Obama lawyer warned against certifying eligibility

wnd.com ^

[butterdezillion]

If he didn’t say it he didn’t do it. If Aug 4, 1961 is not on that verification, then that date has not been verified. Who by looking at that verification - which is a stand-alone legal document - would ever be able to say that Onaka verified an Aug 4, 1961 birth?

Let me put it this way. If Alvin Onaka gets a request to verify that Donald Duck was born in Honolulu on Sept 11, 2001 and has a non-valid birth certificate (written on toilet paper) in his office claiming that Donald Duck was born in Honolulu on Sept 11, 2001.... how does HRS 338-14.3 require him to respond to that request?

[AustinBill]

You can skip the second paragraph as it will come through loud and clear by implication without having to be said. The legal machinery for a swift reversal of the past four years could be put together very quickly.

The whole eligibility question is being avoided now, as it has been for the past four years, because nobody wants a Constitutional crisis. Once a new administration is in place, however, there is no longer any such impediment and things could move a lot quicker than many realize.

I'd expect Romney to quietly renominate Kagan and Sotomayor to the S.C. to preserve the constitutional legitimacy of the court. In exchange for immunity from prosecution, watch for Congress to be unusually cooperative in rolling back whatever programs Romney requests.

Romney is clearly a smart politician. Want instant popular support for all this? Make the disbanding of TSA one of the first orders of business.

[Ray76]

We have a Constitutional crisis. For the past four years we have sought redress only to be turned away by courts' procedural contrivances or opinions that are baseless declarations unsupported by findings of fact or cogent explication of law.

[AustinBill]

There’s a difference between a potential crisis and an actual one. Right now there are questions. Legitimate questions to be sure, but questions which are being studiously avoided because to answer them would potentially create a real crisis. Until the breech is sealed nobody is going to go there. That message should be clear from the way this whole mess has been handled from the beginning by all sides.

[tsowellfan]

The whole eligibility question is being avoided now, as it has been for the past four years, because nobody wants a Constitutional crisis. Once a new administration is in place, however, there is no longer any such impediment and things could move a lot quicker than many realize.

And what if a sector of the democrat party suddenly become birthers and call for new elections claiming that their candidate was not legally eligible to run against Mitt Romney?

Hillary Clinton has been referred to as "the original birther".

[tsowellfan]

We have a Constitutional crisis

It may actually show its ugly face if Romney wins in a landslide. Hillary supporters may suddenly become birthers and call for new elections. The democrat candidate was not eligible.

[MrB]

I know judges have ruled otherwise,
but there is no Constitutional requirement for someone to have to have opposition in a presidential election.

If 0bama is not eligible, and Romney wins bigtime, it’s really a moot point. The win is not illegitimate because his opponent was not legitimate.

[edge919]

All Bennett was looking for was a piece of paper that looked slightly more official than Obama’s forgeries, providing an excuse to sweep this under the carpet. I’m pretty sure he was stunned by Hawaii’s foot-dragging, but not enough to see how the issue was not legally resolved.

[mo]

The REAL interesting question...IMHO...is who exactly in Hawaii will be paid “35 million” for their property?

http://hillbuzz.org/the-obamas-already-preparing-for-move-to-hawaii-in-january-2013-hyde-park-neighbors-talking-about-chicago-house-being-sold-soon-63935

[Diamond]

If he didn’t say it he didn’t do it. If Aug 4, 1961 is not on that verification, then that date has not been verified. Who by looking at that verification - which is a stand-alone legal document - would ever be able to say that Onaka verified an Aug 4, 1961 birth?

The document is NOT a stand-alone legal document because it explicitly incorporates by reference the information in the copy of the Certificate of Live Birth that was sent to him by Bennett. I wouldn't bet a nickel on ANY court of law rejecting this verification and certification as invalid, or an Aug 4, 1961 birth date by incorporation.

Let me put it this way. If Alvin Onaka gets a request to verify that Donald Duck was born in Honolulu on Sept 11, 2001 and has a non-valid birth certificate (written on toilet paper) in his office claiming that Donald Duck was born in Honolulu on Sept 11, 2001.... how does HRS 338-14.3 require him to respond to that request?

To designate an analogized Donald Duck birth certificate written on toilet paper as "non-valid" is just to assume the very thing you're trying to prove; namely, that the Certificate of Live Birth on file with the Department of Health is phony.

