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Those cement bubbles on sidewalk corners are costing you a lot of money! (858 Million)
Philadelphia Daily News ^ | 10/08/2012 | Stu Bykofsky

Posted on 10/08/2012 10:41:15 AM PDT by Kid Shelleen

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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Just to clarify, my cost is for the same work out here in eastern Washington State, and the tactile inserts cost about $400 per ramp. To upgrade to ADA standard you need to replace the entire concrete panel middle panel of the ramp. There are actually three parts to the ramp, the wings (on on either side) and the ramp which is also called the landing.

You have to figure in removal of existing sidewalk, traffic control, new concrete, tactile panels, mobilization (bonding costs and permits) and re prepping the base rock under the slab. Typical city ramp should cost no more than $1500 each, and the more you have and the proximity to each other the cheaper it will be.

Other cost to consider would be if the sidewalk and curb/gutter were poured together (monolithic) which may require pouring the curb and gutter first, then pouring the sidewalk later. It there is a catch basin in the gutter pan than that has to be figured in as well.

But if this is in Philly than the cement finshers union is propably tacking on their sprecial fees...


51 posted on 10/08/2012 2:05:31 PM PDT by shotgun
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To: GladesGuru

My dad was wheel chair bound his last 7 years and hated everything the gubmint planners said was needed to provide him access. He said not one of them was probably ever in a wheel chair.


52 posted on 10/08/2012 2:07:45 PM PDT by shotgun
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To: Colorado Doug
It cost's quite a bit more than that to install those. The entire corner of the sidewalk at the intersection has to be demolished and a new one installed. You couldn't even get the old concrete jackhammered out for that.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Philadelphia has already done the curb cuts and installed the ramps. I recall Philly having a big issue with the ADA over this about 10-12 years ago.

53 posted on 10/08/2012 2:14:06 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
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To: Colorado Doug
It cost's quite a bit more than that to install those. The entire corner of the sidewalk at the intersection has to be demolished and a new one installed. You couldn't even get the old concrete jackhammered out for that.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Philadelphia has already done the curb cuts and installed the ramps. I recall Philly having a big issue with the ADA over this about 10-12 years ago.

54 posted on 10/08/2012 2:14:06 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
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To: lacrew

You are correct about the American with Disabilities Act of 1990 being the original source of this issue. Spawned by the Democrat Congress but signed by GHW Bush in 1990.

Every ramped walk to an intersection built in the last 22 years should have had the feature built in when built.

However, so many machine run cities have failed to do so and now Obama is mandating compliance programs. You are right on the cost as well — a single ramp can have these added for less than a grand in most cases. A whole intersection with 8 ramps (two on each corner) it might get down to 500 bucks a ramp. Now keep in mind that when you are building a block of sidewalks, you need this for any curb to be cut by a ramp but you have a much larger area of cost to apportion it against.

It is actually one of the cheaper ADA construction adds to public and private work mandated by the Federal law for the last 22 years. Look at some of the ramps, added handicap parking spaces, handicap signs, long winding wheel chair ramps and other improvements and more cost is in these.

This article is simply a run down city is now finally trying to show what the cost would be to avoid doing what they should have had already half accomplished if they had started 22 years ago.


55 posted on 10/08/2012 2:29:31 PM PDT by KC Burke (Plain Conservative opinions and common sense correction for thirteen years.)
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To: Sacajaweau

“Broom the walks...period”

That makes way too much sense.

My grand parents walk ways are broomed and that works just fine.


56 posted on 10/08/2012 2:31:28 PM PDT by Holly_P
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To: shotgun

These aren’t really for the improvement of wheel chair access. They allow the blind and near blind to navigate sidewalks and determine when they are approaching a street.

Likewise, if the audible features to walk signals saying, “walk...walk...walk” are used, blind people can somewhat get around an area they are familiar with to walk for access near work or home even in urban areas.


57 posted on 10/08/2012 2:32:54 PM PDT by KC Burke (Plain Conservative opinions and common sense correction for thirteen years.)
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To: shotgun

“My dad was wheel chair bound his last 7 years and hated everything the gubmint planners said was needed to provide him access. He said not one of them was probably ever in a wheel chair.”

Based upon the experientally validated insight of your father, the solution is clear - break the legs of every gubment planner.

It might not help, but it couldn’t hurt. And, it would be so much fun!

Apologies to Sam Clements.


58 posted on 10/08/2012 6:33:11 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: shotgun

I can agree with him on that, I was in a wheelchair for 3 years. Things look a lot different when you’re looking everybody square in the butt.

My dad is in the city planning department. I tried to get him to convince his bosses that the person checking to make sure buildings were accessable should have to live in a chair for a year first.


59 posted on 10/08/2012 6:48:52 PM PDT by Ellendra (http://www.ustrendy.com/ellendra-nauriel/portfolio/18423/concealed-couture/)
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To: Red Badger

Most cities get a lot of funding from the feds, and every dollar of that funding comes with strings attached. If a city wants to defy a federal “suggestion”, it first must untangle itself from them financially. There was a supreme court decision a few years ago that said that if a state/county/city/municipality/whatever does not recieve federal funding, then they are not required to enforce federal codes, and can in fact tell the feds to butt out in cases where the codes differ.
(If I’m remembering that right, it’s been a few years.)


