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Hundreds evacuated after US levee breaks; people on roofs awaiting rescue
AP via Yahoo News ^ | 10/30/12

Posted on 10/30/2012 4:42:33 AM PDT by Kartographer

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To: cuban leaf
I am noticing that any serious damage done by this storm is limited to a pretty tight area. NYC had some flooding, a bunch of row houses were burned down by the same fire in Queens, and now this levee. Anything else I’m missing?

Yes, you're missing the great majority of the damage. NYC and environs is photogenic and sells copy, but the damage is widespread. And that's the storm surge and initial storm damage.

What's left of Sandy is still in the process of dumping absolute sh*tloads of rain on land; there's going to be widespread damage from streams flooding next plus the usual power outages, fallen trees etc from what's still a strong storm.

Was this, at a national scale, a non-event? Seems like the Colorado fires were a MUCH worse disaster.

There are far more people in the affected area than the Colorado fires, and there's going to be the additional effect of supply shortages and probably rioting too (sometimes I hate humanity). To be perfectly clear- I'm not saying the Colorado fires weren't/aren't a big deal- but the scale of this storm is simply larger.

One of the problems we face is that the media hypes every large storm there is, so after all the false-alarms, well, it's like the Boy Who Cried Wolf. At the moment, it would appear that the Wolf actually showed up this time.

I hope it didn't; I'd rather be wrong about widespread destruction existing than right about it.
101 posted on 10/30/2012 8:29:30 AM PDT by verum ago (Some people must truly be in love, for only love can be so blind.)
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To: cherry

It’s called “disaster porn”. The Media pushes it, the Sheep lap it up, and need a cigarette afterwards...


102 posted on 10/30/2012 8:30:58 AM PDT by Old Sarge (We are officially over the precipice, we just havent struck the ground yet...)
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To: verum ago
Yes, you're missing the great majority of the damage

I think he means extraordinary damage not expected from a Cat 1 hurricane and resultant flooding

103 posted on 10/30/2012 8:31:25 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Kartographer

The Oceans will begin to recede!

104 posted on 10/30/2012 8:31:34 AM PDT by garjog (We do not want another four more years of the last four years.)
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To: cuban leaf
I have to admit Im a bit surprised by your post. Youve been here all this time and havent learned that the lives and personal belongings of those on the coasts are more valuable than yours? Dont deny it, Ive seen your posts. Youre one of those people who believes in responsibility! How DARE you recognize the ignorance of building a house on an ocean shore! Ill bet youre probably one of those bastards who thinks Californians shouldnt build houses hanging off of cliffs in earthquake prone territory too!

The fact that lemmings continue to pile around various urban centers created by accidents of history driving up the price of land makes the land cost more FRNs and by extention makes them more valuable than you.

We must all stop our lives, comiserate in their unpreparedness and dependence, and lobby our representatives for increased taxes to protect them. Until you learn that lesson you are hereby tossed from the Republican party.

ZZZZzzzotttt!!!

-insert childish picture of flying cat here-

(Total non-event. Dont get angry at the ignorant replies you are getting. Feel pity for them, they really are that clueless)

105 posted on 10/30/2012 8:35:26 AM PDT by gnarledmaw (Obama: Evincing a Design since 2009)
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To: GeronL
I think he means extraordinary damage not expected from a Cat 1 hurricane and resultant flooding

I interpreted what he said as a comment not on extraordinary damage but on a perception of serious damage being in a very limited area:

I am noticing that any serious damage done by this storm is limited to a pretty tight area. NYC had some flooding, a bunch of row houses were burned down by the same fire in Queens, and now this levee. Anything else I’m missing?
106 posted on 10/30/2012 8:37:30 AM PDT by verum ago (Some people must truly be in love, for only love can be so blind.)
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To: hummingbird

Yup. Everyone busts my chops for being a prepper, not laughing now are they?


