Posted on 03/10/2013 6:58:09 AM PDT by SoConPubbie
“Likely fellow 2016 GOP presidential rival Marco Rubio has taken some heat from the conservative grassroots for being the face of “comprehensive immigration reform” (or what many conservatives call amnesty). Now it appears Rand Paul is going to the left of Rubio on this issue if you read his column in The Washington Times,” says Steve Deace.
The entire premise of Rand’s piece is what’s best and fair for the illegal aliens, and never discusses what’s best and fair for the people here legally, paying taxes, and paying the freight for those who aren’t.
Gang of 8 Plan A Security Nightmare
“While the Democratic Party has been most often seen as the party that was eager to enable and encourage millions of aliens, including illegal aliens, to enter the United States, the reality is that both Democrats and Republicans see significant gains to be achieved by opening America’s borders to aliens from around the world, irrespective of how they enter the United States,” says Michael Cutler at GOPUSA.com.
“[I]t is impossible to understand how the Gang of Eight has utterly ignored the fact that there is virtually no integrity to the process by which aliens are granted lawful status and U.S. citizenship under the current circumstances. Aliens who are applying to participate in the “DREAM Act” program cobbled together by the President without the consent of Congress are not being interviewed in person.”
Jan Ting – Say No to Another Amnesty
“The so-called comprehensive immigration reform proposed by a group of senators and President Obama amounts to immediate amnesty for millions of immigration-law violators, and the lifting of limits on future immigration, with some window dressing designed to assuage skeptical voters. We’ve seen this act before,” says law professor Jan C. Ting.
“The 1986 amnesty promised to fix the immigration problem by granting amnesty to three million immigration-law violators, strengthening the border, and penalizing employers for hiring illegal immigrants. It didn’t work then, and it won’t work now.”
Fitton – Don’t Be Fooled by Deceptive Amnesty Claims
“More than a few Republicans in the United States Senate seem to have contracted a severe case of what Harry Truman called “Potomac Fever” (wanting to go along to get along in Washington). Apparently still trembling from the recent election debacle, they have cobbled together a deceptive and destructive “bipartisan” compromise on illegal alien amnesty,” says Tom Fitton, president of Judicial Watch.
“There is no question that the Senate plan is unjust. Illegal aliens have broken our laws, and they shouldn’t be rewarded with amnesty and immediate legalization. Here’s something else: Simply talking about providing a “pathway to citizenship” is only going to worsen the already out-of-control illegal immigration crisis by inducing greater numbers of illegal aliens to flood across the border to take advantage of the program.”
It is Rand’s weakest area, but the author alludes to something that a lot of people are guilty of - thinking that all illegals are avoiding taxes - and conversely assuming that all natives are proud tax paying free enterprisers. If we could understand the following, at least some of the heat would be removed from this issue. Most, or at least many, working illegals do have taxes withheld. Many Americans demand to be paid under the table, and there’s a huge economy out there of part time artists and musicians who work for cash, and get government bennies like EBT cards, unemployment, etc - and they are mostly natives.
A little more light and a little less heat would help us understand these arguments better. I don’t particularly care about the “heartless” aspect that Rand and Perry seem hung up on, but the cold hard reality is important to me.
And yet, think about that for a second:
Open borders, no benefits.
That is 50% perfect. If we had a secure border, and NO benefits, this situation would self correct starting immediately, and probably be largely solved within 5 years.
Not to mention, any society needs a large population of entry level job workers, able bodies that are attached to perhaps not so capable or smart minds...yet willing to do the hard dirty crap that we all need to get done.
The union, minimum wage, and extended welfare movements are trying to turn grunt 5 dollar an hour jobs into 20 dollar an hour careers....and allow men to be perpetual children by paying them their entire careers for work that should be, and can be, done by entry level folks, and allowing them to retire at 55 having never done a grown up job their entire life. It is this, more than almost anything else, that is killing our economy.
The cold, hard reality is that Steve Deace is annoying, self-righteous, completely convinced of his own infallibility, and wasn’t going to support Rand Paul anyway.
