No Time to Give Up in the Fiscal Fight

If I keep reading the advice of those who are saying we should give Barack Obama what he wants, let him take the American economy into the quicksand and make him own it, I am going to be tempted to agree.

With respect to those who offer that strategy, it is flawed on multiple levels. It may not work, it would confuse people about what conservatism is and what it does, and it would slam the brakes on our most valuable passion right now-- the desire to save what we can of America during this perilous second Obama term.

The Obama win and the GOP Senate failures were like a tranquilizer dart to the neck, draining the will of millions of conservatives, and plenty of Republicans in Congress.

But we are starting to slowly awaken, and if we play our cards right, we can stand on core values and still look at ourselves in the mirror, win or lose.

I understand the appeal of an argument that says, “Okay, Mr. President. You won. You want this ship? Steer it into the rocks and we’ll be there to fix it afterward. Maybe then people will hear what we have to say.”

Except maybe they will, maybe they won’t. The notion of the public flocking to Republicans for rescue is a hard sell. Didn’t we kind of think they would do it this year?

Americans generally believe spending is out of control. We did not like the stimulus. We still don’t like Obamacare. November 6 was the perfect opportunity to turn to Republicans for relief from all three headaches.

So now we think we’ll enjoy a popularity burst for throwing up our hands when the going gets tough?

And here’s the tricky thing: what if we let the Obama agenda roll and the expected disasters do not exactly happen?

Make no mistake, I know this second term is the worst news our economy could get. We should not be surprised to see America swirl even more deeply into the fiscal toilet.

But what if our system displays its occasional pesky resilience, and unemployment stays right where it is, or maybe only a tick or two worse? What if the stock market goes up another 3000 points by the 2014 elections? Markets rebounded strongly in 2009 and 2010 even as the fangs of Obama’s policies sank in.

Welcome to the worst conservative nightmare-- an American economy spunky enough to strain against the shackles of Obama, managing a glimmer of health just barely sufficient to fend off the stain of failure we would need for this grand experiment in surrender to succeed.

So as attractive as it sounds to abandon the post-election battlefield so that Obama can “own” the result, the risks are unacceptable.

Think of the candidates who will try to return the Senate to Republican hands, already mapping strategies for campaigns that will begin next year. Do we want to surround them with the torpor of ambivalence, or inspire them with a spirit determined to stave off the sour fate the 2012 results might otherwise deliver?

Unfair argument-settler: which one sounds like the path Ronald Reagan would choose?

So if we dispense with the capitulation talk, what remains is the debate over how to fight.

Republicans are dividing into characteristic corners of boldness and pragmatism. There are voices calling for choosing some battles now, saving others for later. This could prevent fiscal cliff-diving a month from now, but more perilous cliffs may await-- the ones that could spell our fiscal doom even if the Obama agenda bats .500.

So is it time to draw a line in the sand, asking America to join us in a quest for what we need most-- spending cuts? It is, and I pray there are enough stiff spines in Congress to make that stand.

We should not sign on to any plan that involves making job creators pay higher tax rates. If we are to entertain any closing of loopholes or striking of deductions (which are also tax increases), it should be upon receipt of iron-clad commitments from Democrats for real entitlement reform and other meaningful spending cuts.

That would seem highly unlikely. Still high on the adrenaline buzz of an election that seemed to smile on their big-government aspirations, Democrats are not in the mood to make deals.

I know the media will paint any dark result as the fault of Republicans. Let them. It is time to stop worrying what the media say or how young and non-white voters might recoil at first.

We must do the right thing and let the chips fall where they may. Only then can we go to those voters we so deeply want to attract and say that we did it for them. They may not have appreciated it, but when we refused to let spending get even more obscene, we said no, and we did it for all Americans.

When we say no to further milking of top earners, we do it not to protect the Bentleys in their garages, but to protect the jobs they create with the money we let them keep.

Republicans lost in 2012 because we did a poor job of teaching voters why we are right. We are up against growing generations of people who are not learning life lessons from intact families instilling virtues of work and self-reliance. They are learning from government schools, liberal colleges and a twisted popular culture.

We will not deserve their attention if we have to explain how we gave up the fight in 2012 because the fight got hard. We will not deserve their respect if we fold our arms in a petulant tantrum and dare the Democrats to ruin the country so we can score an I told you so.

