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Obamacare and Romneycare Are Not Identical
Townhall ^ | 10/04/2012 | Debra Saunders

Posted on 10/04/2012 7:42:48 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

There are a lot of differences between Obamacare and Romneycare, even though President Barack Obama said that the two plans were based on an "identical model" during the first presidential debate in Denver on Wednesday night.

"We've seen this model work very well," Obama said, "in Massachusetts."

Wrong, countered Mitt Romney. As Massachusetts governor, he passed a health care plan "on a bipartisan basis."

President Obama, said Romney, "instead of bringing America together," rammed through a bill that garnered no support across the aisle. "Something this big, this important," Romney concluded, "has to be done on a bipartisan basis."

Note this: Romney had to work with Democrats. They constituted 87 percent of the Massachusetts Legislature. In Obama's first two years in the White House, Democrats controlled the House and enjoyed a veto-proof majority in the Senate. Obama was able to pass his bill without courting GOP votes. Still, it was a poor choice with consequences.

Obama sulked that his plan was based on a Republican idea. It begs the question, Why did he fail to win a single Republican vote?

If he cannot sell Republicans on what he says is a GOP idea, what good is he?

Obamacare and Romneycare are not identical. They are very different. Romney worked to promote flexibility; Obama and the Democrats imposed uniformity. Romney worked to limit mandates in Massachusetts health care; Obama and a Democratic Congress threw a host of goodies, such as an end to copayments for "preventive care," into the Affordable Care Act. Employers will have to pay for service for which workers used to chip in.

This administration has refined passing the hat. With Congress, the president enacted mandates -- "free" birth control, adult children's being able to stay on their parents' plans up to age 26 -- for which Washington pols do not have to pay. They don't even have to pretend that Congress will have to pay in the future. The private sector pays.

"If you've got health insurance," Obama said of his plan, "it doesn't mean a government takeover."

It's a government takeover without government fiscal responsibility.

Early in the debate, Romney quipped that Obama seems to have levied an "economy tax." Well put. What employer wants to hire new workers when that employer knows that Washington pols know that they can add new mandates at no cost to themselves?

Even before Obamacare goes into full effect, it's clear that this model cannot, as the president promised, "get the cost down so it's more affordable." That's not mathematically possible.

Now that everyone knows that Washington can find services dear to politically important demographic groups and make other people pay for them, there is no controlling health care costs.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: healthcare; obamacare; romneycare

1 posted on 10/04/2012 7:42:50 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Good article! Thanks for posting it.

Last night’s debate, did Obama take social security off the table as an election issue?

It kind of sounded like it to me.


2 posted on 10/04/2012 7:44:46 AM PDT by tsowellfan
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To: SeekAndFind

Please do not try and defend RomneyCare


3 posted on 10/04/2012 7:49:05 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL

Maybe you did not understand but Romney made it clear that it is up to the states not for the federal government to deal with healthcare.


4 posted on 10/04/2012 7:51:03 AM PDT by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Identical twins aren’t identical either. (Genetically, yes, but not once they start growing; then experience differentiates.)


5 posted on 10/04/2012 7:51:52 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: GeronL

Maybe you did not understand but Romney made it clear that it is up to the states not for the federal government to deal with healthcare. It’s called federalism , it’s called limiting the federal government as the founders intended and for the states to be labs.


6 posted on 10/04/2012 7:52:42 AM PDT by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: Tublecane

Romney wants to limit the federal government and let the states do most things as is in the constitution.


7 posted on 10/04/2012 7:53:44 AM PDT by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: SeekAndFind
So here's what this article says is the difference:
8 posted on 10/04/2012 7:54:37 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: SeekAndFind

This article highlights one important major difference between Obama and Romney, although it’s not the one the author intended.

Romney can get “conservatives” to support socialism, and Obama can’t.


9 posted on 10/04/2012 7:54:37 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (If your only choice is evil, you've either died and gone to hell, or you're a Republican.)
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To: Democrat_media

The federalism argument has always been weak. (AntiObamacarers certainly oppose it for more reasons than that it’s unconstitutional). Anyway, Obama wasn’t arguing that Mitt wants a national Romneycare, just that Obamacare borrowed heavily from Romneycare. Which is inarguable.


10 posted on 10/04/2012 7:57:18 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: SeekAndFind
Don't try to tell me that Romneycare is anything but a socialist takeover of medicine. Just because he's "our guy" doesn't mean we have to swallow all his BS.
11 posted on 10/04/2012 7:59:14 AM PDT by Paine in the Neck (Socialism consumes everything)
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To: EternalVigilance

Maybe you did not understand but Romney made it clear that it is up to the states not for the federal government to deal with healthcare. It’s called federalism , it’s called limiting the federal government as the founders intended and for the states to be labs.

