Posted on 01/05/2013 6:02:47 AM PST by wintertime
Truant school kids get surprise trip to jail /( School:Training to be prisoners of the state)
This video is 2:37 minutes long.
Questions:
Adult prison? Really? Wow! Imagine the lessons taught there!
Why are communities demanding that 18 year old young men ( whose only crime was to be born) attend prison-like school where they are treated in many ways like a state prisoner?
Why should a community do to this to a 17 year old or to any child of any age? These children have committed no crime but the state treats them like prisoners in their prison-like state schools.
What impact will this imprisonment have on the future lives of these young people in this video? ( Please, remember that they have **rationally** rebelled against being treated like a state prisoner in their prison-like state schools.)
What is the impact of having unwilling inmates in prison-like schools on the education of those who are compliant in their prison-like schools?
With the increasing criminalization of childhood behavior, that in the past would have been treated as a learning opportunity, what will be the consequences for our nation?
What will be the consequences of having a nation of voters who have been trained in the prison-like state schools to be comfortable with being state prisoners?
Please remember that behind every government school teacher stand armed police, courts, handcuffs, and hard-time prison. ( Real bullets in those guns on the hip.) Isn't this video proof enough of that?
By the way, although the judge was quoted as saying that kids who are not in school are committing crimes, there was no mention of these young people committing crime ( except for being born and refusing to being treated like a prisoner of the state.)
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
Actually you are wrong. Just go to :28 in the video. The Judge says (paraphrased by the reporter) that these kids that are skipping school aren’t at home watching tv, but they are breaking into houses, breaking into homes, doing drugs etc. THAT IS CRIMINAL acts that should be punishable by jail time and not only 3 days like these kids were getting. They are lucky I wasn;t the judge as they’d be getting more than 3 freaking days for their criminal acts.
What do you suggest that the repeat offenders of skipping school get then? A good talking to? The 18 year old kid in the video with the purple shirt was given SEVERAL warnings before about skipping school and apparently said F_U to the teachers, school or whatever, but now has a 3 day sentence in jail. Good for him, maybe he will THINK TWICE before skipping school next time. I never skipped school when I was that age, so neither should they. Bottom line.
— Modern schools look like prisons.
— Once inside children are treated in many ways like prisoners. They are ordered by the state when to speak or shut up. Their press and free assembly are highly regulated. They can not fully express their religious belief as they wish. They are labeled and numbered and some are now forced to carry GPS traceable chips. They are told when they can exercise, eat, and rest. They are marched about to the sound of bells. Their exercise yards look like prison yards. Guards and drug sniffing dogs patrol the halls, Metal detectors are common. They are subject to searches.
In some ways prisoners have it better. Prisoners are not likely to mowed down by a gun toting lunatic. They have their own toilet so they don't have to use a commode that someone else has peed on. No one is likely to monitor if they eat their vegetables or not. And...They are not subjected to the non-stop godless proselytizing of the government established religion of humanism.
At least criminals have committed a crime. The only “crime” children have committed is the audacity to be born.
Question: Isn't it ***rational** to rebel against being treated like a prisoner when one is completely innocent of any crime?
As usual it does not belong in news - it belongs in "chat" or "personal/bloggers."
That was what the reporter said about the judge’s statements.
At NO point in the court room scenes does the judge make any reference to any criminal behavior by the young people other than refusing to go to school.
If these kids were really breaking and entering that is the crime they would be charged with, ...certainly not truancy.
I have to disagree. Judges have been intermittently treating truancy as misdemeanor offense since compulsory education was enacted (first in Massachusetts in 1852 and last in Mississippi in 1917). And the rationale for this is much more complex than pure statism.
To begin with, minor children are *not* free citizens, and in many ways, in the eyes of the law, they are chattels(1) of their parents or legal guardians.
(1) Chattal. Personal as opposed to real property; any tangible movable property (furniture or domestic animals or a car, etc.)
Public, private and religious schools have long fit into the legal status of “alma mater”(2), where they are temporarily, legally, given custody of children. This means that they are in many ways liable for the conduct on school grounds, or under some circumstances, off school grounds; as much as a dog owner can still be responsible if their dog escapes and runs free.