With Democrat heels dug in, the only common ground will be found when Republicans cave on core principles.

So let’s refuse to do that. This is not the last so-called fiscal cliff we will face. The second Obama term will feature deadline after deadline and crisis after crisis, all accompanied by Democrats and the media condemning us for our our refusal to give in to ideas that will only worsen the economy.

The first step toward earning public trust is to lead by example, even when the march is hard. It does not get much harder than right now. But wherever events lead, I want a Republican party that faces voters in 2014 toughened by fighting the good fight, proud of the stands we took, unwilling to buckle for political expediency but always ready to work with anyone who wants to work with us.

I would answer:

I do believe the house, independent of any other branch of government, has the ability to SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT.

As I see it, that is the only course that remains. The cost would be great in the sense of who might take over in the next election, but that seems to be the goal of everyone on the left anyway. Shock and Awe is the only course remaining where someone is actually in control of spending before the real fiscal cliff is reached, total collapse.

That would mean some serious financial negotiation on a daily basis, on what goes out of the treasury, and they could then perhaps make the case that we are broke!

The so called budget that does not exist would also become apparent and whose fault that was.

Everyone in the country would be impacted, including the President and that is hugely important, and if they were doing it right, there would be an immediate fifty percent CUT in every expenditure.

That particular cut would equal a balanced budget with money left over. The house would have to make sure the public was aware of their past bungling of their duties, and that they regretted having to take control of spending, but in the name of the flag of the United States of America, the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, it had to be done.

Get on with it, the sooner the better.

I am not wise enough or clairvoyant enough to know the financial risk relative to a depression, but think short term depression would be far better than long term collapse.

I do not like the alternative of giving in, giving up, or giving the President everything he wants at the expense of the American people and those in our past who have bought this Republic with their life’s blood.

Rush is right... let obama drive over the cliff. obama is not going to cave on taxes so give him ALL of clinton's tax rates and when they blame republicans simply say that clinton passed it and most of them signed it and most of them were against renewing them 4 years ago etc etc etc. Also remind them if they went back to clinton spending levels the deficits would disappear... Isn't that what THEY always claimed happened? This is obama's ship and he is Captain... so let him fail... we are going over that cliff now or later... I say now. Buckle up Mark... we are going over that cliff. You live in a fantasy world... Rush and I live in Realville.

LLS

I am with you. Let’s go back to the Clinton tax levels...old rates, more people on the lower end paying taxes, cut all the child tax credits that took people off the tax rolls. Use this opportunity to clean up all the credits and targeted stuff of the past decade.

Then get our entire party to start countering the lies about the Bush tax cuts being for the rich....remind voters they were the ones that saw real cuts. Then, go back to the drawing with a focus on tax code reform and lowering rates next year without the complexity and credits. Rebuild it to keep more people on the tax rolls. Obama can only raise the highest bracket from 36 to 39 without Congressional approval, so he is going to have to give in on spending in the discussion at some point. Let’s take the ‘Bush tax cuts’ off the table for good by 12/31 and get real. Right now he and Turbo Tax Timmy are operating in an imaginary universe.

I’ve shifted into Barry’s “revenge” mode and am madder than a grizzley with a toothache. I also agree with Rush. The GOP needs to back off and let the son of a Kenyan goatherder OWN this mess. Whatever happens, happens. If Barry Benghazi wants to go over the cliff, HIS FREELOADER ZOMBIES will suffer along the those of us who pay taxes. The communist “media” will insure that the GOP gets the credit for whatever crap happens anyway so they have nothing to lose. I think it’s time for the 60% of class warriors who think that “the rich” should fund their BIG government get a good dose of their own medicine. If Barry Bonzai Benghazi takes us over the cliff, the 60% are going to take a huge hit also.

I am also strong proponent of the “let Obama own the problems” strategy. The Republicans looking to be elected or re-elected in the Senate and the house ought to be articulate enough to be able to concisely explain to their electorate the reasons behind this position. In other words, they need to lead, not follow the electorate’s thinking. Explain the plan properly for the next 2 years, and get re elected.

I am with the over the cliff - get out your personal parachute crowd. This does NOT translate into giving up!! This is not about giving up principles - this is a long term battle plan to uphold those principles in the end! We must bide our time - the communists are VERY good at that. “Lose the battle” to win the war does not mean comptromising on principles. This is a strategy for later when things fail - they will fail!! Obama’s plan is unsustainable. When the EBT cards are declined, they will listen.

