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NTSB questions Boeing’s 787 battery design and certification after short circuit
Seattle Times ^
| February 7, 2013
| Dominic Gates
Posted on 02/07/2013 11:13:13 AM PST by jazusamo
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1
posted on
02/07/2013 11:13:24 AM PST
by
jazusamo
To: jazusamo
We use similar batteries where I work. They go on charging runaway about once a week. First the smell begins. Then the heavy sulphur smell feels heavy in your lungs. Then the smoke begins. At that point I throw the disconnect from about a hundred yards away and wait until the stink clears. Then I call the battery company who comes out and replaces the unit for about $23,000 dollars. It’s a good business to be in. That is until someone decided to get them approved for an airworthiness application / use! Vehicles on the ground have a use profile of maybe two hours a day. Aircraft run 24/7 until a maintenance cycle.
2
posted on
02/07/2013 11:29:43 AM PST
by
blackdog
(There is no such thing as healing, only a balance between destructive and constructive forces.)
To: blackdog
Good points, I’m amazed they were approved for airliners.
Not only are vehicles used less but if an incident occurs you can stop and get out but that’s kinda difficult at an altitude of 35,000 ft.
3
posted on
02/07/2013 11:43:26 AM PST
by
jazusamo
("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
To: jazusamo
Not sure if the design of the batteries is Boeing's or that of the battery's Japanese maunfacturer, GS Yuasa. Japan's equivalent of the NTSB says there are no problems in the manufacture of the batteries:
http://asq.org/qualitynews/qnt/execute/displaySetup?newsID=15287
Attention is now being focused on the circuitry controlling battery current flow. Don't know who designed those components.
4
posted on
02/07/2013 11:59:54 AM PST
by
Captain Rhino
(Determined effort is the hammer that Human Will uses to forge Tomorrow on the anvil of Today.)
To: jazusamo
Not sure if the design of the batteries is Boeing's or that of the battery's Japanese maunfacturer, GS Yuasa. Japan's equivalent of the NTSB says there are no problems in the manufacture of the batteries:
http://asq.org/qualitynews/qnt/execute/displaySetup?newsID=15287
Attention is now being focused on the circuitry controlling battery current flow. Don't know who designed those components.
5
posted on
02/07/2013 12:00:05 PM PST
by
Captain Rhino
(Determined effort is the hammer that Human Will uses to forge Tomorrow on the anvil of Today.)
To: blackdog
Have you considered lead-acid or nickel-iron replacements?
6
posted on
02/07/2013 12:03:32 PM PST
by
null and void
(Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
To: jazusamo
Over 20 years ago we used lithium batteries in offshore submersible seismic equipment. They blew up all the time. Luckily it was usually at night sitting on the rack instead of while someone was handling the equipment.
To: null and void
I've learned that inside today's manufacturing plants, your comment is not welcome until asked for. There are all kinds of grants, cost offsets, tax credits, et al, over what equipment you buy, who you hire, what training you provide, and so on...............
Being smart or correct is not a valuable commodity in a plant. Being safe and approachable seems to be what they want. I just keep stuff running electrically.
8
posted on
02/07/2013 12:11:26 PM PST
by
blackdog
(There is no such thing as healing, only a balance between destructive and constructive forces.)
To: blackdog
*sigh* ain’t that the truth.
(s) a process engineer...
PS I hope no one is killed or permanently injured in the inevitable major fire.
9
posted on
02/07/2013 12:18:36 PM PST
by
null and void
(Gun confiscation enables tyranny. Don't enable tyranny.)
To: Captain Rhino; All
Yes, the batteries are from GS Yuasa, here's an excerpt from another article:
Different materials can be used in these batteries, some safer than others. Based on information posted on its website, Boeing supplier GS Yuasa appears to be using lithium cobalt oxide cathode material, which is the original material used by Sony.
From a safety point of view, thats not the best, said Ji-Guang Zhang, a researcher at the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Richland. He said cobalt oxide batteries ignite at lower temperature than lithium batteries made with other materials, such as iron phosphate.
Supplier GS Yuasa declined to discuss whether the batteries in question use cobalt oxide and referred questions to its partner Thales Group, which didnt promptly respond.
Lithium-ion batteries pack a lot of energy and challenges
10
posted on
02/07/2013 12:19:47 PM PST
by
jazusamo
("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
To: Captain Rhino
Sorry for the double post. Slow link today.
11
posted on
02/07/2013 12:23:57 PM PST
by
Captain Rhino
(Determined effort is the hammer that Human Will uses to forge Tomorrow on the anvil of Today.)
To: Captain Rhino
Anyone knows why the need two huge (for aircraft) battery packs? Seems to me once the APU is started you don’t need that much juice. Same, same for the engines. They each have dual generators.
Not much technical info on the Boeing site.
12
posted on
02/07/2013 12:37:42 PM PST
by
USAF80
Please bump the Freepathon or click above and donate or become a monthly donor!
13
posted on
02/07/2013 12:39:54 PM PST
by
jazusamo
("Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent." -- Adam Smith)
To: USAF80
Anyone knows why the need two huge (for aircraft) battery packs? Seems to me once the APU is started you dont need that much juice. Same, same for the engines. They each have dual generators. Maybe it's extra redundancy for all the electronics. Even small aircraft with glass cockpits have dual alternators and batteries.
14
posted on
02/07/2013 1:01:07 PM PST
by
Moonman62
(The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
To: USAF80
Anyone knows why the need two huge (for aircraft) battery packs? Seems to me once the APU is started you dont need that much juice. Same, same for the engines. They each have dual generators. The control surfaces are electrically operated. What do you do if the fuel is contaminated or gone, and the APU won't start?
15
posted on
02/07/2013 1:04:48 PM PST
by
Yo-Yo
To: USAF80
Forgot to add that the batteries provide power for the essential electroics and control surfaces until the Ram Air Turbine can be deployed.
16
posted on
02/07/2013 1:10:48 PM PST
by
Yo-Yo
To: USAF80
17
posted on
02/07/2013 1:54:46 PM PST
by
RckyRaCoCo
(Shall Not Be Infringed)
To: jazusamo
Well, DUH!
Even my R/C Helo instruction manual has a 2 page warning about the lithium batteries must be watched at all times during charging because they are prone to fires.
18
posted on
02/07/2013 2:27:29 PM PST
by
Petruchio
(Democrats are like Slinkies... Not good for anything, but it's fun pushing 'em down the stairs.)
To: jazusamo
The FAA really doesn’t do much in thir certifications. They read practically no documents, test nothing, and take the word of whomever provides the docs that the docs accurately reflect the actual system.
19
posted on
02/07/2013 2:30:49 PM PST
by
CodeToad
(Liberals are bloodsucking ticks. We need to light the matchstick to burn them off.)
To: jazusamo
Shocking images which were released yesterday of the charred remains of the battery which spontaneously combusted in Japan. Pictures released by the Japanese Transportation Safety Board showed the blackened lithium device with frayed and broken earth wire.
Charred to a crisp: The burnt out remains of the lithium battery from a Boeing 787 which investigators are examining in Japan.
Grounded: The fire on board an All Nippon Airways flight forced the plane to make an emergency landing last month.
Damage: A ground wire which was attached to the burnt battery is showed charred, frayed and broken.
20
posted on
02/07/2013 2:37:44 PM PST
by
rawhide
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