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Yes, Columbine Had Armed Guards—And They Saved Lives
IBD EDITORIALS ^ | December 25, 2012

Posted on 12/25/2012 11:01:02 AM PST by raptor22

School Safety: Critics of the National Rifle Association's call for armed security guards at our schools respond that one famous school did have a sheriff's deputy on scene. But without him, the toll would have been much worse.

After remaining silent on the mass shooting at Sandy Hook, the NRA's Wayne LaPierre held a press conference Friday to condemn another tragedy in a gun-free zone and to advocate the placement of armed security guards at our schools as is done at airports, banks and other public venues.

"It's now time for us to assume responsibility for our schools," he said. "The only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be permanently involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection."

LaPierre called for a national school security plan, including an appropriation from Congress for armed guards in every school. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," he said.

As we have pointed out, the shooter at the theater in Aurora, Colo., had other theaters between his home and his ultimate target that he could have chosen. Yet, the one he picked was the one that publicly proclaimed itself gun-free.

We've also observed that in other school shooting incidents, such as at a high school in Pearl, Miss., the shooter's spree was cut short by the presence of an armed citizen able to shoot back.

Yes, the critics respond, and there was an armed security guard at Columbine High School in 1999. Yet, 12 students and a teacher were killed by two armed intruders, as if that disqualified the solution of placing armed guards, possibly unemployed army veterans, at each of our nation's 100,000-plus schools.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: 2a; 2ndamendment; arth; aurora; banglist; columbine; columbinearmedguards; guncontrol; gundefense; gunfreezones; guns; ibd; ibdfuns; ibdguns; israelgundefense; israelgunpolicy; israelguns; israelsecurity; newtown; nra; rkba; rtkba; sandyhook; sandyhookgundefense; secondamendment
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1 posted on 12/25/2012 11:01:11 AM PST by raptor22
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To: raptor22

In related news...

Israel Rejects NRA’s Guns-In-Schools Claim
http://matzav.com/israel-rejects-nras-guns-in-schools-claim

Israel’s policy on issuing guns is restrictive, and armed guards at its schools are meant to stop terrorists, not crazed or disgruntled gunmen, experts said Monday, rejecting claims by America’s top gun lobby that Israel serves as proof for its philosophy that the U.S. needs more weapons, not fewer.

Far from the image of a heavily armed population where ordinary people have their own arsenals to repel attackers, Israel allows its people to acquire firearms only if they can prove their professions or places of residence put them in danger. The country relies on its security services, not armed citizens, to prevent terror attacks.

Though military service in Israel is compulsory, routine familiarity with weapons does not carry over into civilian life. Israel has far fewer private weapons per capita than the U.S., and while there have been gangster shootouts on the streets from time to time, gun rampages outside the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are unheard of.

The National Rifle Association responded to the Dec. 14 killing of 20 first-graders and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school by resisting calls for tighter gun control and calling for armed guards and police at schools. On Sunday, the lobby’s chief executive, Wayne LaPierre, invoked his perception of the Israeli school security system to back his proposal.

“Israel had a whole lot of school shootings until they did one thing: They said, ‘We’re going to stop it,’ and they put armed security in every school and they have not had a problem since then,” LaPierre said on the NBC News show “Meet the Press.”

Israel never had “a whole lot of school shootings.” Authorities could only recall two in the past four decades.

In 1974, 22 children and three adults were killed in a Palestinian attack on an elementary school in Maalot, near the border with Lebanon. The attackers’ goal was to take the children hostage and trade them for imprisoned militants.

In 2008, another Palestinian assailant killed eight young people, most of them teens, at a nighttime study session at a Jewish religious seminary in Jerusalem. An off-duty soldier who happened to be in the area killed the attacker with his personal firearm.

Israel didn’t mandate armed guards at the entrances to all schools until 1995, the Education Ministry said - more than two decades after the Maalot attack and two years after a Palestinian militant wounded five pupils and their principal in a knifing at a Jerusalem school.

Israel’s lightly armed school guards are not the first or the last line of defense. They are backed up by special police forces on motorcycles that can be on the scene within minutes - again bringing out the main, but not the only, difference between the two systems.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor spelled it out.

