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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

“Not so. They were also used as shotguns by militia members. Many of the Kentucky style “rifles” were actually smoothbores. Does that make them a “military style” firearm?”

I must respectfully disagree. The term “Rifle” implies rifling. Some units during the revolutionary war used “rifles”, but these were for “sharpshooters” (snipers).

“After the Civil War many rifled muskets were de-milled by reaming out the rifling and grinding off the bayonet lug. They were then given or sold to the public, after all, they were PUBLIC PROPERTY.”

By the civil war the “rifle musket” was the standard military firearm. The Minnie Ball made this possible, plus increased the range and accuracy of the weapon....with devasting effects against military personel still using Revolutionary/Napoleonic style attackes. By removing the rifling, you rendered a musket (in the post civil war era) no longer suitable for military use. Actually, I don’t think you have your facts correct here either though. Most civil war rifle muskets were modified to make them breach loaders using cartridge. Many of the modified arms were given to states for their militias.

Whatever that doesn’t change the point that the term “bear arms” refered to military weaponry. In revolutionary times these were primarily smoothbores. This changed with time.

BTW = Please correct me if I have misread you, but you seem to be taking an anti-2nd Ammendment viewpoint that military style firearms are guaranteed for possesion by individual citizens.

If you take an anti-2nd ammendment view...it is not welcome on this forum and will get you zotted.


76 posted on 07/25/2012 8:35:05 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: Sola Veritas

***I must respectfully disagree. The term “Rifle” implies rifling.***

I agree with you. Rifles were used by some units. Those we call Kentucky Rifles are rifles, but some were smoothbores. I used to have an article on those smooth bore firearms and from the outside they looked just like a fancy rifle.

George Washington had a preference for smooth bore muskets because they could be loaded fast and they had a lug for a bayonet.

After civil war, many rifled muskets were sold to Bannerman’s where they were demilled by having the rifling removed and the bayonet lug ground off, then sold to the public. the reason was a farmer had more use for a shotgun than a solid ball rifle. I had the pleasure of holding one of those in my hand about 50 years ago.

The BRITISH took their .577 muskets and converted them to breach loaders using the Snider patent. The US army chose the 50/70 cartridge and it does not fit any .58 US or confederate .577 musket.

After the Civil War, the US army in the west received breach loading rifles. Some posts gave them to settlers heading west as they felt the settlers needed them more than the army at that time as the settlers were going into Indian Country.

US .50/70 breach loading rifles could be sold to the public as hunting rifles. Many traders bought them and traded with the Indians as the Indians loved that “needle gun” for buffalo hunts.

In the 1920s the US arsenals made the 1903 rifle for the US army. They also made a sporting version and sold it to the public but were forced to stop as they were cutting into the business of Remmington, Winchester and Savage. This is also the real reason why certain members of the Congress hated army surplus rifles in the 1960s.

I have been pro-SECOND AMMENDMENT since before that travesty the 1968 gun control act became law, and I am pro- now having owned more guns that would make a lib loose bladder control than you a even think of.


78 posted on 07/26/2012 7:25:11 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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