YES THERE IS AND YOU ARE CERTIFIABLE. Get yourself fitted for one of these:
Posted on 01/18/2013 12:57:10 PM PST by Kaslin
You are naive.
Every bond sold by the Treasury, to the public or to the SS “Trust Fund” moves money to the GENERAL FUND!
EVERY DIME in the “Trust Fund” has, therefore, been SPEND by the government, through the General Fund.
You are still not understanding my point, you are talking past me but not really refuting me.
I state, clearly, that Social Security is TAXED as a benefit even for those who see little or no Social Security Check, in my line of work.
This is due to the fact that high income retired people OFTEN now pay a great deal for their Medicare benefits.
I predict that this will only get worse.
Social Security is turning into PHANTOM ICOME, income on which people are taxed but they do not ever see that income!
You are ill-informed and don't understand how SS and the trust funds work.
Every bond sold by the Treasury, to the public or to the SS “Trust Fund” moves money to the GENERAL FUND!
Yes, they incur a debt by borrowing the money. Interest must be paid on the debt and the bonds can be redeemed by the holder for dollars. When a T-bill is sold to the Chinese, we must pay them interest on the bond and they can cash them in for dollars any time they want. The more bonds we sell, the larger our debt becomes. The only reason people buy our debt is because it is guaranteed by the good faith and credit of the US to honor that obligation.
EVERY DIME in the “Trust Fund” has, therefore, been SPEND by the government, through the General Fund.
And EVERY DIME of the T-bills held by the Chinese has been spent by the government through the General Fund. What's the difference?
“You and your employer will each pay 3 cents on each dollar you earn, up to $3,000 a year”
that’s what it was when I first paid into it.
By 1978 I had 27 years paid in in full and quit paying into it until I retired at 65 in 2002.
at this point I think I have gotten everything paid in, both halves, plus interest.
I would echo that sentiment. You are missing my point. The premiums paid by Medicare recipients for Parts B and D cover only 25% of the costs of the program. The other 75% must be funded, by law, from the General Fund, which means that we must borrow 42 cents of every federal to pay Medicare benefits for those programs. The taxpayer is subsidizing it directly.
I state, clearly, that Social Security is TAXED as a benefit even for those who see little or no Social Security Check, in my line of work. This is due to the fact that high income retired people OFTEN now pay a great deal for their Medicare benefits.
I understand that quite well. I receive both SS and Medicare. I see the premiums being deducted from my SS check and I know that my SS is also being taxed. Why is that such a major revelation?
I predict that this will only get worse. Social Security is turning into PHANTOM ICOME, income on which people are taxed but they do not ever see that income!
Of course it will get worse. Duh. The taxation of SS benefits started with the 1983 Faustian bargain Reagan struck with Tip O'Neill to save SS. It also raised the age for full benefits from 65 to 67 and forced all federal workers hired from 1983 onwards to contribute to SS.
SUMMARY of P.L. 98-21, (H.R. 1900) Social Security Amendments of 1983-Signed on April 20, 1983
China can show the US Treasury bonds THEY hold as EQUITY or Assets, on their books!
NO government agency can honestly show inter-agency debt on its books as a Positive Asset, it makes no sense.
You can not loan yourself money and neither can the government.
Yet many claim it’s their money because they paid into it, the money is long gone...stolen, and if your insurance won’t cover the theft you will be lucky to get anything at all back.
It makes sense if you understand how trust funds operate. The $2.7 trillion held in the SSTF are assets for the fund, but they represent debt for the federal government, hence their inclusion in the $16.4 trillion national debt.
The various US trust funds account for about $5 trillion of the total debt. They are held as Intragovernmental Holdings as distinct from the publicly held debt. You can ascribe adverbs like "honestly" to the accounting, but the reality is that it is quite transparent and open. The SSTF has been operating the same way since its inception in 1939, i.e., all receipts of revenue must immediately be deposited into USG securities.
It is a positive asset for the trust fund, which uses them to make up the shortfall in revenue to pay full benefits. The Federal Government honors them by redeeming them for dollars that are then paid out to recipients. When they talk about SS being solvent until 2031/32, it just means that full benefits can be paid out until then because of the T-bills held in the SSTF to make up the shortfall. After that, by law, benefits must be reduced to just revenue available.
You can not loan yourself money and neither can the government.
The government can and does. To deny that, denies reality.
The real problem with SS is not the trust fund or the accounting. The fact is that it is actuarily unsound and unsustainable. There is just not enough revenue (actual and projected) to continue to pay future benefits as promised. It is a huge unfunded liability that must be addressed either through increased taxes or decreased benefits or some combination thereof. In 1950 there were 16 workers for every retiree; today it is 3.3; and by 2030 it will be two.
FYI: The largest holder of T-bills is the SSTF followed by the Federal Reserve, which currently buys about 70% of the T-bills offered for sale. The government can print money., which is something an individual cannot do.
THERE IS NO TRUST FUND!
There is NO MONEY in the Trust Fund, since every “credit” is offset by a “debit” -—
You are in fantasy land.
Denial just ain’t a river in Egypt. Your are the one living in a fantasy land. I tried to educate you, but you prefer to wallow in your own ignorance. If there is no trust fund then why is it included in our $16.4 trillion national debt?