107 posted on 10/30/2012 8:38:37 AM PDT by GlockThe Vote (The Obama Adminstration: 2nd wave of attacks on America after 9/11)
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To: Wallace T.
"Any disaster in non-flyover country (the Northeast and Southern California) is overhyped by the MSM. Hundreds of square miles of Colorado might burn down, but a few dozen homes in Queens will get more coverage. A hurricane can flatten thousands of homes in Florida, and a tornado do similar damage in Missouri, but a few roofs lost in New Jersey will get more coverage. The MSM’s focus on their home regions is as predictable as their liberal bias."

Exactly. Which is why this election is not just ABO, but Pop. The. Bubble.

108 posted on 10/30/2012 8:39:00 AM PDT by StAnDeliver (2008 + IN, NE1, NC, FL, VA, OH, CO, IA, NH = 285EV)
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To: Old Sarge

“Sandy itself was at max a Cat 1 storm.”

So was Agnes. Look it up. You won’t get many storms worse than that. Permanent changes all around.

Cat refers ONLY to “wind speed”. It ain’t all about wind speed.

“The other weather events that ties into it produced the more widespread problems.”

No. I am in central MD, and luckily while what I saw coming looked like an Agnes set-up, we have hardly had much problem here. It’s over, unless PA is getting pounded and it runs down here late. Last year’s Irene/Lee was more problem for us than this. However, the most affected areas seem to be ON THE COAST - i.e., the hurricane had the most effect. The “other” event is apparently just now merging with Sandy and producing some problems way out west. Not sure how devastating they are yet. It’s certainly weird.


109 posted on 10/30/2012 8:40:14 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Strategerist
"Population is population. More people live in Brooklyn than in North and South Dakota and Montana COMBINED. Shockingly, the more people that live somewhere, the more coverage it gets."

That simplistic naval-gazing sophistry wasn't always the way it was. Until the 90s when the nets pulled their bureaus out of places like Chicago and Houston. F the MSM.

110 posted on 10/30/2012 8:41:52 AM PDT by StAnDeliver (2008 + IN, NE1, NC, FL, VA, OH, CO, IA, NH = 285EV)
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To: wideawake
No one around here belittled the devastating Colorado fires

You might want to do a little research before making that dumb of a statement. One of the offenders is in Sandy now.

111 posted on 10/30/2012 8:42:28 AM PDT by xone
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To: xone

I repeat, I never heard anyone in my town say that the media coverage of the Colorado fires was overblown. If you have evidence to the contrary, document it.


112 posted on 10/30/2012 8:46:33 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
No one around here belittled the devastating Colorado fires.

No; they saved their scorn for New Orleans.

People still clinging to their narrative don't get, or do not want to get, the city's unique challenges in Katrina, resulting from unique geographic elements, but mostly from the culpable failure of federal flood control structures.

The eastern seabord is having a rough week and I am very sorry for the deaths and lost homes. I hope we'll be done for a while with nasty queries about why "you people" perversely choose to live in a place so manifestly unfit for human habitation, recklessly ignoring the helpful advice of government, etc.

113 posted on 10/30/2012 8:48:05 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: wideawake

‘Around here’ is your town now? Are you posting to MyTownRepublic.com? Posting around here on FR means FR. Plenty of it went on.


114 posted on 10/30/2012 8:52:05 AM PDT by xone
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To: dirtboy

Hope you are being sarcastic. New York City has the most expensive housing in the US.


115 posted on 10/30/2012 8:58:11 AM PDT by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: xone

In my original post, to which your original comment was directed, I was describing what was happening locally. I was not describing FreeRepublic as flooded, as having suffered billions in damages, etc. That should have been quite clear from context.


116 posted on 10/30/2012 8:58:38 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Clemenza

I was.


117 posted on 10/30/2012 8:59:32 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: NVDave
Just 2 weeks ago, Wyoming and South Dakota had 70+mph winds.

Semis, tractor trailers & all other sort of vehicles tipped over in those winds.

I'm not trying to diminish what-so-ever what is happening on the east coast with Sandy, but you are correct, high winds are "normal" out here and seldom reported anywhere other than locally.

