile.

19 posted on 06/19/2012 7:02:36 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: hkusp40
This is journalism. Fill it with “buzzwords” proverbial hand-wringing,a promotion of outdated conceptual technology as “groundbreaking” and top it off with a serious departure from facts and reality.

Hey! Are you gonna give away the secret handshake too?!?

Don't forget: bury any information unfavorable to your preconceived opinion. Like New York dropping its CoBIS ballistic fingerprinting program after spending $44 million over a decade, without a single crime being solved.

Liberals love resurrecting failure.

20 posted on 06/19/2012 7:02:52 AM PDT by Rinnwald
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To: theDentist

...add a new or modified firing pin...
...collect brass from the individual the act is to be pinned on...
...fill/remove/alter the microstamp...

As others have stated here, the microstampers want universal registration leading to confiscation. Seems pretty much in line with emperor zippy’s apparent plans for America.

Vote hard!


21 posted on 06/19/2012 7:02:59 AM PDT by petro45acp ("Don't" read 'HOPE' by L Neil Smith and Aaron Zelman...it will bring tears to eyes. BORE!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: theDentist
Better yet, surreptitiously swap firing pins w/ someone you're trying to frame...
22 posted on 06/19/2012 7:07:07 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: theDentist
As someone here once mentioned to me: Police your brass, then throw a whole bunch of other shell casings around.

Use a revolver, and you don't need to police your brass, unless you use more than a cylinder-full of cartridges. Even then, you could eject them into your pocket.

23 posted on 06/19/2012 7:13:59 AM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: marktwain

“Microstamping only makes sense if there is universal gun registration, no theft of firearms, and no easy countermeasures by criminals. “

Let me add an essential step- exchanging ALL non-microstamped guns for ones that have the technology. There are probably a hundred million guns in the USA right now that don’t have microstamping, and forcing all “new” purchases to have them will never reach 100%.

Whatever microstamping is actually about, it has nothing to do with fighting crime.


24 posted on 06/19/2012 7:14:10 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: no-to-illegals
microstamp meet file or a simple file would not remove or obliterate the microstamp?

But that's the great thing. Since the microstamps can easily be filed off, the government will also need to have annual gun checks to make sure the microstamps are still in place. It just gets better and better.

25 posted on 06/19/2012 7:18:04 AM PDT by Tao Yin
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To: Disambiguator

“Even then, you could eject them into your pocket. “

Moon clip. ‘Course you’d need to shoot a .45, I don’t know of a .357 that uses a moon clip. Faster reloads, too.


26 posted on 06/19/2012 7:21:27 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: Disambiguator

Correction, you CAN get moon clip revolvers in 9mm, and .357


27 posted on 06/19/2012 7:23:06 AM PDT by DBrow
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To: marktwain

What the microstamping crowd doesn’t get is that it’s very dangerous. Let me put it in simple numbers.

They are suggesting that we use sharp edged imprinting technology to mark cases. Now, these sharp edged imprints will put a weak point on the case/primer when the gun is fired. Depending on the caliber, the pressure that will hit those weak points can be as low as 23,000 PSI and as high if not higher than 40,000 PSI.

Let’s look at this for a moment. Say the firing pin has a defect or is damaged. A primer is pierced due to the microstamping and now you have 40,000 PSI that pushes part or the whole of the firing pin out of the firing pin channel. What happens? It’s like another bullet going in the opposite direction. What is in line with the firing pin channel on a pistol? Yep, the shooters face.

Can we say lawsuit??? Yep.

Given that I along with other people have brought this point up with not only the designers and politicians... Anyone that dies as a result of microstamping induced failure of a cartridge case should be considered a murder victim and the designers and politicians held accountable.


28 posted on 06/19/2012 7:30:20 AM PDT by BCR #226 (02/07 SOT www.extremefirepower.com...The BS stops when the hammer drops.)
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To: marktwain

NY tried it (”ballistic fingerprinting”, equivalent to microstamping like a thumbprint is equivalent to a name tag).
Put many millions of dollars into it.
Ran it for over a decade.
Didn’t solve a single crime.
IIRC, are dismantling it now.