That said, it wouldn’t be surprising if Rand Paul spoke out of both sides of his mouth on any given issue. It’s what current politicians do and what he grew up with.
Open borders means serbs, hezbullah, al qaeda, somalis, hamas, falsestinians, venezuelans, guatemalans, morrocans, saudis, yemenis, syrians, pakistanis. egyptians, et al. Why would you think open borders would just mean Hispanics?
“...it wouldn’t be surprising if Rand Paul spoke out of both sides of his mouth on any given issue...”
Except that so far, he hasn’t.
You may be right about Deace, and maybe even Rand as well - but I do have a passion to have the immigration debate handled intellectually honestly, and it is not there at this point. My life experiences over the past 22 years have allowed me some significant insight into the realities of immigration - and I fear that conservatives will needlessly split on this issue, allowing those who have our worst interests in mind to keep their power. I so wish people would realize the following, which I believe at the deepest level to be true:
A: mass deportation is not going to happen. Period. There is a moral case to advocate for it for sure. There is a legal case to advocate for it, for sure. There is an economic case to advocate for it, and one against it - but in reality, none of this matters - because it simply won’t happen - because it simply cannot happen. Cold hard fact.
B: Until the border is secured, no other issues of illegal Hispanic immigration really matter. You cannot do surgery, or attach a band aid, or anything else until the bleeding is stopped. Cold hard fact.
C: There are two distinct illegal populations, and while both are equally illegal, one is far more devastating to our culture and economy. That would be those lured here by give aways. This battle should always be fought with this in mind.
D: Most illegals who work do pay taxes under with holding. And they are not necessarily under paid. Many natives are paid under the table, especially in entry and labor related industries.
E: If we would solve our own union and government unemployment compensation problems, forcing the emergence of an American entry level workforce not afraid of physical labor, this problem would largely go away.
F: A secure border, plus the end of the give aways, would cause supply and demand to solve this problem within a few years. Supply and demand, plus a weak border of 60 years, has caused it. It won’t go away overnight, but if the incents are handled properly, it will self correct. Human nature is far more powerful than even a secure border...and a million pages of rules and regs.
So there is no difference between the stance in the editorial and the stance on the website?
You clearly did not read my post, or don’t understand what 50% means. Maybe take another stab at it.....
“That is 50% perfect. If we had a secure border...”
You are absolutely tight and I apologize. Mixed this up with the open borders and no benefits post. My bad.
The word is right. No sleep yet. Hyper, hyper.
Not what I want...I want the laws enforced, including deportation...Paul is softer, but he’s as good as anyone else out there in office at this time. As he states..., we already have defacto amnesty, because few of them, including criminals are being deported. We’re going to have amnesty shoved down our throats. I think I’d rather have Paul in charge of it than anyone else, because he’d work to cut off the magnets. He is very naive about aliens paying taxes, since half of them are on welfare.
What do you all think?
No prob, and the salient point is that now we have a porous border PLUS all kinds of benefits...which is 100% IMPERFECT! As I stated in a longer post earlier, a solid border plus an end to bennies would allow this problem to self correct with little or not disruption to other law enforcement activities and no disruption to the economy - and too many “deport at all cost” folks have zero idea how their own lives, and the lives of hundreds of millions of citizens - would be screwed up from both a LEO and economic stand point if this were done.
“Rand Paul, like his father before him, supports “Open borders - no benefits”. The argument really isn’t with the illegals themselves, it is with a certain political entity that desperately wants to buy their future votes. That door has to be slammed shut and locked. “
Well stated!
“In comparison to whom?”
Exactly.
No doubt in my mind that the benefits are an open, golden gilt edged invitation for illegals to come on in. It sucks.
The chaos principle at work.
Invariably followed by the strawman "we can't deport them all", therefor we need "reform".
Incentivizing criminal behavior while thwarting law enforcement are tactics. The left is holding the country hostage until their demands are met. They seek a constituency accustomed to strong-man governments and public dole, a constituency refusing to be acculturated with American values, one instead clinging to their culture and language.
Agreed.
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