118 posted on 10/30/2012 9:02:48 AM PDT by coder2
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To: GeronL
I checked a webcam last night and Times Square still had power,

So did most of Manhattan. That's unusual for such an over-hyped storm.

119 posted on 10/30/2012 9:19:22 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Kartographer
Maybe because like so many of the ‘experts’ on FR they decided that the storm was fake?

We're good here on FR, but we haven't got the entire internet captured to this site (yet), so of course a lot of folks were uninformed.

No, the National Hurricane Center did not do their jobs this week. I have three reasons why:

1. Extremely slow to embrace the better storm models. Their model of usual choice is the GFS weather model. There are known problems with it that came heavily into play here, and thus its output should have been discounted heavily last week.

2. Continued to report this storm as a Category 1 hurricane. Failed to highlight the significance of the storm size. Failed to highlight the storm surge issues with storm size + angle of approach. Failed to mention the significance of the extremely low pressure readings.

3. Whiffed completely on the acceleration of Sandy to the coast... which reduced "little time to prepare" to "no time to prepare". Especially considering that people tend to ignore news on a weekend.

Loss of life cannot be avoided here, but I would put a lot of these deaths on the NHC for doing a terrible job on Sandy. They MUST recognize the model problems and they MUST develop a different hurricane scaling system for reporting the danger that each storm poses.

Example: Andrew was a high 4/low Cat 5 storm - yet it impacted a VERY narrow area in south Florida... you could almost call it a huge tornado by comparison to Sandy. I was 200 miles up the coast and hardly had more than a stiff breeze out of it. On that scale, Sandy was a moderate Cat 1, but obviously was a lot worse overall.

I submit that a better measure of storm potential (and Joe Bastardi uses such a scale for his own forecasts, btw) would better alert the public... which is ultimately the NHC's job. [/rant]

120 posted on 10/30/2012 9:19:38 AM PDT by alancarp (Democrats can't win on merits, so it's okay to cheat, steal, lie, break the law to "win" elections.)
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To: MD Expat in PA; GeronL; Strategerist; GlockThe Vote
It made me very angry to see some people here saying that a major disaster in the NE would be no big deal because all those people are just “liberals”, they live in “Blue States” and so they deserve it.

I have not seen that but I think those of us who have survived truly destructive hurricanes watch with some amusement as the NY-DC media describe a mild hurricane/tropical late season storm as Stormzilla and the Apocalypse when it's really not about this being much of a storm but rather where it is hitting...which is admittedly a factor.

And yes indeed I do think that liberals are much much more likely to feel it's all about them and to whine at the slightest inconvenience...versus the stoicism of conservatives...that is part of what separates us from them.

Then there is the media that hypes this up to sell ad space....FOX being truly obnoxious.

This is a large mass but mild late season tropical storm which will cause flooding and worst of all power outtages and some infrastructural damage and very little loss of life

Major destructive storms are very rare above Hatteras...I can only think of (2) Cat 4 or better past 90-100 years...1938 and Hazel

and thank God for that...the population concentrations are an issue as is nowadays the demographic issues and lawlessness.

fortunately aside from a few barrier island low spots, shore relief up north is fairly sharp..which helps

folks are going to be without power for days..maybe a week or more and flooding is yet to determine...surge beat Irene but I think rain will not...which is good.

I do not think folks deserve calamity because they have wrong political views but I do think those folks tend to be less prepared, more afraid in general and dependent on others...not exactly the stock that made us great over the centuries

My daughter is in Park Slope...cell phone working...power on and off..off now i think...they are just holed up with the dogs

She lived through Andrew very close to landfall in South Miami/Old Cutler Road...she knows what a destructive storm is all about as does her daddy who lived through Camille in 1969 as a 12 year old and I am a former Manhattan residence from the 80s

Media hype aside I hope folks get their power back soon, flooding in manageable, snow in Appalachia is not damaging and fewer trees fall on folks regardless of how they vote or think about God etc..