29 posted on 06/19/2012 7:31:52 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ($1 meals: http://abuckaplate.blogspot.com)
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To: marktwain

I have read that the FBI estimates there are somewhere around 200 million guns in the hands of private citizens in the US.

That’s a lot of firing pins to replace - not counting the spares.

Sounds like another of Obama’s shovel-ready jobs.


30 posted on 06/19/2012 7:37:07 AM PDT by Iron Munro (John Adams: 'Two ways to enslave a country. One is by the sword, the other is by debt')
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To: count-your-change

“There are millions of guns in circulation without any such micro stamping, a new firing pin would leave no marks, someone could easily police their brass or use a revolver thus leaving nothing to examine....for these reasons it’s not workable to try unique micro stamping.”

There is an amazing technology called a “file” that would take care of microstamping in a heartbeat.

Microstamping is a transparent effort at universal registration, and to make guns less affordable.

If something like this were desirable, it’d be easier to pre-engrave the brass and register ammo sales. Of course, criminals would just deface the engraving, so it’d be useless as well - except for controlling those pesky law-abiding citizens a bit more.


31 posted on 06/19/2012 7:38:17 AM PDT by PreciousLiberty (Pray for America!!!)
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To: marktwain

***...every gun would need to have a microscopic code stamped on the tip of its firing pin.***

A few seconds with some emery cloth or valve lapping compound and vola! No microstamp!


32 posted on 06/19/2012 7:40:30 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I LIKE ART! Click my name. See my web page.)
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To: BCR #226
What the microstamping crowd doesn’t get is that it’s very dangerous. Let me put it in simple numbers

Nope they just don't care. It isn't about solving crimes. It's all about and only about making firearms more difficult and expensive to obtain and adding more onerous regulations. The microstampers come in three flavors:

  1. those who stand to make a profit
  2. Those who want this as another step along the road to total loss of firearms ownership by anyone but the police and (reluctantly) the military
  3. And thoe who are so terminally stupid they think it will actually help solve crimes
The problem is that there are no negative consequences to the people who come up with this stuff. If they lose this go-round they'll just come back again. On the other hand if we lose, we're pushed another step towards the Democrats' and many Republicans' (like Romney) gun free utopia where only the police and other criminals are armed.

No campaign was ever won by solely defending. There has to be some way to put some real consequences on the people who come up with this stuff. The politicians are actually the most vulnerable because they can lose an election and hence face the prospect of actually having to work for a living.

33 posted on 06/19/2012 7:41:59 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: count-your-change
There are millions of guns in circulation without any such micro stamping, a new firing pin would leave no marks, someone could easily police their brass or use a revolver thus leaving nothing to examine

They would probably pass a law outlawing shell catcher bags and revolvers.

When shell catcher bags are outlawed only outlaws will have shell catcher bags.


34 posted on 06/19/2012 7:46:22 AM PDT by Iron Munro (John Adams: 'Two ways to enslave a country. One is by the sword, the other is by debt')
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To: count-your-change
"When a bullet leaves the gun, its shell casing would be stamped with the code, which could be retrieved from the casings found at crime scenes”."

How does this work on revolvers? I mean unless the perp stops and empties his gun how will microstamping help when a perp uses a revolver?

35 posted on 06/19/2012 7:50:09 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: DBrow

S&W 625 JM bump


36 posted on 06/19/2012 7:54:54 AM PDT by wordsofearnest (Proper aim of giving is to put the recipient in a state where he no longer needs it. C.S. Lewis)
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To: marktwain
I'm sure no one would think of anything like this..

Brass catcher

37 posted on 06/19/2012 7:57:42 AM PDT by IamConservative (Well done is better than well said. - Ben Franklin)
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To: Presbyterian Reporter
...Bad Guys would be standing in line asking to have their illegally obtained guns microstamped...

