Skip to comments.DHS Buys in Bulk to Save You Money (Ammunition)
Posted on 08/15/2012 7:53:45 AM PDT by Strategerist
The congressman has received some letters and emails regarding the Department of Homeland Securitys (DHS) recent purchase of a large amount of ammunition and other equipment. Obviously the thought of one branch of our federal government potentially stock piling weapons and/or ammunition is of great concern. For that reason, the congressman wanted me to let you know the full story on this issue.
DHS contracted with a manufacturer for 40 caliber ammunition not to exceed 450 million rounds. Like with most of their contracts, prior to negotiating DHS headquarters in Washington reaches out to all the agencies under their umbrella, including state and local police forces, Customs and Border Patrol (CBP), etc, and asks them all how much of a certain item they need. Once they have an account of the full amount of an item needed and have reviewed those requests, they put out a request for an Indefinite Delivery Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) contract. This contract allows them to purchase up to a certain number of needed items without requiring them to purchase a specific item and allows them to purchase this item over a certain number of years. This is a common form of contract used by DHS for many of their needed supplies, including working dogs, computer equipment, vehicles, etc.
In this case, DHS entered into a contract that allows them to purchase up to 450 million rounds of 40 caliber ammunition over the next five years. They cannot exceed 450 million rounds and are not required to purchase 450 million rounds. Basically, they have a tab with a manufacturer to order more rounds as they are needed over the next five years not a onetime ammunition order.
Setting up contracts in this manner allows for a cheaper purchase price, saving money over the long-term. In fact, contracts like this one saved taxpayers $336 million in FY2011 alone. Additionally, purchasing in bulk like this helps DHS headquarter conduct better oversight over its agencies and ensures consistency among all the agencies under DHS. So, in this case CPB, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the U.S. Secret Service, and other DHS agencies will all use the same 40 caliber round so these rounds can move between agencies if need be another way to potentially save money down the road.
To put this more concisely, just like you and your family take that monthly trip to Sams Club or Costco to get your bulk needs cheaply, DHS also buys in bulk because it saves the American taxpayers money.
If you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isnt that large of an order. Especially considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this IDIQ ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement personnel (or about 155 rounds per month (about 10 magazines worth of ammo per month) or 3-4 rounds per day) assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.
In this post-9/11 world we need to make sure those who are tasked with protecting our homeland both from threats abroad and at home have the training and equipment needed to carry out their duties to help ensure our way of life. Firearm proficiency is an important part of any federal officers training and for that reason the purchase of sufficient amounts of ammunition is critical to maintaining an effective protective force. However, with all government spending Congress needs to keep an eye out for any mismanagement or misappropriation of funds in federal agencies, and the congressman will continue to be vigilant on this front to ensure our nations tax dollars are being spent wisely. He wants to thank all of his constituents for bringing this issue to his attention and encourages everyone to continue to reach out to him with any questions or concerns they may have.
Kevin Doran is Congressman Westmorelands deputy chief of staff and handles Second Amendment and national defense issues.
Even though it's a staffer for a Republican Congressman, for those enthralled by fantasies of defending your bunker full of canned food against hordes of Obama's DHS agents, I'm sure it will be proclaimed as disinformation and all part of the conspiracy.
No, but it is certainly evidence that our Founders would be appalled by the “standing army” we must fund and endure (you may include militarized local law enforcement in that).
My only question is why NOAA needs 46,000 hollow point rounds. Are they defending against pirates?
600,000 Rounds to Capitol Police!:
("The United States Capitol Police, Training Services Bureau has a requirement to procure the following Ammunitions: 1. (600) 165 Grain Gold Dot Hollow Point, 40 S&W, 1,000/Case - 53970; NOTE: Ship in 2 equal shipments of 300,000 rds each. The first delivery no later than September 30, 2012 and second delivery no later than December 30, 2012." )
Armed EPA OIG:
("SIG Sauer Model P229 Semi-Automatic Pistol (P229); E29R-357-BSS-G; Caliber .357 SIG; DA/SA old style Alloy Frame; Stainless Slide; Black Nitron Finish; DA/SA Trigger; Supplied with three MecGar twelve (12)-round magazines and Trijicon three (3) Dot (White ? Glow Green) Night Sights; Milled locking inserts; and, Manufacturer carry case. ")
Weather Service Buys 46000 Rounds of Illegal Hollow Point Bullets: NOAA Needs Hollow Points?