The Certificate of Live Birth on file with the Department of Health may be altered, amended or phony but there is no way I can think of to prove it except by independent forensic examination of the original documents. There is just nothing legally deficient about this verification and certification, imo.

Cordially,

[Ray76]

That questions remain unanswered for years is an actual crisis.

Suppose it is found that the father is Frank Marshall Davis. In this case Obama would be eligible. There would be political consequences certainly, and legal consequence for the crimes of forgery and fraud. But the great crimes of espionage and treason would not have occurred.

Suppose his father is as claimed. In this case Obama would not be eligible. Again, there would be political consequences and legal consequences for the crimes of forgery and fraud. But these are dwarfed by the great crimes of espionage and treason which would have occurred.

For four years he has failed to properly present credentials demonstrating eligibility. His steadfast refusal to do so indicates only one thing: ineligibility.

The crisis is here now.

[butterdezillion]

I spoke with three attorneys about this. My legal reasoning is sound. The law is clear: if the submitted fact is true, the HDOH has to issue a verification that that fact is true. If it’s not true, the HDOH can’t verify that fact as true.

Nowhere on that page does it say that Barack Hussein Obama was born on Aug 4, 1961 in Honolulu on the island of Oahu to mother Stanley Ann Dunham and father BArack Hussein Obama.

And he didn’t even INDIRECTLY oonfirm that those facts are true, as you assert. He verified that those facts are CLAIMED on their record, but what does that mean legally if the record they have is not legally valid? Where does he ever say that the record is valid or that any of the stuff on the record actually happened that way?

Answer that please. You have skirted all my questions.

I’ll give you a statement and you tell me what this means.

“I verify:

1: name of person: Joe Biden
2. cost: $5.”

What did I just verify?

[Natufian]

Does the Hawaii DOH keep a registry of invalid birth certificates?

[Natufian]

the PDF the White hut used was NOT sent by Hawaii

That's not what Hawaii DOH says;

"On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth...."

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/obama.html

[butterdezillion]

BTW, I am not saying that the BC on file in Hawaii is phony. I’m saying that if it was legally valid - submitted in proper time with the proper information and validating signatures, and not having major changes made to it - then Onaka would have to say (verify) that Barack Hussein Obama II, male, WAS born in Honolulu, HI on the island of Oahu to mother Stanley Ann Dunham and father Barack Hussein Obama.

This is standard procedure. It’s in the statute. You can’t have a legal document that simply says, “What you said. I certify that.” That’s called a signed blank check. If that was allowable, a person could take that verification from Onaka and claim that the document Onaka referenced was one that claimed Obama was born in 1776 to Grandma Moses and the doctor who signed the document was Dr. Kevorkian. Where in that document would you ever be able to prove that claim wrong if somebody submitted Onake’s letter of verification in a court of law?

That is not how this is done, and there is a very good reason it is not done this way.

And that is why the 3 attorneys I spoke to agreed that a failure to specifically state that Barack Hussein Obama, II, male, WAS BORN on Aug 4, 1961 in Honolulu on the island of Oahu to mother Stanley Ann Dunham and father Barack Hussein Obama means a failure to verify those facts. If he did’t say it he didn’t do it. To allow this “I certify what you said” crap would be a signed blank check that would wreak havoc on the entire legal system.

Onaka would not verify those facts even though they are claimed on the record they have. It is ONAKA who is saying that there is something wrong with this record.

[dinodino]

I agree, Diamond. I’m sorry, butter, but I don’t think you’re getting anywhere with this parsing.

Something is up, and the Dystel biography proves it. I think Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii but claimed foreign birth during his college years.

[Natufian]

I think Onaka verified the whole certificate when he sent this...

[dinodino]

Yes, I agree completely.

Playing word games with responses from the Hawaii DOH is a losing battle.

I would be *all over* that Dystel biography. Also, I recently saw an article from a student paper at Harvard that suggested that Obama’s history was an enigma to his classmates at the time. I think he made up African birth to get special favor and to make himself seem exotic.

[Ray76]

I think you’re missing the point. The “verification” letter does not preclude an amended or late filing. A certified “true and accurate copy” would reveal a late filing or amendments.

[Natufian]

Yep, I think that at some point he used his ‘foreignness’ narrative to gain an advantage, either financially or educationally. He’s desperate that that not come out.