Write:
I _________ Owe __________
$1,000,000.00 Dollars
Now write your name on BOTH lines.
Take this paper to the bank and tell them you are a “Millionaire” and see if you can borrow against it!
____
By the way, you are the ignoramus here.
The Debt we HEAR about does NOT include Social Security. That is called “Agency Debt” or “Intergovernmental Debt” and is not included in thedebt figures unless noted.
Please go to the Heritage Foundation and educate yourself.
“Total National Debt consists of publicly held debt and intergovernmental Debt. —— “Publicly Held Debt is more relevant to the credit markets”
You have very little clue about what you post, and you should be ignored by everyone who wants to actually learn anything.
How silly. The government can do things an individual can't including printing money and issuing debt instruments like T-bills.
By law, all receipts into the SSTF must be invested immediately into interest bearing T-bills. Right now, the SSTF holds $2.7 trillion of them. They represent the good faith and credit of the USG to honor them. They always have and now that SS has been permanently in the red since 2010 and Medicare Part A (HI trust fund), these T-bills are being redeemed to make up the shortfall.
You may stomp your foot and get red in the face that there is no trust fund and it contains no T-bills. But it exists and it does contain interest bearing T-bills. You either refuse to understand or can't comprehend how the trust funds fit into our national debt and deficit.
The Debt we HEAR about does NOT include Social Security. That is called “Agency Debt” or “Intergovernmental Debt” and is not included in thedebt figures unless noted.
The debt we hear about is $16.4 trillion, which contains about $11.4 trillion in publicly held debt and $5 trillion in "Intragovernmental Holdings." $2.7 trillion of that is in the SSTF.
The $16.4 trillion debt ceiling that you hear so much about contains the SSTF. It is meaningful because unless the ceiling is raised, the government cannot incur any additional debt. Spending comes to an abrupt halt.
Please go to the Heritage Foundation and educate yourself.
I have been a member of the Heritage Foundation for years. I have hired Heritage analysts to speak to various grassroots groups I belong to. I have attended many briefings at Heritage on a variety of subjects.
As far as educating myself on SS, I have. I attended a week long seminar devoted solely to SS--how it works and how we need to address its problems. I have heard from the head of GAO, the CBO, three congressman and two senators, SS Trustees, the Concord Coaltion, CATO experts, a Nobel winning economist--not Krugman, and many others. I discovered that I really didn't know how SS worked until after hearing these speakers. Solutions ran the gamut from privatization (something I advocate along with a small defined benefit program to cover survivor and disabililty payments) to increased taxes, reduced benefits, and lots of other fixes to reduce the long term liability of the USG, now about $18 trillion over a 75 year period.
I would suggest that you educate yourself on the issues involved. The problem with the solvency of SS has nothing to do with the SSTF and the accounting of the funds. Al Gore's lockbox is a joke. The problem is with the demography of an aging population and fewer workers to pay for a fast growing population of recipients. And the fact that SS benefits are not connected to revenue despite over 40 tax increases and an almost annual increase in the SS salary cap. No one stole the SS money. In essence, SS is a Ponzi scheme that allows the people at the top of the pyramid to get more out of the system than they ever put in. The future will not be as bright for those coming afterwards.
“Total National Debt consists of publicly held debt and intergovernmental Debt. —— “Publicly Held Debt is more relevant to the credit markets”
There is a debate about this among economists as to whether debt we owe to ourselves is really important. The Obama folks and the Left would like you to believe that it doesn't. Personally, I disagree. We are now running in the red as far as the entitlement programs are concerned. In order to redeem these trust fund T-bills, we must borrow 42 cents of every federal dollar to honor that obligation. And the total national debt is woefully understated when you consider that we have in essence obligated ourselves to paying for the entitlement programs--an unfunded liability of over $60 trillion (75 year period)--and that does not include the latest huge new entitlement program of Obamacare.
As far as the credit markets are concerned, you grossly mistate their interest in the US solving its entitlement problems. Look at the statements from Moody's, Fitch, and others. They mention entitlement reform.
You have very little clue about what you post, and you should be ignored by everyone who wants to actually learn anything.
LOL. In psychology, this is called projection. The sad fact is that you not only know very little about how SS works, but you refuse to accept the objective facts about the SSTF and the debt issue. You would rather wallow in your own ignorance and ask others to follow you. If we are going to debate and defeat the other side, we need to use facts not groundless assertions.
For starters, take a look at the 2012 Trustees Report
Legislation can COMMAND rain, but that will not make it rain.
A King can command the tides, but the tides will not listen.
The REASON that governments forbid private industry, or individuals, from certain financial tricks is because those tricks are detrimental to the public good.
The fact that those tricks are detrimental REMAINS even if the government is arrogant enough to allow an “exception” for itself -—
Even if the government breaks the rules of sound actuarial science, even if the government breaks the rules of sound economics, even if the government breaks the rules of sound accounting -—
The RULES of NATURE will prevail.
THERE IS NO TRUST FUND
-— and you are a naive fool to take the LIARS side of this argument.
YES THERE IS AND YOU ARE CERTIFIABLE. Get yourself fitted for one of these:
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