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Nestle blames biofuels for high food prices
BBC ^ | July 18, 2012 | James Melik

Posted on 07/18/2012 2:03:37 PM PDT by CutePuppy

The head of the world's largest food producer believes high prices are due to the growing of crops for biofuels.

"The time of cheap food prices is over," says Nestle chairman Peter Brabeck-Letmathe.

He is highly critical of the rise in the production of bio-diesel, saying this puts pressure on food supplies by using land and water that would otherwise be used to grow crops for human or animal consumption.

"If no food was used for fuel, the prices would come down again - that is very clear," he says.

"We are now in a new world with a completely different level of food prices because of the direct link with fuel," he says.

He says biofuels are only affordable because of the high subsidies they receive, particularly in the US.

"It is absolutely unacceptable and cannot be justified," he says.

"There is one demand that I have, and that is not to use food for fuel."

Water crisis

Mr Brabeck-Letmathe says politicians have not understood that the food market and the oil market are the same - they are both calorific markets.

"The only difference is that with the food market you need 2,500 calories per person per day, whereas in the energy market you need 50,000 calories per person," he says.

When politicians said they wanted to replace 20% of fossil fuels with biofuels, it meant increasing the production of crops threefold, according to Mr Brabeck-Letmathe.

< snip > .....

Agriculture uses 70% of world's water consumption and the public must be made aware of the inefficient usage of this precious resource, Mr Brabeck-Letmathe adds.

"It takes about 4,600 litres of water to produce one litre of pure ethane oil if it comes from sugar, and it takes 1,900 litres of water if it comes from palm oil," he says.

.....

(Excerpt) Read more at m.bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: africa; biofuels; energy; environmentalism; food; foodprices; footprint; horizontalspace; inefficient; naturalresources; nestle; palmoil; prices; resources; sugar; sustainability; unsustainable; water
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It doesn't really matter to the pseudo-environmentalists, so it's useless to engage them, but explaining to normal people (or, in current vernacular, "regular folks") that growing crops for the biofuels, 'planting' wind turbines / "windmills" and solar farms to generate expensive energy requires huge amount of space and "human footprint" that not only doesn't "save the environment" - it actually destroys the environment and natural resources in addition to making everything else around us more expensive.

Unfortunately, the administrations and Congress-critters of both parties think that this kind of pseudo-"environmentalism" is now required, in addition to serving the wishes of their subsidies-seeking "special interest groups."

1 posted on 07/18/2012 2:03:43 PM PDT by CutePuppy
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To: CutePuppy

Not to mention that such use of vast horizontal space - required for biofuels, wind and solar “farms” - is not in the least “sustainable,” as the new “environmental” buzzword (”sustainability”) claims.


2 posted on 07/18/2012 2:09:03 PM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: CutePuppy

Follow da money - Ethanol is ruining car engines, and the EPA or DOE or both, want the % of ethanol in gasoline to be doubled - so that’s one way to ground a whole lot of people.


3 posted on 07/18/2012 2:10:11 PM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: Sioux-san
Ethanol is ruining car engines

Then why did I just read a story mentioning 8% of the vehicles at a recent wholesale auction had over 300,000 miles?

4 posted on 07/18/2012 2:15:19 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation

“Then why did I just read a story mentioning 8% of the vehicles at a recent wholesale auction had over 300,000 miles?”

Do you know the history of those engines? Were they the original engines? Were they rebuilt, or what?


5 posted on 07/18/2012 2:18:59 PM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, call 'em what you will, they ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: CutePuppy

I’m not so sure this is a terrible thing. To break the backs of the OPEC cartels and the terrorists they fund, we need expensive food, expensive metals/construction materials, cheap petroleum, a strong US dollar, and political/military unrest throughout the middle east.


6 posted on 07/18/2012 2:25:42 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: rockinqsranch

No I don’t but realistically how many cars get rebuilt engines these days?

One other bit of evidence: the average age of cars on the road has hit an ALL TIME HIGH at 10.8 years.

Cars (and engines) are lasting longer than ever.


7 posted on 07/18/2012 2:29:22 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: CutePuppy

Not to defend “biofuels,” but this just isn’t true. World production of grains is at an all-time high and biofuels are just a rich politician’s hobby, representing a miniscule fraction of productive capability.