The constitution limits the federal government and grants most powers to the states. Romney showed he is for limiting the federal government , repealing Obamacare, reducing regulations,privatizing medicare. Get it back into the states. do you understand that constitutional principle? All you can do is use liberal media spin to bash Romney


12 posted on 10/04/2012 7:59:31 AM PDT by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: Democrat_media

Romney made it real clear in a USA TODAY column advising Obama in about 2009 to implement a national version of RomneyCare.

Am I supposed to pretend it never happened? Romney wanted it national, no use to pretend otherwise.


13 posted on 10/04/2012 8:00:11 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Democrat_media

I don’t actually believe that, but will accept it at least as regards Obamacare. That being said just because states can do things doesn’t mean they should. Just because Romneycare wasn’t unconstitutional like Obamacare doesn’t mean Romney should have supported it. Nor do his federalist convictions absolve him of responsibility for inspiring bigger plans.


14 posted on 10/04/2012 8:00:43 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane

Guess you didn’t listen to the debate or didn’t understand it.

Romney said it’s not for the federal government to limit our freedom and choices in healthcare.


15 posted on 10/04/2012 8:00:49 AM PDT by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: DannyTN

RE: The way they were passed.
Obamacare has no Copayments.
Obamacare has free birth control.
Obamacare children can stay on parent’s plan up to age 26.
Is that it???

________________________

I’m not very familiar with Romneycare, but here are a few questions that come to mind:

1) Has it brought down healthcare cost for tax payers in MA?

2) How’s the healthcare COST for the state? Is it in deficit? surplus, or balance?

3) Can patients choose their doctors under Romneycare? Do doctors accept patients under the plan?

4) Does Romneycare have something similar to Obamacare’s unaccountable 15 person IPAB ( A.K.A Sarah Palin’s “death panels” )?


16 posted on 10/04/2012 8:01:53 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (bOTRT)
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To: Democrat_media

All you’ve done on this thread is repeat talking points. Talk about spin.


17 posted on 10/04/2012 8:03:14 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: SeekAndFind

Obamacare is about moving more cash to DC..so politicians can steal it...they could care less about what people need. Most states have healthcare for people who need it.


18 posted on 10/04/2012 8:05:35 AM PDT by dalebert
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To: Tublecane
Guess you didn’t listen to the debate or didn’t understand it.

Romney said it’s not for the federal government to limit our freedom and choices in healthcare.

Everything Romney said was for limiting the federal government. Romney said he will repeal Obamacare, repeal dod frank, reduce regulations , even privatize medicare. you all probably didn't understand any of that. Not even Reagan proposed privatizing medicare. oh yeah even that is not Conservative to you all. Romney said he thinks the free market works better than government and will allow the private sector to compete with medicare so that will be the destruction of medicare. but you call that a socialist when it is the opposite . that's called freedom , limiting the FEDERAL government as the constitution intended. if the people(nuts) in Massachusetts want some socialist program let them , that is the lab.

19 posted on 10/04/2012 8:05:59 AM PDT by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Good questions.

I don’t know the answers either. I remember early in the primaries many articles on Mass going bankrupt due to Romneycare.

The panel question is a good one. And is Obama’s claim that the panel is prohibited by law from dictating care true?


20 posted on 10/04/2012 8:07:02 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Democrat_media

Guess you didn’t read my post or understand it. It’s not all about whether Romneycare was constitutional and Obamacare not. It’s not about whether Mitt will go through with scuttling it. It’s about whether it was a good idea in itself, which it wasn’t, and about whether it indirectly helped Obama nationalize healthcare, which it did.


21 posted on 10/04/2012 8:07:34 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: SeekAndFind
Santorum said that both Obamacare and Romneycare had death panels.
22 posted on 10/04/2012 8:09:06 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Democrat_media

Statist socialism is statist socialism, whether done on a national scale, or piecemeal, state by state.

And while he occasionally pays lip service to federalism, he defends practically every unconstitutional, anti-tenth amendment federal program, including and especially the centerpieces of the New Deal and the Great Society. He is a reliable defender of big government social tinkering across a wide variety of areas not covered by the Enumerated Powers.

He doesn’t oppose big government or socialism. He simply thinks he can do it better than Obama. Which is probably true.

Congratulations on your big “win.”


23 posted on 10/04/2012 8:09:19 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (If your only choice is evil, you've either died and gone to hell, or you're a Republican.)
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To: Tublecane

All you do is repeat democrat and MSM spin.

your agenda is obvious.

that POS communist Obama , Amnesty giving dictatorial POS got crushed last night. LOL


24 posted on 10/04/2012 8:09:41 AM PDT by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: Democrat_media

You are about as nimble or subtle as that tack Hannity. Is there anything you can say that’s not a talking point you’ve already posted seven times?