So, if you are in the mood, this is a call to battle.

Damn straight! There is one thing more than anything else that the Democrats want that Republicans are perfectly positioned to stop. It's an increase in the debt ceiling. Fifteen months ago when the Republican House voted to increase the debt ceiling by an unprecedented $2.5 trillion, they were promised by this Administration that it would last through March 2013. This same Republican House should put Baraq Obama and Harry Reid on notice that they have four months remaining to get their houses in order because it's going to be tough sailing when the current $2.5 trillion runs out. Might as well let Goldman Sachs know too that there will be no more 'printing of the money' from this point forward.

RE :”If I keep reading the advice of those who are saying we should give Barack Obama what he wants, let him take the American economy into the quicksand and make him own it, I am going to be tempted to agree.
.....
Americans generally believe spending is out of control. We did not like the stimulus. We still don’t like Obamacare. November 6 was the perfect opportunity to turn to Republicans for relief from all three headaches.
(Really, then how come Obama won re-election?? I think maybe its Rs job to convince voters of that, not just do more wishful thinking like before the election....
....
So is it time to draw a line in the sand, asking America to join us in a quest for what we need most— spending cuts? It is, and I pray there are enough stiff spines in Congress to make that stand.
We should not sign on to any plan that involves making job creators pay higher tax rates. If we are to entertain any closing of loopholes or striking of deductions (which are also tax increases), it should be upon receipt of iron-clad commitments from Democrats for real entitlement reform and other meaningful spending cuts. “

On spending cuts, do nothing and you get spending cuts automatically without negotiating with Pelosi, Reid and Obama.

On tax increases, don't pull another Budget control Act sellout depending on Pelosi’s Dem votes in the House to replace Republican votes.
And dont be passing bills there that raise taxes.

Alternatively House Republicans are going to need pass a bill extending some of the tax cuts to disarm the Dems from telling voters that they (Rs) are holding the middle class hostage to the rich, as they successfully did a year ago on FICA and forced Rs to a humiliating unilateral suurender on it.

If Republicans dont disarm Dems of that then the same club will be once again used to beat then senseless (just like a year ago) and then have to cave to very humilating concessions. You can already see Carney using it on camera yesterday at a press conferance. And point out that the increases are automatic so you dont have to raise them.

And create a video commercial of all the Dems who have been lining up calling to go over the cliff to use as a club to beat Dems with next January when the heat really goes up.

Summary : Fight like Dems, meaning fight like winners for a change,.

RE :”It is political suicide for the Republicans to cave. They will not gain ONE vote from liberals or moderates and will lose almost all conservative votes. That is Barry’s plan.”

Obviously, but if they make the same blunders as they did on the debt limit and FICA extension fights then they will once again get in a situation where it is suicide to NOT cave too, as well as to cave.
At that point there are no options and Dems take the whole pot, again.

Here's my point and suggestions
Republicans weakness and what they should do to win (#20)

“..It is political suicide for the Republicans to cave.”

The message has to be changed/ the paradigm. Letting Obama and the democrats own the inevitable middle class tax increases is not CAVING - it is a pro active strategy. Then conservatives have to be thoroughly informed of the strategy in a concise bullet form so they completely understand it. The strategy MUST be to let Obama and the democrats be entirely responsible for what happens.

Leaders can explain this to conservatives - it’s not that hard. This is not about gaining votes from liberals or moderates at this time!! Of course it won’t and no one expects it to. It is about long term planning to be able to place the blame where it belongs when things go south, as they will.

This is a democrat trap and the only way Republicans can avoid it is to know “when to fold ‘em” as a temporary strategy. Then a full court press to inform conservatives as to the long term plan. The long term plan is to rebuild when the EBT cards decline and the entitlement crowd is hungry.

You would only lose half your paycheck under my plan, and I would as a military retiree lose half of mine, but at least we would have a balanced budget and a paycheck and perhaps in the process save the country.

Remember all cuts are shared equally by all segments of the population and government. Fifty percent across the board immediately. Medicare, medicaid, welfare, social security, military, congress, bureaucracies, executive branch, etc etc.

Is the country worth saving. The country yes, half the sponges living here, that is another question entirely.

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