60 posted on 10/08/2012 6:54:03 PM PDT by Ellendra (http://www.ustrendy.com/ellendra-nauriel/portfolio/18423/concealed-couture/)
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To: GladesGuru
The ‘unseen hand of the market’ disagrees with you, it would appear.

The unseen hand is full of it, and my experience proves it. The unit I installed was a single piece stool with a 3.5 inch flapper valve and it performs flawlessly. Maybe you should get yourself some real life experience and then you can comment intelligently on whether they work or not.

61 posted on 10/09/2012 12:31:21 PM PDT by itsahoot (I'll write in Palin in 2012. That is 1 vote for Palin, 0 votes for Romney and Zer0 votes for Obama.)
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To: okie01
Typically, they still jackhammer out the old ramps and pour new ones with the composite truncated domes or the pour a new one with a void in which to place the truncated dome pavers over a sand base. It's an insane waste of money.
62 posted on 10/09/2012 4:13:15 PM PDT by Colorado Doug (Now I know how the Indians felt to be sold out for a few beads and trinkets)
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To: Colorado Doug
It's an insane waste of money.

There is no doubt of that. And, now, they will have done it twice.

The cost-benefit-value equation is foreign to government agencies.

63 posted on 10/09/2012 6:54:38 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
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To: itsahoot

“The ‘unseen hand of the market’ disagrees with you, it would appear.”

“The unseen hand is full of it, and my experience proves it.”

If the ‘unseen hand’ is actually full of it, then that particular hand is likely attached to a Muslim

“The unit I installed was a single piece stool with a 3.5 inch flapper valve and it performs flawlessly.”

Nice to know that, but the market for the old style units exists and said existence says much about public experience with the “Low Volume Units”.

“Maybe you should get yourself some real life experience and then you can comment intelligently on whether they work or not.”

My, my - I didn’t mean to hit a nerve. However, do note that you are unaware of what properties I have owned, or what can be done to plumbing by either the public (business toilets) or residential Tenants-From-Hell acting out their inadequacies of the toilet..


64 posted on 10/09/2012 7:46:00 PM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is necessary to examine principles."...the public interest)
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To: GladesGuru
I have owned, or what can be done to plumbing by either the public (business toilets) or residential Tenants-From-Hell acting out their inadequacies of the toilet..

No toilet will flush properly when you have put diapers or shoes or weapons in them.

Contractors and rental property owners have little incentive to use new technology usually, but not always because of cost in adopting a new standard.

The stools I installed were standard old fart design, they were less than $150.00 and I was amazed at the performance. You are never too old to learn something new. Flushes are almost instant.

I remember when Stainless Steal razor blades were first introduced. Old timers were still whetting their Gillette double edge blades, in the handy box you could buy for a quarter. Hard to find those today and they were much cheaper.

65 posted on 10/10/2012 9:27:46 AM PDT by itsahoot (I'll write in Palin in 2012. That is 1 vote for Palin, 0 votes for Romney and Zer0 votes for Obama.)
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To: shotgun
These are mandated by the American with Disabilities Act and there is no way around it.

Sure there's a way around it.

Two ways, in fact.

1) Municipalities can tell Fedzilla to pound sand.

2) Congress can repeal the bloody ADA.

It's a mere act of Congress, not a law of nature.

66 posted on 10/10/2012 9:32:01 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: itsahoot
Truth is new toilet design has improved the process such that no matter how much water you used in the older toilets, you won't get as reliable a result as you will with the newer toilets.

That's true.

It's also completely irrelevant, and repugnant to a Constitutional Republic.

NOWHERE is the federal government, NOWHERE is any state government, delegated the authority to dictate toilet design.

That was a pure and simple power-grab; an act of tyranny.

67 posted on 10/10/2012 9:35:03 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Granted your points are valid but:

1)Most, if not all, local public agencies do not want to be the test case in a lawsuit.

and

2) And you have some confidence that Congress have the balls to do this!


68 posted on 10/10/2012 9:46:20 AM PDT by shotgun
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To: shotgun
And you have some confidence that Congress have the balls to do this!

Congress????

Balls????

ROFL!!!!!!

But seriously ... As 'conservatives' or 'constitutionalists', our political goals must include repeal of a whole lot of BS that the leftists have rammed through congress. It's necessary, IMO, to start pounding this concept on congressthings, congressional candidates, and our fellow citizens.

"It's the law" need not be the end of the discussion.

Laws can be repealed, and many of them should be repealed.

REPEAL the ADA.

69 posted on 10/10/2012 9:52:14 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

It’s also completely irrelevant, and repugnant to a Constitutional Republic.

_____________________

As is your statement. All I did was make an observation, toilets would probably have evolved without the mandate, but for what ever reason they are improved.


70 posted on 10/11/2012 10:11:07 PM PDT by itsahoot (I'll write in Palin in 2012. That is 1 vote for Palin, 0 votes for Romney and Zer0 votes for Obama.)
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