(2) Latin, “fostering mother”.
Schools however do not have full parental control of students in many ways, and courts have, in recent decades, recognized that students do maintain at least partial civil rights in US law, in school and even at home.
But, just as schools have both authority and responsibility, just as when dogs escape and run free, the local community laws come into effect. And this applies as much for children as it does for dogs.
As such, many communities have decided that minor children at large during school hours need to be controlled, so such communities have enacted daylight curfews of school age children. In effect, truant students may be considered as runaways.
And this is the basis of truancy laws.
Importantly, in the case shown on the video, several other factors come into play. The first is that these students were old enough so that they fit into revised laws that allow “minors to be tried as adults.”
Second, that they were repeat offenders. They had received lesser penalties and warnings that if they continued to be truant, they would get more strident punishment.
Third, and importantly, these were public school students. Had they been private or religious school students, or home taught students, they would have been under very different rules.
The only exception to this situation is that they mentioned a student who was 18 years old. Unless his state is different than most, once a student turns 18, whether or not he is in school, he cannot be considered truant, as he is legally an adult in most ways, and thus automatically has all of his civil rights.
What do you suggest that the repeat offenders of skipping school get then?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It was common for citizens of my parents generation ( born 1913) to leave school at the age of 14. Several of my parents’ friends and my father’s two sisters left school at this age. **ALL** went on to live highly productive middle class lives.
My parents, grandparents, and great grandparents would be appalled that an 18, 17, or even a 14 year old would be forced by the state to attend school when they had no desire to be there.
while I agree public schools now are more prison like than when I went to school, but what you are mentioning about when and where to eat (lunch time and cafeteria), being marched around by school bells (this was probably normal protocol even back in the 50s?) which was all normal to me and I was a child of the 70s. You’re acting like this is all a new phenominon, when the public schools have been like this at least for the past 40 years.
Wow! This is a new one! Kids as dogs.
Responding to the thread:
What the original poster does not realize or chooses to ignore is the fact a school is neither evil or good, it is neutral.
Those who are chronically truant are not going to become the next wave of physicians, lawyers, teachers (gasp!) and working professionals, but instead fill the prisons.
Of course, my opinion is not anecdotal and given enough time I can find plenty of positive empirical evidence to back this as fact. But facts, as we all know, are completely ignored and eschewed by the rabid crowd of homeschoolers.
I have many students who have never missed a day of school this year. They are also the children of well-educated, professional parents who 1. are involved in the school; 2. involved in the community; 3. care about their children.
And, before the whole ‘afterschooling’ comment arises, there are not that many people in my small rural county who can understand Latin well enough to teach it. The local Catholic priest is not as versed as I, so that point is moot.
Finally, my thanks, Gabz, for your kind post elsethread. I have backed off of FR for a while and will likely not return because I go back to work on Monday. Work; where I shall help students reach their potential, enforce the rules, make them think outside of the box, and provide them with work their parents cannot help them with at home.
I wonder if it is inappropriate to ping the original poster of this thread, but I have given my word about it, so I will not. It may, in time, end back up in the hands of the moderators who will no doubt recommend we all learn to play nice and grow a backbone rather than run. I could be wrong, of course.
the video doesn’t show each individual case. What we DO know are the judge’s statements and I would more likely take THAT as fact than the dumbasses that were skipping school. Are you seriously telling me you are on the side of the mother that was forging her 14 year old daughters note to get out of jail or the judges side? I am on the judges side thank you very much.
Please note well - wintertime did NOT respond to your question - in her own alinsky fashion she changed the subject as she is unable to answer such a straight forward question that indicates you may not agree in lock step with her position.
P.S. - I am not being rude by not including her in the “to” line as she has “politely and respectfully” asked for me to never do so again. Expect the same treatment fairly soon.........
Let me get this straight. Kids were caught skipping school at the same time that crimes occurred, and you the judge are going to sentence the kids that skipped school as if they committed crimes? That’s what you said, correct?