“We’re fighting terrorism, which comes under very specific geopolitical and military circumstances. This is not something that compares with the situation in the U.S,” Palmor said.

Because it is aimed at preventing terror attacks, Israel’s school security system is part of a multi-layered defense strategy that focuses on prevention and doesn’t depend on a guy at a gate with a gun.

Intelligence gathering inside Palestinian territories, a large military force inside the West Bank and a barrier of towering concrete slabs and electronic fencing along and inside the West Bank provide the first line of defense.

Guards are stationed not just at schools, but at many other public facilities, including bus and train stations, parking lots, malls and restaurants.

“There are other measures of prevention of an attack taking place, which are carried out 24 hours a day, seven days a week, all over the country,” police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said. Many are not for public knowledge.

Gun lobbyists who might think Israel hands out guns freely to keep its citizens safe might be less enamored of Israel’s actual gun laws, which are much stricter than those in the U.S. For one thing, notes Yakov Amit, head of the firearms licensing department at the Ministry of Public Security, Israeli law does not guarantee the right to bear arms as the U.S. Constitution does.

“The policy in Israel is restrictive,” he said.


2 posted on 12/25/2012 11:04:54 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: raptor22

The critics who complain that guards won’t work are actually ghouls who want more school children murdered. Never forget that Chris Christie was trashing the idea as he boarded his own New Jersey State Police helicopter: http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-OD249_christ_E_20110601152712.jpg


3 posted on 12/25/2012 11:05:46 AM PST by muawiyah
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To: raptor22
...armed guards at its schools are meant to stop terrorists, not crazed or disgruntled gunmen, experts said Monday...

Ummm. Duh? How do they differentiate between the two?

4 posted on 12/25/2012 11:09:27 AM PST by FlingWingFlyer (U.S. elections have become nothing but another cheap ripoff of American Idol.)
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To: raptor22
If gun-free zones are so safe, Ubama could save the taxpayer tens of millions of dollars a year by declaring a gun-free zone around himself and sending the Secret Service home.
5 posted on 12/25/2012 11:12:15 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism." --Vladimir Lenin)
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To: muawiyah

In the meantime, schools who are aware of this and do nothing should be held responsible for not enacting reasonable precautions against disaster. They and the state have assumed responsibility for the safety of the children entrusted to their care.


6 posted on 12/25/2012 11:12:26 AM PST by Dr. Pritchett
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To: Nachum; markomalley; Clairity; Carlucci; grey_whiskers; meyer; WL-law; Para-Ord.45; ...

7 posted on 12/25/2012 11:14:46 AM PST by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22
The NRA is run by dopes. They should be running a campaign against sophists. Instead of recommending adding another bureaucracy to the tax payer roles, they should point out the lies and weak points of the gun grabbers. It's far more revealing of the collectivists brutality than the killer image they paint of the gun owners.

The essence of the second amendment is the distribution of power to the people to ward off tyrants. The rational goal of the gun grabbers is to disarm the citizens so the elite can rule without the consent of the governed.

The NRA should make a point of pointing out the worldwide historical value of these two points. Show the hypocrisy of the left.

No amount of staffing of armed guards is going to prevent the slaughter of children by lunatics. They will just include them in their plans. It's a dumb proposition. It is OK to point out that the elite often use body guards or carry themselves, but it's worth noting the vast number of victims are no t the political or cultural elite. Also harping upon hunter's rights just imposes the image of Bambi's mothers' killer. Hunting is not t he reason for the second amendment. Keeping the despot at bay is the single purpose.

8 posted on 12/25/2012 11:38:06 AM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts (The meek shall not inherit the Earth)
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To: raptor22

I found out yesterday from my Grandson that they have had an armed guard at their school for a couple of years now. And they train for lockdown situations.


9 posted on 12/25/2012 11:38:13 AM PST by Rappini (Veritas vos Liberabit)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

Ok, so if it’s to stop a terrorist and not a crazed gunman, that’s completely different..../sarc.

(What BIZARRO world do we live in now?????)