"Microstamp" criminals, not guns

38 posted on 06/19/2012 8:00:12 AM PDT by sima_yi ( Reporting live from the People's Republic of Boulder)
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To: marktwain

We have hundreds of thousands of violent criminals pouring over our borders, and hundreds of thousands of violent criminals being released from our prisons. We have an entertainment industry that has helped create and glorify the violent culture of Rap and Hip Hop. We have the Democratic Party that has worked to create divisions and hate in our society. We have an indebted government that is going to crash, taking all of us with it, and screwballs think marking firing pins will do something to stop crime. When the food stamps and various welfare checks stop. When this house of cards comes tumbling down, we are going to get the full force of our folly, and marks on firing pins won’t mean diddly squat.


39 posted on 06/19/2012 8:00:41 AM PDT by pallis
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To: from occupied ga
The problem is that there are no negative consequences to the people who come up with this stuff. If they lose this go-round they'll just come back again.

There is a negative consequence, it involves bloodshed though, and the general public is a bit squeamish about that. But once it gets started, there's no reason to have mercy on these people who seek domination over you.

40 posted on 06/19/2012 8:13:24 AM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: marktwain

100,000 out of 300,000,000 or so people are not bad odds. More people are probably killed each year by twinkies and old milwaukee.


41 posted on 06/19/2012 8:23:56 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: marktwain

Makes me wonder what could be done to primers to get around this. I was initially thinking of a material that acted like a rubber which would return to more or less its original state without retaining the stamp. Easier might be an outer layer of material that fractures.

Now I’m thinking that these stamps are going to need to have a lot of “digits”, which means they would need to be very small, which means the idea of firing pin caps might just be feasible. Maybe customizable so you could leave your own message, or leave someone else’s stamp.


42 posted on 06/19/2012 8:26:22 AM PDT by Darth Reardon (No offense to drunken sailors)
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To: Iron Munro; All
I have read that the FBI estimates there are somewhere around 200 million guns in the hands of private citizens in the US.

That’s a lot of firing pins to replace - not counting the spares.

Sounds like another of Obama’s shovel-ready jobs.

I think the number of U.S. privately owned guns is more than 300 million. However, you hit on a real intent of the law: Make all the guns without microstamping illegal to own.

The citizen disarmament crowd are not as concerned with taking the guns away, as of making them illegitimate.

Once they are illegitimate, they can take them away over a couple of generations, as they have in England.

43 posted on 06/19/2012 8:41:11 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: theDentist
As someone here once mentioned to me: Police your brass, then throw a whole bunch of other shell casings around.

My 7 shot revolver doesn't leave any brass on the scene.

44 posted on 06/19/2012 8:47:17 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Obama versus Romney? Cyanide versus arsenic.)
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To: Iron Munro; All

“I have read that the FBI estimates there are somewhere around 200 million guns in the hands of private citizens in the US.”

Here is a cite to the 300 million figure:

* Based on production data from firearm manufacturers,[6] there are roughly 300 million firearms owned by civilians in the United States as of 2010. Of these, about 100 million are handguns.[7]

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#[6]

With the record production in 2011 and 2012, it is likely over 310 million now.


45 posted on 06/19/2012 8:54:57 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Mad Dawgg

It wouldn’t work with a revolver, that’s a strike against the idea.


46 posted on 06/19/2012 9:17:58 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: marktwain
With the record production in 2011 and 2012, it is likely over 310 million now.

Thanks for the correction.

That's even better!


47 posted on 06/19/2012 9:33:36 AM PDT by Iron Munro (John Adams: 'Two ways to enslave a country. One is by the sword, the other is by debt')
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To: marktwain

Brass catchers are 9.00 at Midway. Or just duct tape an athletic sock to your pistol.

Problem solved.


48 posted on 06/19/2012 9:36:35 AM PDT by buffaloguy
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To: theDentist
"...which could be retrieved from the casings found at crime scenes.

Is Adam Cohen going to ban revolvers?

49 posted on 06/19/2012 9:53:09 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: marktwain

How come this buffoon isn’t going after all the Oldsmobiles in the country?

All the guns I know about haven’t killed as many people as Teddy Kennedy’s Oldsmobile.


50 posted on 06/19/2012 9:54:44 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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