It’s like saying gas is expensive because NASCAR wastes a lot of it.


8 posted on 07/18/2012 2:30:13 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: CutePuppy

I love Nestle chairman Peter Brabeck-Letmathe. Nestle does not give quarterly earnings “guidance,” but when you travel the world their products are always there. Nestle is not listed on the NY stock exchange, but Americans can buy the stock on the pink sheets in an active market. Nestle does not want to bother with the onerous reporting for US listed companies.

Peter is absolutely right, but he neglects to point out that the Africans were doing pretty well and were increasing food production until the respective States started to confiscate the land and “redistribute” the wealth.


9 posted on 07/18/2012 2:45:08 PM PDT by calico_thompson
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To: nascarnation

because law be dammed. I pull up to the collector/offroad unleaded pump and fill my 2002 Chev van with non-corn fuel.

I’ll have 300,000 on it by November.


10 posted on 07/18/2012 2:54:07 PM PDT by cableguymn (For the first time in my life. I fear my country's government.)
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To: nascarnation

Rebuilding engines is hot business nowadays as it costs far less to rebuild ‘em than buy new. There are three companies right here in Riverside area that are going night and day rebuilding engines. I have several friends also rebuilding engines as a “hobby”.

Cars as a rule of thumb are lasting longer yes. I have two 13 year old cars, and an eleven year old car. None have been rebuilt at this point, and won’t be at our expense as SAAB cars aren’t being built anymore, and parts are already becoming scarce. We’ll be going to FORD when we need to replace these.


11 posted on 07/18/2012 2:57:21 PM PDT by rockinqsranch (Dems, Libs, Socialists, call 'em what you will, they ALL have fairies livin' in their trees.)
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To: CutePuppy

wind and solar “farms”


Isn’t another problem involve storing wind and solar power?


12 posted on 07/18/2012 2:58:28 PM PDT by Leep (Enemy of the Statist)
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To: nascarnation

It is proven to be ruining smaller engines, such as those in boats, lawn equipment, and motorcycles. Some of them have their carbs destroyed, others are actually seeing destructive deposits in the engine proper.

It’s less of an issue with cars, but older carbureted cars are having fuel system problems as are older fuel-injected cars that are needing to have every rubber part (and the injectors) replaced because of it.


13 posted on 07/18/2012 3:00:27 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: jjotto

Not to defend “biofuels,” but this just isn’t true. World production of grains is at an all-time high and biofuels are just a rich politician’s hobby, representing a miniscule fraction of productive capability.

It’s like saying gas is expensive because NASCAR wastes a lot of it.

**********

NASCAR uses a percentage of fuel production that is miniscule in comparison to the percentage of our corn crop that is used for ethanol. Grain for ethanol is big business, both in the USA and in Brazil. If the ethanol mandate were repealed, the price of corn would plunge, and the prices of product using corn would also drop.


14 posted on 07/18/2012 3:00:27 PM PDT by Socon-Econ (Socon-Econ)
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To: CutePuppy

Let’s see...

Higher energy prices.

Higher food prices.

Higher unemployment.

Higher health care costs.

Higher taxes.

Higher debt and deficits.

I think I’m seeing a pattern here.


15 posted on 07/18/2012 3:10:46 PM PDT by Carbonsteel
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To: rockinqsranch

I bought an old big block IH 345 for a stock footage prop so I can tear down and and add on good enough to fool a cmaera for a small sum.

They don’t seem to bring anything in running condition from what I can see and worth more apparently for scrap broken down.

I haven’t fooled with it much due to the heat. It is in an old metal building with no power but here is the first clip of many.

http://footage.shutterstock.com/clip-2536067-stock-footage-old-engine-pcv-valve-removed-and-replaced-with-pliers.html


16 posted on 07/18/2012 3:16:30 PM PDT by wally_bert (It's sheer elegance in its simplicity! - The Middleman)
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To: CutePuppy
The head of the world's largest food producer believes high prices are due to the growing of crops for biofuels.

Hmmmm...creating a food shortage....a nice way to keep "The Peeps" under control. No wonder the little Eichmann's in D.C. are pushing biofuels.