121 posted on 10/30/2012 9:20:31 AM PDT by wardaddy (my wife prays in the tanning bed....guess what region i live in...ya'll?)
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To: Moonman62

All those in NYC without power should go to Times Square, it’ll be like a New Years Rocking Eve come early. Nanny Bloomberg can bring the unsalted food and birth control.


122 posted on 10/30/2012 9:21:11 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: wardaddy

In hindsight it shouldn’t surprise us that New Welfare City seems to have been wholly unprepared for this. You would think a major on the coast would have long been preparing.


123 posted on 10/30/2012 9:23:30 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL

Follow the light.

Too bad Bloomberg has been more concerned about liquid in fast food cups rather than the water that flooded lower Manhattan.

124 posted on 10/30/2012 9:24:41 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: wideawake

Thanks


125 posted on 10/30/2012 9:36:29 AM PDT by xone
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To: wardaddy
Media hype aside I hope folks get their power back soon, flooding in manageable, snow in Appalachia is not damaging and fewer trees fall on folks regardless of how they vote or think about God etc..

As someone who's been through major hurricanes, this storm was over-hyped. That's not to say it didn't cause damage, but the weather's been causing damage throughout the history of civilization. It's too bad these things have become huge national political events. There are more pressing issues.

126 posted on 10/30/2012 9:40:06 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Jeff Head

Good post.

I’d also like to see a show of hands among East Coasters and New Yorkers who are pro-Obama but also would like to get the benefits right now, of coal-fired plant generated electricity.


127 posted on 10/30/2012 9:49:53 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: arasina

The storm did result in a death in Toronto yesterday so they were probably not including that death.


128 posted on 10/30/2012 10:04:39 AM PDT by NYorkerInHouston
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To: alancarp

I am really starting to get angry at alot of these FReepers - everywhere from simply dismissive to flippant and derisive, and cruel.

I saw some really obnoxious posts pre-storm from a few particular people who keep heaping it on. But now I’m also seeing add-ons from people simply dismissing anything that’s happened.

I’m tired of people crying about how “we’re ignored” (total BS - we heard about Katrina for a week before it hit; and we know about the super events in the midwest), and even more childishly bratty:

“our storm is better than your storm!”

OOOOOooooo, is this making me mad!

I’m finding it hard to now be rational and put down my genuine observations as someone who actually was concerned for once about a TS/hur heading this way.


129 posted on 10/30/2012 10:07:30 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: djf
No government or people, short of being humble and simply doing the best they can, can be prepared for an Act of God.

The very phrase should give everyone a clue.

Whether Katrina, or Sandy, or a major Tsunami in Indonesia that kills 250,000 in a day...you simply can only do your best, wait it out, and then work with the survivors to rebuild and help as best you can.

If folks will do that, and leave the politics out of it while the disaster is approaching, occurring, and as we clean up after...there will be plenty of time to analyze what went wrong afterwards. Then, if there is a major problem, you point it out and fix it.

My original point was simply to indicate out how the MSM handled Katrina, blaming Bush for every conceivable thing, when no one could have been fully prepared for that type of event. Just like this one.

THE LESSONS OF KATRINA

substitute Sandy in for each reference of "KAtrina" and you are good to go.

130 posted on 10/30/2012 10:22:12 AM PDT by Jeff Head ( Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Kartographer; madameguinot
Kart, there are other options outside of the two you cited.

Madame, I thank you.

See my post 130 on this thread.

131 posted on 10/30/2012 10:25:43 AM PDT by Jeff Head ( Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Doogle

How did Newark and the Port Elizabeth area fare during the storm?


132 posted on 10/30/2012 10:25:45 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: reformedliberal
I'm watching on Weather Channel.

Besides geography lesson, I can see how devastating it looks.

I can't imagine dealing with the snow. I'm southeast Texas so snow is very rare and melts within the same day it snows - everyone runs outside like "what is that white stuff?"

They say 2 feet in some areas. D-A-N-G!

133 posted on 10/30/2012 10:28:39 AM PDT by hummingbird (Obama campaigns right in our faces. Doesn't bother him at all, does it?)
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To: LibertyRocks

I agree with you Liberty and I thank you for your support...i have been absolutely disgusted by the things I have read on here from Fellow Freepers...Nasty, ignorant and hateful comments...they would give the people from DU a run for their money...