Where do you disagree with me? I haven't expressed any opinions other than, whatever your beliefs, you must take into account the history that actually happened.
Government schools pre-date the founding, and the founders themselves seemed to think that they were constitutional.
“All government is evil.”
You seem to disagree with yourself in that after saying that all government is evil, you then explicitly assign certain extremely important tasks to government, including defense, conduct of foreign affairs, and administration of criminal and civil law.
Even so, I don't think the founders would have agreed with you. They were leery of government, recognized its capacity for evil, believed it should be limited, and preferably most active at the most local level, but I don't think when they set up the governments of the United States, wrote the Articles of Confederation and then the Constitution that they believed they were doing something evil.
You make the assertion that government is evil. Since that seems to be counter to the principles on which the Republic was founded, it would seem that you might offer some logical argument in favor of your assertion.
Otherwise, all you've done is make an assertion, not an argument, and then, the rest of your post fails, since it is all contingent on the first premise, that all government is evil.
sitetest
ok now I see the disconnect here. You are still with a Leave it to Beaver mentality (expecting school to be like it was in the early 1900s) and those days are LONGGGGGG gone. I’m from a younger generation growing up in the 70s, but yet not like the current generation of kids that have the entitlement mentality.
You’re talking about grandparents and great great grandparents being appalled about 14-18 year old kids getting in trouble for skipping school. Unless I am unaware, kids have the right to drop out of high school no? Has this changed since the 670s and 80s or am I missing something here? I remember all the PSAs about encouraging kids to stay in school to further their education and to further their liklihood of success rather than dropping out.
Not only would people of my parents, grandparents, and great grandparents generation shake their heads in dismay in how we treat children so would 150,000 years of our human ancestors!
Yuri Besmenov:
“You can show anything or put anything in front of a demoralized person, and it wont matter to them, they wont care”
“As Yuri Bezmenov explains: “Exposure to true information does not matter anymore. A person who is demoralized is unable to assess true information. The facts tell nothing to him – even if I shower him with information, with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures.”
Why am I not surprised?
Can you spell, *d*e*m*o*r*a*l*i*z*e*d*.
I am feeling very discouraged about the future of continuing freedom in our nation.
BINGO you nailed it. Can you please talk to metmom and wintertime and talk some sense into them?
You need to sort out your arguments and make separate cases for each.
At times, you seem to say that it is inherently wrong, or even unconstitutional, for government to take tax money and run schools.
At other times, when faced with the fact that there have been government-funded and -run schools since before the founding, you revert to seeming to say that it is MODERN public schools that are the problem, which implies that if we could go back to the way things were before, government schools would be okay.
At other times, still, you seem to say that all schools are inherently religious, and that it's inherently wrong for governments to run schools because they will either force everyone to accept secularism (which you identify, seemingly, as a religion in itself) or will only provide a lowest-common-denominator sort of religious education, or will wind up favoring one religion over another, offending those who don't accept that religion.
If you believe that government never has any business funding and running schools, then your objection to my post is irrelevant.
The Founders disagreed with you. That doesn't mean that they were right and you are wrong. But in that most Americans, especially of a conservative bent, give significant deference to the actions, thoughts, writings and philosophies of the Founders, it would at least be incumbent on you to 1) admit that you think the Founders were wrong and then 2) to provide a thorough-going philosophical explanation of why they were wrong and you were right. Minus the cant and the rant.
One final note: The state of Maryland began its journey toward many of the ideas that you assign to Horace Mann before Horace Mann became interested in education. Tendencies toward centralization, state control versus local control, standardization of curriculum, use of general tax revenue (including a state real property tax) to provide steady funding for public schools were incubating in Maryland before Mann really exploded on the scene. Your mistake is in seeing Mann as some interloper who came in and single-handedly (and perhaps deceptively?) took American public education off its previous proper course and defiled and degraded it. Horace Mann was merely the most articulate voice for an educational movement that had been developing and brewing throughout the United States during the time beginning prior to Mann's involvement in education. Whether they were good ideas or not, whether you disagree with these ideas or not, they were what most folks wanted.
sitetest
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