25 posted on 10/04/2012 8:10:01 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Democrat_media

New tagline ...


26 posted on 10/04/2012 8:11:21 AM PDT by EternalVigilance (Congratulations on your big 'win.' Obviously, Romney is a much more capable socialist than Obama.)
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To: EternalVigilance

wtf, did you LISTEN or UNDERSTAND what Romney said in the debate?

Romney said it’s not for the federal government to limit our freedom and choices in healthcare.

Everything Romney said was for limiting the federal government. Romney said he will repeal Obamacare, repeal dod frank, reduce regulations , even privatize medicare. you all probably didn’t understand any of that. Not even Reagan proposed privatizing medicare. oh yeah even that is not Conservative to you all. Romney said he thinks the free market works better than government and will allow the private sector to compete with medicare so that will be the destruction of medicare. but you call that a socialist when it is the opposite . that’s called freedom , limiting the FEDERAL government as the constitution intended. if the people(nuts) in Massachusetts want some socialist program let them , that is the lab.

This is what he said not without your filter, without the MSM filter.


27 posted on 10/04/2012 8:11:49 AM PDT by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: Democrat_media

“your agenda is obvious”

I should have expected this level of thought. You are obviously in myopic campaign mode.


28 posted on 10/04/2012 8:12:49 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane

Talking points? LOL.This is just what I saw last nite.

Romney destroyed your POS marxist, communist ,POS Obama

go vote for Obama you fool no one


29 posted on 10/04/2012 8:15:22 AM PDT by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: SeekAndFind
The NY slimes and politico both say Romneycare didn't reign in costs. Googling shows several articles saying Romneycare didn't reign in costs. (but do you trust google?)

Did Romneycare Control Health Care Costs?

After Six Years of RomneyCare, Mass. Imposes Healthcare Price Controls

30 posted on 10/04/2012 8:16:22 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Democrat_media

Why would I want to let the people in Mass. experiment with socialism? Not that I’d send the army in, or something, but it is bad wherever it’s tried. States may be “laboratories off freedom,” but the fredom to Rene t freedom is not an experiment in freedom. It is the opposite. It’s still an experiment in differentness from other states, but who cares? Wrong is wrong and Romneycare is wrong.

I don’t care if it was constitutional. Good for Rombey tor having some limits. But it’s not enough.


31 posted on 10/04/2012 8:18:37 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: SeekAndFind
This one is from the WSJ.

RomneyCare 2.0 With costs rising fast, Massachusetts moves to dictate medical care.

32 posted on 10/04/2012 8:21:06 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Democrat_media

If you basically cut and paste a sentence or paragraph no matter whom you’re posting to and what they’re specifically arguing, yeah, those are talking points.

By the way, it’s not just what he said last night. He’s been saying it since before the primaries, since Romneycare for obvious reasons hounds him.


33 posted on 10/04/2012 8:21:43 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane
Romney said he will repeal Obamacare because that is not the province of the federal government , also wants to privatize medicare , to let the private sector compete with medicare, reduce regulations, repeal Dod frank, etc. So you must be against all that right? Yes because you are against Romney. well then you are the socialist as your Obama is. But you say this is the same as Obama but it is the opposite of Obama.
34 posted on 10/04/2012 8:22:19 AM PDT by Democrat_media (China is destroying all our jobs and manufacturing ability. China makes everything.)
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To: GeronL

“Obamacare and Romneycare are not identical. They are very different. Romney worked to promote flexibility;... “

Do you have an issue with the Government supplying ANY healthcare services to anyone ?

Or do you have an issue with a specific provision ?


35 posted on 10/04/2012 8:36:11 AM PDT by mike_9958
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To: mike_9958
Government supplying ANY healthcare services

Not their job

36 posted on 10/04/2012 8:40:55 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Democrat_media; EternalVigilance

_media, you are not going to get Romney “haters” to change - IMO they want Obama to be re-elected so they have someone to complain about, and can appear “even more conservative” than the rest of us by complaining about the GOP.

I suppose it makes them feel superior.

The object is kick Obama out of office.... remember.


37 posted on 10/04/2012 8:42:54 AM PDT by mike_9958
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To: GeronL

so your not good with Medicare or Medicaid ?

my granny will be pissed.


38 posted on 10/04/2012 12:09:24 PM PDT by mike_9958
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To: GeronL
.


GeronL ... you're just a "hater" ... and a religious bigot on top of that too ...

"shame on you" ...


/sarcasm-off ...



.
39 posted on 10/04/2012 1:49:38 PM PDT by Patton@Bastogne (Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin will DEFEAT the Obama-Romney Socialist Gay-Marriage Axis of Evil)
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To: Patton@Bastogne

lolz


40 posted on 10/04/2012 1:52:56 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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