This is not about the category of the hurricane...whether it was a 1 or a 5 or a Tropical Storm...I wish nobody ill will or feel like they deserved what they got...nor minimize anyone’s situation as ‘it’s just some wind and water’...

The people referenced in this article are the people I grew up with...i grew up in Wood-Ridge NJ which shares a High School with Moonachie. I played sports on the very fields that are underwater and still know people in the area...my friends have lost houses, are trying to get in touch with relatives, and are worried about what they will find when they go back home...

The people making hateful and stupid comments dont get it....it’s not that NY thinks they are better than anyone else, it is that it does not take a Cat 3 or 4 to mess things up...we have 3 major airports shut down affecting the entire country.. LaGuardia will be closed for quite some time....the entire US Financial system is on hold...every business in this country that is listed on the NYSE, AMEX or Nasdaq does not know what its value is today...lower Manahattan is under water, the tunnels were under water...it affected 40 million people....The Jersey shore is wrecked...Boardwalk in AC is severely damaged...The piers in Seaside are destroyed...Casino Pier is gone, Jenks is damaged...home upon home on the barrier islands are damaged...

Many Freepers seem to forget that there are other Freepers living through this and that while our states may not always vote Red, if you want to be purely political, NJ, NY, and PA send a good number of Republicans to Congress that contribute to our overall majority...Governor Christie has been outstanding, but apparently praising President Obama makes him a traitor...what is he supposed to say? Obama is a jerk? Maybe Obama has been helpful...i want him voted out next Tuesday, but to dedicate whole threads to this topic is stupid...Governor Cuomo has been outstanding as well, and while I do not agree with him politically, he has provided solid leadership, as has Mayor Bloomberg....the libs are supposed to be mean and hateful, I thought Freepers were beter than many of the things I’ m reading...


134 posted on 10/30/2012 10:29:29 AM PDT by usafa92 (Conservative in Jersey)
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To: the OlLine Rebel; Jeff Head; Travis McGee; wideawake; NVDave; GeronL

Perhaps the damage to our liberty, no thanks to the decades of our liberty being dismissed, being derided, and our love for our country being flippantly rejected by cruel words uttered incessantly by liberals of New York City in particular, is greater than you estimate.

Adding to losses due to natural disasters, are those heavy losses of what we hold dear: our freedom and pursuits of life, liberty, property, and happiness, and for the duration of the Obama administration, *opportunity* -— you know, the things that liberals keep “working” at taking away from *you.*

You’re asking a lot, of people who would mount up 10 trucks loaded with fuel, electrical generators, food, blankets, chain saws, and some sidearms for personal protection ... then off to NYC and environs, to do what they can to help ... to only find, *cruelly,* that upon their reporting in to a Manhattan fire station, they are all arrested for carrying their .38 revolvers for which they all have concealed carry permits.

Please do not underestimate the weight upon our shoulders, merely by examination of the power of this or that storm system; there is much more involved here, for people who mostly only see trucks from the liberal media, which are breathlessly awaiting a chance to film a disaster west of the Hudson, and the only help from one of such production trucks, is the conservative soul who can while the “talking head” is looking the other way.


135 posted on 10/30/2012 10:31:05 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: Doogle
I copy and paste the coordinates to Google?

I'm just slow on this.

TIA!!

136 posted on 10/30/2012 10:32:33 AM PDT by hummingbird (Obama campaigns right in our faces. Doesn't bother him at all, does it?)
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To: Jeff Head

Yes I know, but deniers seem to prevade FR


137 posted on 10/30/2012 10:34:50 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: PGR88

badly...the full extent is concentrating on NYC...but I just got back from an expedition...*smiles*....all traffic lights are out..(western Morris cty)...gas stations that are open have lines that go hundreds of feet....a lot of people ran out of gas for their generators....pretty messed up....few stores are open...burger king...drive up only....tractor supply..and one seven eleven...malls are dark


138 posted on 10/30/2012 10:39:10 AM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: PGR88

...also heard Cristy say those small rail cars you see along the turnpike by the refineries were washed up and close lanes last night on the pike...surge just washed them up there..


