They don't even look alike
Posted on 03/02/2013 10:46:14 AM PST by Kaslin
hi, Alb
First I heard of this was on WMAL yesterday. The radio had just been background noise, then I heard, or thought I heard, “Jeb Bush was swallowed up in sinkhole in FL. His brother tried to rescue him...” Strange, indeed.
Poor guy apparently had several minutes of sheer, unimaginable terror. He was (it seems) awakened as his whole bedroom was being sucked into the sinkhole and screamed for his brother who went running to help. The brother was being sucked in, too, but was rescued by a First Responder.
So he did know what was happening. And his brother will live with the sounds of his screams and the sense of helplessness at his inability to rescue him. Hopefully, the surviving brother gets some serious help.
I wonder what would happen to places in that area if/when the New Madrid fault slips again. I would bet whole towns would disappear into huge holes.
The Upper Peninsula of Michigan was also mining country. Copper up near the shores with Lake Superior and iron ore nearer to the Wisconsin border. Early on they used core drills to locate pockets of iron ore under hilly areas. When they found a large pocket near the surface, they moved down into the valley next to the ore pocket and cut a drift (horizontal tunnel) with a slight upward slope so that water and loaded ore cars would run out by gravity. When they got to the ore pocket that mined out anything they could reach, creating a stope (empty pocket). It was all "hard-rock" mining so they used very little if any shoring to hold the "roof" up. If they got too greedy, the result was an immediate "cave-in", killing all the miners working that shift.
Drift and stope mining was quick and dirty and eventually all the easy ore was gone so they started dropping vertical shafts with a hoisting engine to haul out the muck (rocks and waste) and later ore. The hoisting engine also brought miners to their various drifts on different levels. The deeper they went the bigger the ore pockets became and they continued their practice of taking all the ore out to bare rock, both horizontally and vertically with no shoring.
The Keel Ridge mine just outside of Iron Mountain Michigan collapsed on April 14, 1883 leaving a depression about 1/4 mile wide by 1/2 mile long with a depth of about 200 yards. It collapsed directly around the main shaft, taking the hoisting engine, boiler room and pump works into the pit and burying them under the rubble. Just north of downtown Iron Mountain there is a causeway crossing a good sized lake. The lake is named "Chapin Mine" as it is the collapsed stope of a mine by that name, filled in by ground water.
Norway Michigan has a problem with buildings slowly subsiding as slopes begin to fail at greater depth. Cars driving US 2 at night have dropped into sinkholes that appeared suddenly. Living in abandoned mining country is always interesting...
Regards,
GtG
I hate to be so callous but that is one less Bush to run for POTUS.
My guess he is in a side passage leading to who knows where.
“He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.” Matthew 5:45
It’s important to remember that God’s will is to draw all men to Him. Judgement Day is not yet...
Go see a shrink who will help you to get over your BDS (that is Bush Derangement Syndrome. What makes you think they are relation to President Bush 41, 43 and Jeb Bush?
Do you realize there are 95,318 people in the U.S. with the last name Bush?
You are a certified wingnut alright
Yes, I believe that.
My neighborhood is full of sinkholes. They are of uniform depth. The phenomenon is known as a karst region. The sinkholes are actually collapsed cave rooms connected by smaller passages. My house is on top and I feel certain three is a passage below. One day when I get rich, I’ll rent a ground penetrating radar to see what’s down there.
As a former caver I have sen such many times. The floors of the rooms always contain large pieces of rock that have broken down and fallen from the ceilings above. The breakdown forms a natural structural arch similar to that of a domed building.
Recently I saw a program called Blue Grass Underground filmed in the Volcano Room that seats 400 comfortably.
Unfortunately, we still have with us all of the humorless!
I know absolutely nothing about this process, so bear with me if this is a dumb question: How easy (or difficult) would it be to determine the possibility of a sinkhole developing at a given site prior to building on that site? Is this something that is feasible, or is it impractical to try to make that kind of determination?
No the guys name is Jeff and the brother’s name is Jeremy
They don't even look alike
It seems to me that they are not doing any tests to see if the area is safe to built on and I don’t think it just involves sink holes, but also flood zones. I have heard of developments being built in flood zones that should not have been given been built or permission been given. Of course the home buyer is not told that the area is prone to flooding
“Usually requires more water flow below surface through the limestone to chemically react, change physical properties, displace, and allow for mass flow out of the area.”
Did a google street view. The guy didn’t have a downspout extension at the front of his house, and imagine it was similar in the rear. Dumping 2/3 of his roof water into that side of the house right next to the foundation. And then an earlier poster said they had just had a hard rain.
20 years of water flow, and then one that breaks the camel’s back. In New Jersey with karst terrain it is pretty important to have LONG extensions and perhaps french drains. And at the least - the sinkhole develops away from the house where you might notice it before it collapses.
LOL!! (but not at the soul who fell in the sinkhole or his family...)
“How easy (or difficult) would it be to determine the possibility of a sinkhole developing at a given site prior to building on that site? “
They can happen anyplace in the state. Some areas are more prone to them but there isn’t any way to determine there won’t be one. Only that one isn’t currently on the spot you are building.
Either way, not planning a trip to that area anytime soon.
This is what my long deceased Grandma wished on H'wood, but we're still waiting.
vaudine
A lot of sinkholes form from subsurface water flowing through the aquifer.
Imagine if you will, somewhere beneath the surface, there is a water table. It’s where the soil, be it sand, gravel ,limestone, silt,....etc, becomes saturaed with water. The water pressure is such that there actually is flow beneath the surface. If you dug a hole down, exposed the water table, and threw in some gravel to see it, you would actually see something like a stream flowing at the bottom of the hole.
Underground, it isn’t so much a pipe or open conduit, but rather a media like sand, characterized by how water may flow through it or its permeability.
Different compounds in solid chemistry and different shapes and sizes have different permeabilities. This assumes the chemistry remains fairly steady.
In these Karst areas, there likely are some chemical reactions going on, like salt being eaten away r limestone being broken down, becoming less strong, then the subsurface water is able to break it up and move it in solution or physically as smaller pieces.
When there are subterranean caverns, they might grow or tie together with other dynamics.
In this particular case, it probably wasn’t the rainfall at his house causing it, but it might be a rainfall a county away, flowing in subsurface conduits, and his area happens to erode more than others beneath the surface.
Of course, there also is the chance he was playing with an Ouija board and he suffered the consequences most dramatically, or was buried on an abandoned burial ground....sort of like Poltergeist and they can still hear him.....
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