17 posted on 07/18/2012 3:18:17 PM PDT by TheDon (The Democrat Party, the party of the KKK (tm))
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To: Spktyr

I’ve worked on OPE for decades and the biggest problem I see has little to do with ethanol and a lot to do with sh!tty Chinese quality engines. Especially the plastic fuel lines which seem to dissolve before your eyes.

I’ve got tractors, mowers, tillers, and trimmers that have run fine for 20+ years on E10 (yes we had essentially 100% E10 here in Indiana 20 years ago).


18 posted on 07/18/2012 3:30:58 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation
Cars (and engines) are lasting longer than ever.

I agree with you that ethanol is not ruining car engines, but the ethanol requirements are distorting the food and energy markets. Of course, government regulations always do that; this reg is particularly damaging, though.

19 posted on 07/18/2012 3:32:43 PM PDT by BfloGuy (The final outcome of the credit expansion is general impoverishment.)
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To: BfloGuy

I agree turning corn into fuel is nuts.

Now that the subsidies for domestic ethanol and tariffs on imported ethanol are gone, we’ll see a lot more ethanol from Brazilian sugar cane, I suspect.


20 posted on 07/18/2012 3:37:03 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: CutePuppy
Quit Burning
My Food!

21 posted on 07/18/2012 3:39:07 PM PDT by upchuck ("Definition of 'racist:' someone that is winning an argument with a liberal." ~ Peter Brimelow)
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To: CutePuppy

Love the proverb: “Live as if you will die tomorrow, plant as if you will live forever.”


22 posted on 07/18/2012 3:40:01 PM PDT by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: calico_thompson
Many foreign companies removed their listings from the US exchanges after Sarbanes-Oxley (and many US companies went private either through delisting or mergers with foreign companies or buyout by private equities market). Nestlé's ADR, as that of many foreign companies that want US 'presence' but without onerous Sarbox requirements, is listed on the pink sheets under symbol NSRGY/NSRGY.PK

It's a tremendous Swiss-based conglomerate - the largest food company in the world and one of the most admired, with more than 230,000 employees in nearly 500 locations worldwide, high quality diversified food and pharmacological products and great IT technology behind it that took them several years to fully implement.

"Six worldwide corporate brands, Nestlé, Nescafe, Nestea, Maggi, Buitoni and Friskies contributed about 70% of the company's total sales, with the Nestlé brand itself contributing 40%. In addition to these brands, the Company has a broad portfolio of brands including Libby's fruit juices, Perrier water, San Pellegrino water, Arrowhead water, Osarka water, Alpo pet food, Ortega Mexican foods, PowerBar energy bars, Stouffer's prepared foods, Lean Cuisine prepared foods, DiGiorno pizza, Carnation beverages, Ovaltine beverages, Dreyer's ice cream, Haagen-Dazs ice cream, Gerber baby food, Butterfinger and Baby Ruth candies, Kit Kat chocolate bars..."

23 posted on 07/18/2012 3:40:51 PM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: upchuck

Not to worry.

Ethanol plants here in Indiana seem to be closing about as fast as K-marts did in the 90s.


24 posted on 07/18/2012 3:44:48 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: gorush
Love the proverb: "Live as if you will die tomorrow, plant as if you will live forever."

Does catch one's eye, doesn't it? Interestingly, it's supposedly one of the pseudo-environmentalists' goals - "sustainability" - yet the actual results of their policies are exactly opposite to their stated goals.

25 posted on 07/18/2012 3:51:22 PM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: nascarnation

I have seen American, British and Japanese fuel lines disintegrate under E10 (and in California, the methanol used before it). Until *very* recently, most fuel line was not rated for or particularly tolerant of ethanol.

Also, it’s not just “shitty Chinese engines” as both Bombardier and Mercury Marine have outright said for many of their models that any amount of alcohol can harm them.


26 posted on 07/18/2012 3:51:34 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Where are they sourcing their polymer parts from?

Chinese stuff is everywhere.

Some of the worst offenders are Weedeater - US engine, carbs from China.


27 posted on 07/18/2012 3:56:31 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Carbonsteel
Let's see... Higher energy prices. Higher food prices. Higher unemployment. Higher health care costs. Higher taxes. Higher debt and deficits.