10 posted on 12/25/2012 11:38:32 AM PST by CommieCutter
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To: Dr. Pritchett

First they have this gun free zone, secondly you have to sign in when you enter a school building and finally they have phone lists where someone contacts the first name and then they contact two or three others and so on down the line. What more can a school do to protect their students? (yes, sarc)


11 posted on 12/25/2012 11:45:46 AM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: CommieCutter

You noticed that, too! LOL!


12 posted on 12/25/2012 11:50:51 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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On April 20, 1999, Neil Gardner, an armed sheriff's deputy who had been policing the school for almost two years, was eating lunch when Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold arrived at Columbine with their deadly arsenal and deadlier intentions.

Gardner was off campus eating lunch with the school narc at the time.

Gardner said he got a call from a custodian that he was needed in the school's back parking lot. A few minutes later, he encountered Harris, and the two exchanged gunfire. The exchange with Harris lasted for an extended period of time, during which Harris' gun jammed.

Gardner fired four rounds from his Sig Sauer .45 from a distance of 60-70 yards, none of which hit Harris who then retreated inside the school. Gardner did not pursue the shooter. It should also be noted that Gardner was not wearing his prescription glasses when he exchanged fire with Harris.

13 posted on 12/25/2012 11:52:10 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
“We’re fighting terrorism, which comes under very specific geopolitical and military circumstances. This is not something that compares with the situation in the U.S,” Palmor said. Because it is aimed at preventing terror attacks, Israel’s school security system is part of a multi-layered defense strategy that focuses on prevention and doesn’t depend on a guy at a gate with a gun. Intelligence gathering inside Palestinian territories, a large military force inside the West Bank and a barrier of towering concrete slabs and electronic fencing along and inside the West Bank provide the first line of defense.

So the difference is that the Israelis have to contend with terrorists in the Palestinian territories who benefit politically from innocent blood being spilled. Whereas the terrorist who benefits from innocent American blood being spilled is in the White House.
14 posted on 12/25/2012 12:00:49 PM PST by Ragnar54 (Obama replaced Osama as America's worst enemy)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

I CA in 1989, a madman used an SKS to kill kids on the playground. While he did enter school grounds, he could just as easily have done this from outside the property.


15 posted on 12/25/2012 12:16:25 PM PST by umgud (No Rats, No Rino's)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Interesting

and armed guards at its schools are meant to stop terrorists, not crazed or disgruntled gunmen,

Once a "gunman" is there, what's the difference ?
16 posted on 12/25/2012 12:27:20 PM PST by stylin19a (obama -> Fredo smart)
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To: raptor22; mgist; victim soul; Isabel2010; Smokin' Joe; Michigander222; PJBankard; scottjewell; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

17 posted on 12/25/2012 12:33:56 PM PST by narses
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Terrorists yell Allah Akhbar and carry AK-47s and disgruntled gunmen are quiet and carry Bushmasters, duh.


18 posted on 12/25/2012 12:34:58 PM PST by 353FMG
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To: Rappini
“I found out yesterday from my Grandson that they have had an armed guard at their school for a couple of years now. And they train for lockdown situations.”

I didn't know either until after this latest shooting that armed SROs are common in a lot of schools. Clinton asked for another round in 2000.

Flashback: Clinton Requests $60 Million to Put Cops in Schools

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/12/21/Flashback-Clinton-Cops-in-Schools

Evidently liberals don't have a problem with it if suggested by a liberal. They took them out of schools in in upstate NY in 2010.

19 posted on 12/25/2012 2:09:41 PM PST by FR_addict
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To: SkyDancer

Can you imagine the line of thought that must go through a liberal’s head at the after action review to consider lessons learned from Columbine...

“Holy crap, my school needs a phone tree ASAP!! I am awesome!”


20 posted on 12/25/2012 2:35:42 PM PST by Dr. Pritchett
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To: Dr. Pritchett

Right. Phone trees, gun free zones and you must sign in before going anywhere in the building.


21 posted on 12/25/2012 2:59:38 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: Dr. Pritchett

PS - and at the bottom of the phone tree would be the person to contact 911 - but then that person would have a phone tree as to who would be calling 911. Meanwhile ......