139 posted on 10/30/2012 10:42:31 AM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Doogle

Thanks! Was/is there heavy flooding there (Port Newark/Elizabeth) or more wind damage / lost electricity?

Have a good friend with a business just outside the port area, across the tracks North of Newark Airport - I’m sure he is super busy, so haven’t wanted to bother him with a call just yet....


140 posted on 10/30/2012 10:44:47 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: hummingbird

eyep...just copy this 40.848424,-74.051507 and paste it in Google search ...

copy (highlight) so it turns blue...right click select copy when box opens.....now take cursor and place it in search box...right click, hit paste....then click search


141 posted on 10/30/2012 10:49:29 AM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: First_Salute
Great point!

See my post 130 on this thread.

142 posted on 10/30/2012 10:50:01 AM PDT by Jeff Head ( Freedom is not free, never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: First_Salute

I have no idea what you’re talking about or what it really has to do with the storm.

Your apparent rationalizing doesn’t erase the fact that a few people here have been relentlessly dismissive and mocking in their posts. That doesn’t fare well with God, regardless.

Did you all speak this way on 9/11?

I sure as hell didn’t. No matter how full of liberals NYC is.


143 posted on 10/30/2012 10:50:44 AM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: PGR88

call him...not many people out unless he’s open....lots of power out all over..


144 posted on 10/30/2012 10:51:23 AM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Kartographer

OBAMA LET THIS HAPPEN BECAUSE HE HATES WHITE PEOPLE!


145 posted on 10/30/2012 10:53:01 AM PDT by Mr. K ("The only thing the World would hate more than the USA in charge is the USA NOT in charge")
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To: PGR88

...if there area normally floods after heavy rain....it’s under water now...


146 posted on 10/30/2012 10:54:50 AM PDT by Doogle ((USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: bmwcyle
And Obama does nothing.

Whaddya talkin' about? He got to order that cool putting green off of the SkyMall catalog on Air Force One (with his platinum government credit card, natch)! If they didn't make him fly back to DC, he might have missed out on it!


147 posted on 10/30/2012 11:03:20 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (I'm not voting for Obama, so therefore I must be helping Romney!)
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To: cherry
The concept of snow is so far removed to southeast Texas - we don't know about snow plows or chains on the tires, etc.

But, ask about our humidity! It is so bad that you can shower, dry, go outside and get instantly hit with the heat/humidity and sweat profusely. ("It's not the heat, it's the humidity".

I have been running the A/C continuously since last week. I will probably be wearing t-shirts/shorts (maybe a sweater) until after Christmas or at most on New Year's celebrations.

I've heard of Jersey Shores - Weather Channel showing flooding - ruined first floors. What a mess.

148 posted on 10/30/2012 11:06:18 AM PDT by hummingbird (Obama campaigns right in our faces. Doesn't bother him at all, does it?)
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To: Venturer

If you are still LOLing, tell me about the “big duck hunting incident”!


149 posted on 10/30/2012 11:09:54 AM PDT by hummingbird (Obama campaigns right in our faces. Doesn't bother him at all, does it?)
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To: Kartographer

Trying to take a balanced approach. Of course, there’s skeptics here. Being a political site, and not a site for weather experts, and strongly skeptical of Obama’s “don’t let a crisis go to waste” regime, it is to be expected. On the one hand, I sympathize with those in the path of Sandy, on the other, I sympathize with these skeptic FReepers, even if some of them get a bit insensitive.

To blame these FReepers, I think is ti blame the wrong people, blame the “don’t let a crisis go to wasters.” This Marxist regime is the root cause of all this hate and discontent. I didn’t think any politico could top Bill Clinton’s lies, this regime is worse.


150 posted on 10/30/2012 11:31:49 AM PDT by sasportas
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