I think I'm seeing a pattern here.

Nice pattern recognition. Good eye!

28 posted on 07/18/2012 3:58:16 PM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: nascarnation

Other references, including photo proof:

http://www.floridasportsman.com/2012/07/02/ethanol-and-old-outboard-boat-engines/

http://www.fidosysop.org/1204/06/e-15-ethanol-gas-blend-coming-and-could-harm-your-engine/

http://www.rifleandrod.com/2012/07/ethanol-fuel-can-ruin-boat-motors/
Associated picture: http://www.rifleandrod.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/DSC0021.jpg

http://www.pensacolafishingforum.com/f67/my-ethanol-issues-118496/

Also, I have had to retire my former daily driver classic Honda motorcycle and buy something 20 years newer due to e10 gasoline constantly screwing up the carburetors by causing varnish and crap build up (among other problems) in them necessitating constant rebuilds. It has literally cost me thousands of dollars; this stuff is CRAP and the sooner it goes away the better.


29 posted on 07/18/2012 4:02:35 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: nascarnation

I am seeing Gates and Dayco fuel lines lasting months before they begin to crack and check whether running gasoline or diesel.

I am also now seeing vapor lock in summer temperatures on carbed vehicles that I have owned and driven since the late ‘80’s pretty much unchanged.

We just got back from a trip to high altitudes in Colorado and we vapor locked frame mounted electric EFI pump repeatedly that is away from heat sources and below tank level.

And now the idiots at the EPA want to go from 10% ethanol to 15%.


30 posted on 07/18/2012 4:04:30 PM PDT by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: nascarnation

Did you miss the part about “American, British and Japanese”?

My own personal experience has been with parts I know for a fact came from Japan or the US. And E10 destroys them too.


31 posted on 07/18/2012 4:04:30 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: CutePuppy

No mention of the drought that is hitting 26 states.


32 posted on 07/18/2012 4:05:36 PM PDT by rem_mitchell
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To: Clay Moore

And those hoses are made in the US, not China, despite what I’m sure nascarnation will now claim.

The only ‘rubber’ hose I’ve seen hold up to ethanol without degrading significantly is that Goodyear lined (it used to have a blue inner layer, very obvious) stuff that AutoZone carried for a couple years: http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=5144 I still have a stash of that for my vehicles, but that only takes care of connecting the fuel system components, not the components themselves.


33 posted on 07/18/2012 4:09:11 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

100 LL AVGAS my friend. Take a 5 gallon jug to the little local airport and get it for your airboat.


34 posted on 07/18/2012 4:09:56 PM PDT by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: Clay Moore

Love to, but neither of my motorcycles will run for crap on 100LL. Like many engines, they will start having harmful deposits form in the combustion chamber (and elsewhere) if you run more than 87 octane in them as they are optimized for that grade of fuel. Can’t use it in either of my gasoline powered cars due to their catalytic converters and my truck is (fortunately) diesel.


35 posted on 07/18/2012 4:15:09 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Leep
Isn't another problem involve storing wind and solar power?

Yes! High percentage losses in both energy storage and distribution.

Which makes wind completely unsuitable form of energy generation ((along with many other problems related to generation of energy itself, and "unsustainable," to boot, due to the unreliability and unpredictability of the wind stream itself).

Solar can be useful and less expensive, but not as a large "farm" or steam generator (storage and distribution issues) but as niche local energy generator, with panels nearby or attached to buildings where the power is needed.

36 posted on 07/18/2012 4:16:10 PM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: nascarnation

It ruins small engines, mowers, boats etc. It gets crappy mileage. We can only use ethanol on base. I’ve monitored the mileage and its about 5 MPG less with sugar gas.


37 posted on 07/18/2012 4:24:24 PM PDT by USAF80
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To: Spktyr
Did you miss the part about “American, British and Japanese”?.

Just because an assembly is made in America, Britain, or Japan doesn't mean it doesn't have Chinese polymers in it. Either the raw material or the finished part.

That's how the industry works these days.

38 posted on 07/18/2012 4:28:10 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: Clay Moore

I don’t understand your comment about diesel fuel lines.

Biodiesel doesn’t contain ethanol, it has soybean oil.