22 posted on 12/25/2012 3:02:00 PM PST by SkyDancer (Live your life in such a way that the Westboro church will want to picket your funeral.)
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To: SkyDancer
And the Obama daughters have eleven armed guards AND the Secret Service at their school!
23 posted on 12/25/2012 3:05:44 PM PST by Guenevere (....)
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To: Guenevere

and when our resident nuts/terrorists cannot get a gun, they will simply adopt the strategy of the Palestinian terrorist, and strap explosives on himself and go about his business. It’s not about the means, its about the motive.


24 posted on 12/25/2012 3:52:46 PM PST by Segovia
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

Amen


25 posted on 12/25/2012 4:42:54 PM PST by DallasSun
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To: Rappini

I can speak only for the Northside Ind School District as well as Northeast side has had...the Districts..have had armed school deputies and security for over twenty years here in San Antonio.


26 posted on 12/25/2012 4:45:34 PM PST by DallasSun
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I do not think any of us would want one of our Presidents to be without Secret Service.


27 posted on 12/25/2012 4:48:51 PM PST by DallasSun
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To: stylin19a

Excellent question. There is no difference.


28 posted on 12/25/2012 4:50:48 PM PST by DallasSun
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To: Guenevere

Merry Christmas Guennie. It is so good to see you. I hope you are doing well.


29 posted on 12/25/2012 4:53:12 PM PST by DallasSun
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To: DallasSun
I do not think any of us would want one of our Presidents to be without Secret Service.

The point is that it is hypocritical for politicians to have armed guards and then demand that our children go to government schools where armed guards are prohibited.

They need to live by the same rules they impose upon us.

Or do you disagree with that?

30 posted on 12/25/2012 5:01:03 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism." --Vladimir Lenin)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I do not disagree at all. But I hear few politicians who are not blatantly hypocritical. On both sides. It is as though they do not even care that they are transparently hypocritical.


31 posted on 12/25/2012 5:35:42 PM PST by DallasSun
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To: DallasSun

The petition only covers Ubama and Biteme. They meet the criteria.


32 posted on 12/25/2012 5:37:45 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum ("Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism." --Vladimir Lenin)
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To: muawiyah

Good to hear that Muslim terror attacks are something we don’t need to defend against here in America.


33 posted on 12/25/2012 7:08:37 PM PST by zeestephen
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To: Jack Hydrazine

The “more restrictive” Israeli policy for private gun ownership is mentioned three times.

But no details are provided.

Makes me wonder why.

First thought...

Israel’s policy is designed to limit gun ownership by their 1.6 million Muslim citizens.


34 posted on 12/25/2012 7:21:57 PM PST by zeestephen
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To: DallasSun

Merry Christmas to you too!....Yes, all is well.


35 posted on 12/25/2012 7:49:35 PM PST by Guenevere (....)
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To: CommieCutter

Apparently they have senseless liberal A-holes in the Israeli government also.


36 posted on 12/25/2012 8:56:36 PM PST by jospehm20
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To: raptor22
(Article) LaPierre called for a national school security plan, including an appropriation from Congress for armed guards in every school. "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun," he said.

Sorry, Wayne, you did good but you stumbled here.

Schools are local institutions and should not be federalized w/r/t admin or curriculum on any pretext or presentment whatsoever.

Feds need to butt out. Don't encourage them with talk about a federal role or federal support, regulation, and so on.

37 posted on 12/26/2012 12:09:38 AM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: Jack Hydrazine
[Quoting your source]
Israeli law does not guarantee the right to bear arms as the U.S. Constitution does. “The policy in Israel is restrictive,” he said.

No kidding. Under U.S. law, every Pali would be entitled to wander around strapping an AK.

38 posted on 12/26/2012 12:13:15 AM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: FlingWingFlyer; raptor22
How do they differentiate between the two?

The difference is motive. The terrorist motive is political. The other is personal.

The bottom line is an individual or multiple persons entering a school with weapons with the intent to kill children and/or adults.

The question is what is the best way to prevent the killers from choosing a school for their purpose?

Generally both the terrorist and the other intend or fully expect that they will die in their efforts to kill or in their choice of target they will not be dissuaded by the threat of death but they maybe dissuaded if they believe they may die before achieving their goal.

So in my opinion a single armed guard is not the answer. As with the local police when seconds count they are only minutes away.