(A solicitation which appears on the FedBizOpps website asks for 16,000 rounds of .40 S&W jacketed hollow point (JHP) bullets, noted for their strength, to be delivered to locations in Ellsworth, Maine, and New Bedford, Mass. A further 6,000 rounds of S&W JHP will be sent to Wall, New Jersey, with another 24,000 rounds of the same bullets heading to the weather station in St. Petersburg, Florida. )
A sensible analysis.
Hopefully the Congresscritter recognizes _why_ so many are freaking out about it, and takes that reaction seriously.
Dude. They are buying 450 million rounds. That’s not good no matter how you slice it.
They're kidding, right?
OK, let's do a math and comparison on a smaller scale, based on their numbers......say 1 percent. If I had a legally armed group of 700 people buying 4.5 million rounds over the next 5 years, do you think the government would be concerned about it and investigating us?
You need plenty of ammo when you’re sitting around shooting the breeze.
There is more than likely a mass quantity of beer and pork skins included on the list.
I guess the fair question is to compare these purchases to previous Administrations. Surely if the job requires you to carry, there is going to be Range time. Also what is shelf life of ammo?
I’ll hold my concerned until these questions are answered.
~50,000 rounds? meh. Many individual FReepers have that much, or aspire thereto.
A half-million rounds? See prior comment, multiply by 10.
A half-billion rounds? For domestic use? the math may prove sensible ... and, with prudent suspicion, justifies individuals stocking up.
How many LEOs go through 10 magazines a month? My father in law went 31 years on the job in NYC and never fired his weapon outside the range. There he fired 40 rounds four times a year. Till this past week my cousin had never fired his weapon more than that after seven years on the job, but he put rounds on the Times Square knife nut. Also, does every DHS LEO carry a 40 cal? I don’t know, but I would think a lot still carry 9mm and some, like the guys at Soc Sec offices still carry revolvers. 450 million rounds still seems a bit excessive.
Well I respect Lynn Westmoreland but what about the additional 750 thousand rounds and the 46,000 rounds from the weather service?
Well I respect Lynn Westmoreland but what about the additional 750 thousand rounds and the 46,000 rounds from the weather service?
DHS has only been around for a decade. Not many prior administrations to compare to (i.e.: Bush 2), and ramp-up must be considered.
A couple thousand rounds per year is a decent ballpark for basic range time.
Ammo shelf life is pretty much unlimited. Basic rule of thumb: it’s a shelf-stable consumable whose price will always go up, so buy as much as you can as soon as you can.
Crunch the numbers with these principles, and the half-billion number is sensible ... but also justifies raising eyebrows.
Ammunition, properly stored, lasts for decades.
What I notice about these bulk government buys is that they're buying premium hollowpoint cartridges for practice.
That's BS. If it's really practice ammo, they should be buying FMJ like sane folks do.
Under NOAA’s rather large umbrella is a small specialized security group. 46,000 rounds isn’t much, a sensible amount for 23 armed agents for a year, or 5 for 5 years.
Practice with what you’ll stake your life on.
“In fact, there are 65,000 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS”
Why don’t I believe that all of these carry a weapon, which would use 40 caliber.
I’m not necessarily freaked out by the fact its ammo...but I am freaked out by the potential for goovernment waste.
I’ve seen how this works, while in the Army. More than once, I was instructed to burn through magazines of blanks, in order to ‘get rid’ of them (i.e. not go through the trouble of turning it back in).
And why stockpile?...or ‘shore up their supplies’ as stated in the letter? I don’t think we, as a nation, have the money to be ‘shoring up supplies’ of stuff.
Indefinite delivery? Yep, 5 years of no competition is sure to save money.
Lets spell out exactly what happened here - DHS had money left in the budget, so they decided to spend it on something...anything will do. Its the government way. Imagine if every agency did this...wait...they do!
Again, I’m not freaked out about the product...I just continue to be disappointed in how government operates.
You do realize that you area talking about the government procurement process...right? There is NOTHING sane about it; bad intentions, or not.
Sane people practice with what they use.
You are mistaking "sane" for "cheap."