39 posted on 07/18/2012 4:30:23 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation

Blaming China won’t work here - I know for a fact that some of these things that E-10 has eaten have been all-USA sourced.

And that doesn’t even begin to explain how US and Japanese aluminum and steel (which could not have come from China due to their age) get etched by this shit.


40 posted on 07/18/2012 4:37:31 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Here’s what I got that’s at least 20 yrs old run its whole life on Indiana E10 (FWIW all our gas comes from BP Whiting):

John Deere tractor (Kawasaki)
Wheel Horse tractor (Kohler)
Sears mower (Tecumseh)
MTD mower (Briggs)
MTD trimmer (Mitsubishi)
Sears gen set (Briggs)
Troy-Bilt tiller (Briggs)
Unkn power washer (Honda)
Polaris ATV (Subaru)
67 Camaro

I haven’t seen any of the problems you seem to have. Maybe we got better alky here in corn country.


41 posted on 07/18/2012 4:50:58 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation

All of those (except maybe the Camaro and Polaris) are low RPM low power low heat engines. These seem to be less prone to the problem - but it’s a huge problem for motorcycles and boats for sure, and it’s not unknown even with lawn equipment.

Just because you’re not having problems doesn’t mean that problems aren’t widespread. Also, when was the last time you checked inside the Camaro’s fuel bowls?


42 posted on 07/18/2012 4:59:05 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

I’ll let you know when stuff starts breaking down.
Or maybe I’ll die first.
All my stuff and me is old and getting older.

Well except my other street cars.


43 posted on 07/18/2012 5:02:47 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: nascarnation

More info re: the corn shit gas damaging stuff:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/1900-2000-2600-1950-1968/191780-ethanol-fuel-has-screwed-up-my-carburetors.html

http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/showthread.php?4315-EU2000-Honda-generator-troubleshooting


44 posted on 07/18/2012 5:04:14 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

Why don’t you folks just buy E0 if your having all these problems?
http://pure-gas.org/

I sure would if I was having all the headaches, or maybe avgas like 100LL which is 5 bucks but has some nice lead in it.


45 posted on 07/18/2012 5:10:23 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: rockinqsranch
Do you know the history of those engines? Were they the original engines? Were they rebuilt, or what?

True, maintenance does play a role as well as bum luck itself. I have nothing against biofuels in general but the feds should not be in the business of mandating anything of that sort, period. If there is a way and/or demand, the free market will decide. I think we should be eating our food and not burning it in our engines, we have plenty of oil, coal, methane, etc., here. The two big obstacles are the EPA and Jugears himself.
46 posted on 07/18/2012 5:11:42 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (June 28th, 2012, the Day America Jumped The Shark.)
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To: nascarnation

I have to drive over 60 miles to get to the nearest station selling E0. The economics start not making sense real fast.


47 posted on 07/18/2012 5:13:27 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: nascarnation

Hit post too soon - E0 is not available within economical radius of most people in the US thanks to EPA mandates.


48 posted on 07/18/2012 5:18:15 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr
It is proven to be ruining smaller engines, such as those in boats, lawn equipment, and motorcycles. Some of them have their carbs destroyed, others are actually seeing destructive deposits in the engine proper.

It’s less of an issue with cars, but older carbureted cars are having fuel system problems as are older fuel-injected cars that are needing to have every rubber part (and the injectors) replaced because of it.


I work in an auto parts store and we do carry additives for older cars to help with the ethanol problem. I'll have to take a closer look at it though.
49 posted on 07/18/2012 5:21:44 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (June 28th, 2012, the Day America Jumped The Shark.)
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To: nascarnation

I don’t understand it either. I finally went to the new high dollar low VOC pass thru jacketed line to see if I can get some durability.

I would think it would be cracking from the inside out if it was the diesel fuel. What I see is fine checking on the outside jacket followed by cracks on the end of the hose that progress further inside over time. I have split the line and don’t see checks in the middle of inner line. I don’t see where (max) 10% waste engine oil (mostly) or mineral based hydraulic fluid (rarely) should wipe it out. It lasts a few months.

It wouldn’t be so bad but the tank switch valve is even with the front of the side tank and so you can hardly get to the lines.


50 posted on 07/18/2012 5:24:34 PM PDT by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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