Posted on 08/27/2012 10:03:32 PM PDT by JediJones
To fairly handle the text, this scripture in 2 John is addressing false teachers within the church, not politicians outside of it.
a) There is nothing in the context of 2 John anywhere that explicitly limits the “godspeed” passage to only those thought to be fellow Christians. The households of that day were given to a general hospitality. Any stranger could show up on your doorstep and there would be a cultural expectation of taking them in and meeting their basic needs, such as food, water, rest, etc. John is here telling Christians the stakes are so high you can’t even let these people into your home, or even so much as wish them well on their journey, if they bring an antichrist doctrine, such as the Gnostics were doing in John’s day, and such as the Mormons bring now (their eternal progression toward deity is a defining attribute of Gnosticism).
b) Even if your artificial limitation were accepted, that the "no godspeed" rule only applies in the case of professing Christians, it would still apply to Romney and the modern Mormon apologists, including those here at FR, because Romney and the Mormons coming in his wake are falling all over themselves trying to get us believe they are Christians. Furthermore, judging from the conversations here at FR, many of our less critical thinkers are perfectly happy to accept that premise and routinely accuse us old-schoolers of being anti-Mormon bigots, simply for saying what the older Mormons used to say themselves, that they are not Christians, but something quite different.
So if we accept Romney at his word, that he is a professing Christian, then we are compelled, by your own admission, to comply with 2 John 1:10-12 respecting him. If we vote for him, are we not doing much more than just wishing him well? Are we not inviting him into our house, the people’s house, inviting him to have influence and power over us? Is that not the whole purpose for John warning us against such antichrists, that they should have no influence over us?
And the consequence if we violate these God-breathed instructions? We become tainted with whatever damage they do, and the damage they do is severe. As Jesus said:
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. [7] Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
Do you see the bigger picture here? This is not about elections or earthly power. Go look up “theocracy.” This is not about theocracy, has absolutely nothing to do with politicizing Christianity. This is about obeying the plain teaching of the Holy Spirit in the word of God. We are not to give such antichrists the time of day because to do so not only exposes us to their spiritual corruption, but it gives them credibility in the eyes of other believers, who may be severely harmed by their blasphemies, their aspirations to self-deification, their enormous hubris, which is the same deep well from which Lucifer drank.
I will give you credit for one thing. It is true that God raises up rulers and takes them down as He sees fit. However, what you miss is the example of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. They were believers living under pagan the pagan king Nebuchadnezzar. But they did not come into this condition voluntarily. They did not give him power over them by a vote. And when given the choice between honoring his false gods or dying, they did not waver. They put their trust in God, and did not consent to or in any way sanction the wicked idolatry of the king. And God spared them for their faith, not in man, but in God.
We live in and love this country. We seek to do all possible good for our country. But we remain, first and foremost, Christians, pilgrims in a foreign land, with expectations of one day arriving in our true homeland, the eternal kingdom of God, with our "papers" still intact.
So when, as it sometimes happens, we must choose between apparent certain destruction versus turning to a false teacher of antichristian idolatry for deliverance, we must put all our trust in God, and step willingly into that fiery furnace, rather than sell our souls for a few more years of this short, troublesome mortal life we live. We are eternal souls. This brief flirtation with earthly life will be over, and what will we have if we turn from God to pretenders?
Peace,
SR
It is a real world occurrence. I merely asked the original question to find out how dedicated to “no exceptions” a person is. Some may not like it but I will always support the termination of a pregnancy if the mother’s life is at stake. Some will flame me for whatever reason but that does NOT make me a troll
And by the by from my perspective, the unborn child is ALWAYS a baby....
Trolling FReepers with responses that are completely not pertinent to what was originally posted, is also the work of Satan.
And by the by for you...
You have some nerve playing the victim card about people supposedly flaming you, but you are the one admitting trolling people about this.
I don’t make it my business to “test people” about anything. That is a way to Troll.
State your own opinion without challenging others about when the baby “always dies”. Really, if that is something you think you can beat people with - that is really weak.
I made my opinion very clear. My question was not a ‘test’ it was a legtimate question. Be as mad as you want. I consider an unborn child to be just that a child. I am pro life....I also understand when a woman choses her life over that of her child’s.
Not mad at all.
My original statement still stands.
Have a nice day Trolling.
First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, 2for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. 3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.1 Tim:2
This prayer isn't for Christian politicians, obviously. Back to my point about God's sovereign use of authority, good or evil. And then immediately back to yours. Both are valid because we live in a fallen world. Government, as Paul seems to suggest above, is not salvific in itself but remedial in holding fallen man in check so we can function as a society and "seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us."
Thank you for fleshing out 2 John. I don't disagree, but find myself wondering if we have any business at all in politics. If we do, my thoughts here have been to the purpose of: WHO IS THE BEST CANDIDATE AT THE PRESENT TIME TO ENABLE US TO "...lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity"? That person is not always going to be a Christian, though I'd be happy if they were.
I also struggle with the easy "cutting off our nose to spite our face" dismissal of our imperfect Founders that follows from a purist approach to worldly leadership. If God is sovereign, did He not use them to make this "great country" we all carp about? That is my emphasis, that it is God who uses sinful men to do His will for the betterment of all. Are we not greatful for the medical and scientific inventions and discoveries of many an atheist? We don't praise them, we praise our Father in Heaven for using the gifts he gave them—even if unwittingly—to discover the secrets of His creation.
I do consider Mormonism a cult. I don't fear Romney trying to force Mormonism on us, though (as I would an Islamist). I just don't think we believers have any Biblical warrant to demand from unbelievers the impossible. If they do what He instituted authority to do—keep order—that's enough.
Thank you for taking the time to talk about this. Bless you.I
It really doesn't matter what I know in my heart to be true, you will think what you think. I am not a professional writer, perhaps that explains the disconnect. Or maybe you have a mindset that takes others' words in and forces them to mean what you want, regardless of their honest protestations.
Regardless, Jesus is Lord and HE is the issue, not you, me, Romney or government.
Your posts are clear, you want Christians to leave Mormonism alone,to vote for the Bishop, and to shut up.
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