450,000,000 rounds is yesterday’s news. That number has now been upped dramatically and includes much more than 40 S&W. But, the original order (450,000,000) was for JHP’s, those are not for range. If they are, someone at DHS needs to have their neck rung as they’re throwing money out the window. FMJ’s or lead (outdoor ranges) would be much cheaper.
So much for the saving taxpayer’s money argument.
Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping!
To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you need to threaten to report me to the Admin if I dont add you to the list...
Because there are NOAA Law Enforcement agents.
It was so kind of Mr. Westmoreland to confirm in writing certain suspicions that both state and local police forces had in fact become de facto organs of the Federal government despite previous claims to the contrary having been given to the public.
I don't believe all of these fall under "law enforcement" excluding all in office and clerical personnel.
“In June the Secret Service was shopping for “40,000 rounds with two options for 20,000 rounds” of Winchester .300 Magnums. Awarded to an outfit in Rapid City June 30, if we’re reading it and all to be delivered before year end.)”
.300 WinMag ammo is used by government for sniper operations. It is primarily used by AgencyPerson snipers such as the infamous Lon Horiuchi, who shot Weaver in the back when Weaver was seeking cover and who shot and killed Weavers wife and child.
This ammo is for sniper use inside the USA by government snipers like Lon Horiuchi, and WILL BE USED AGAINST US.
This probably deserves it's own thread but pass it far and wide.
And oh, just keep it between us conspiracy theorists, k?
Well, then... I feel better already. /s
Forgot to ping on above.
Looks to me like its a coordinated inter-agency effort to disrupt the national ammo market rather than to over-arm itself against the population. Who in the federal government needs this many bullets, even if they wanted to shoot down Americans in the tens of thousands. And where are they going to store it all?
You are trying to use rational thought for an irrational act.
We are dealing with leftist Marxist. They do not have tactical thoughts. As far as disrupting the amo market, forget it. We have bought more than enough amo to take out the Chinese and Indian armies combined.
Remember a few years ago at the height of the war in Iraq when none of us could buy ammo in certain popular calibers because the military was buying it all up for use by the troops?
It must be nice to have unlimited resources.
I don’t. Fedzilla doesn’t either, and they need to quit pretending otherwise.
it is getting weirder and weirder
OK, now I’m getting concerned.
DHS, a billion rounds? startling, but explanation is tepidly satisfying.
NOAA, any amount? odd, but explanation is tepidly satisfying.
Secret Service? well yeah. It’s their job.
Capital Police? likewise. It’s their job.
EPA? um, that’s a lot of nifty detail for what sounds like one purchase.
Social Security? ok, but...
...wait a minute. That’s a lot of gov’t agencies buying a lot of ammo all at the same time. Either we’re just all waking up to a common unreported occurrence, or...well...
Interesting theory, until we note that it’s for little more than .40 HP and .300 Win Mag, and those of very precise descriptions.
If they’re trying to clear the shelves they’re not buying enough quantity of enough range of calibers. To clear the shelves to deny public access, they’d have to submit an order for “everything you’ve got - 9mm, .45, .38, .308, .223, HP, FMJ, boattail, ... EVERYTHING.” It’s also too late: we’ve already stocked up.
I guess you missed this thread then...DHS Orders 750 Million More Rounds Of Ammo...my reply #71.
Watch the video. .223, shotgun, .45, .38, 30-06...a huge list.
You have to watch the video to see it all laid out.
Or view the pdf...HSFLGL-12-B-00003-000001.pdf
I would enjoy hearing what you've got to say afterwards.
See reply 40.
If it covers a broad range, then it does. Too many claims/allegations thrown around to keep it all straight.
If it covers a broad range, then it does.
If you track it down to the source you'll see that it does.
Too many claims/allegations thrown around to keep it all straight.
How can it be an "allegation" when it's right there in black and white?
Corrected link at 44.
Most discussion is not rooted in the actual text.
Don’t be combative when I’m being conciliatory.
It's not so much the quantity of ammo that concerns me, as the quality of the ammo.
You don't need premium ammo for practice.
If you simply had one idiot buying premium ammo for practice that would be one thing. You could just write them off as an idiot, but this is now 4 or 5 doing the same thing, and not all of them are idiots.