The answer is armed teachers and administrators. They are always there when the students are in the school. It does not have to be all teachers but a sizable number so that killers can be reasonably certain that they will kill very few before they are cut down.

39 posted on 12/26/2012 2:41:59 AM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

I have posted before that along with what you propose I would add a surrounding network of sirens. ALL personnel would have a remote device to sound an alert if any suspicious person or activity was noticed.This might an abused system but it is for the schools to provide responsible employees. I also believe that such a system would be ‘unnerving’ to/for a deranged person who is thinking that they have the surprise element of their intentions under their control.


40 posted on 12/26/2012 3:19:27 AM PST by noinfringers2
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To: Grampa Dave; granite; GreenFreeper; grjr21; I got the rope; IchBinEinBerliner; jaredt112; JayB; ...

41 posted on 12/26/2012 5:48:42 AM PST by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: Grampa Dave; granite; GreenFreeper; grjr21; I got the rope; IchBinEinBerliner; jaredt112; JayB; ...

42 posted on 12/26/2012 5:49:19 AM PST by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22

43 posted on 12/26/2012 6:00:33 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: raptor22
From this thread....

OBAMA SECRET SERVICE Pulls Guns On Conservative Tea Party Protesters In Bristol

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2305140/posts

U.S. Secret Service Counter Assault Team member has his assault weapon at the ready while sitting in the rear of a motorcade SUV as Barack Obama arrives at meeting in the Chicago FBI building.

Obama's Secret Service Draws Guns On Couple Driving Too Close To Motorcade

44 posted on 12/26/2012 6:06:47 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: raptor22; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; AccountantMom; Aggie Mama; agrace; ...

ANOTHER REASON TO HOMESCHOOL

This ping list is for the “other” articles of interest to homeschoolers about education and public school. This can occasionally be a fairly high volume list. Articles pinged to the Another Reason to Homeschool List will be given the keyword of ARTH. (If I remember. If I forget, please feel free to add it yourself)

The main Homeschool Ping List handles the homeschool-specific articles. I hold both the Homeschool Ping List and the Another Reason to Homeschool Ping list. Please freepmail me to let me know if you would like to be added to or removed from either list, or both.

Maybe we homeschoolers ought to have armed guards at our schools as well. ;)

45 posted on 12/26/2012 6:10:57 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: raptor22; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; AccountantMom; Aggie Mama; agrace; ...

ANOTHER REASON TO HOMESCHOOL

This ping list is for the “other” articles of interest to homeschoolers about education and public school. This can occasionally be a fairly high volume list. Articles pinged to the Another Reason to Homeschool List will be given the keyword of ARTH. (If I remember. If I forget, please feel free to add it yourself)

The main Homeschool Ping List handles the homeschool-specific articles. I hold both the Homeschool Ping List and the Another Reason to Homeschool Ping list. Please freepmail me to let me know if you would like to be added to or removed from either list, or both.

Maybe we homeschoolers ought to have armed guards at our schools as well. ;)

46 posted on 12/26/2012 6:12:09 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Stayingawayfromthedarkside; Still Thinking; StopGlobalWhining; Straight Vermonter; Tampa Caver; ...

47 posted on 12/26/2012 6:14:55 AM PST by raptor22 (Visit my blog at True Conservatives on Twitter: http://t.co/IKpP3cwq)
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To: raptor22

You bet they did......their own.


48 posted on 12/26/2012 6:25:21 AM PST by sport
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To: jospehm20

Kind of like that moron from Iraq that was saying some anti-American things, can’t remember what it was. I think it had something to do with using their oil against us in someway.

I know a guy that defected from Iraq and said they have political idiots the same way we do in their new gov’t.


49 posted on 12/26/2012 6:28:36 AM PST by CommieCutter
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts

I agree. The only sensible solution is to eliminate the gun free zones.

I am amazed at the number of panic stricken conservatives who apparently believe there’s a deranged gunman hiding in the bushes outside every school in America.

Some Detroit schools have armed security and they still have gang bangers killing each other in schools. Meanwhile the 30 school buildings in my county have never had a shooting EVER. (The half dozen schools in the city do have cops assigned to walk through a couple times per day)


50 posted on 12/26/2012 6:32:15 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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