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Republicans for Gay Marriage? One GOP pollster thinks it’s all but inevitable.
National Review ^ | 03/13/2013 | Daniel Foster

Posted on 03/13/2013 6:50:42 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Jan van Lohuizen, a former George W. Bush pollster with a Ph.D. from Rice, is on a mission to show that opposition to same-sex marriage is a political and demographic dead end, propped up by a shrinking core of the old, the undereducated, and the highly churched. Bitter clingers, if you will, to the idea of traditional marriage.

“I have any number of gay friends who are Republicans, but what makes me tick is that I have concerns that this is another issue that would limit the growth of the Republican party,” van Lohuizen told me in a phone interview.

“If you believe that the government is better off if it is governed by Republicans than Democrats, you have to worry about issues that impede the growth of the party. And this is one.”

Together with Joel Benenson, former lead pollster for President Obama’s first campaign, van Lohuizen has looked at decades of polling data on gay marriage and come to some interesting conclusions in a series of memos the pair has distributed to policymakers, think tanks, and political media.

Most significant, support for gay marriage is accelerating. “We originally wrote a memo in May of 2011 that basically said that in the previous 20 years, the increase of support for gay marriage had been about 1 percent a year,” van Lohuizen told me in a phone interview. “And then somewhere around 2009 there was an increase to 4 or 5 percent. It’s like a hockey-stick curve. All of the sudden there is this elbow.” With due apologies for the “hockey stick” reference, this is certainly borne out by the shift in the fortunes of pro-gay-marriage ballot initiatives. After a decade marked by almost universal failure, all four pro-gay-marriage measures on state ballots in 2012 passed.

Second, the coalition supporting gay marriage is more broad-based than the coalition opposing it. “If you look at the crosstabs, the opposition is really concentrated in a few really small groups,” van Lohuizen says. “Evangelical whites, tea-party Republicans, older voters, and whites that do not have a college degree.” Indeed, national exit-polling data from the 2012 election shows that while support for gay marriage sits at 37 percent with voters 65 and older, 52 percent of younger voters support “freedom to marry” (the phrase strategically used in place of the slightly more loaded “marriage equality” in Benenson and van Lohuizen’s memo on the subject). Likewise, gay marriage enjoys majority support from all major religious confessions except white evangelical Protestantism — including mainline “non-evangelical” Protestants, Catholics, and Jews. And while a majority of whites without college degrees oppose gay marriage, majorities of whites with college degrees, and nonwhites of all education levels, support it.

Even among Republicans, opposition to same-sex marriage is increasingly tenuous, particularly along two axes. First, self-described tea-party Republicans oppose gay marriage 84/13, while Republicans who describe themselves as neutral toward or opposed to the Tea Party oppose gay marriage by smaller 62/34 and 52/47 splits, respectively. This is a more or less momentous split depending on how credible one finds evidence that tea-party membership is in sharp decline.

Second, and perhaps most critically, exit polling shows that 51 percent of Republicans under 30 support gay marriage in their state. If this datum alone holds, one might think, gay marriage is a fait accompli in the near to medium term. And indeed, the polls report just that feeling among the broader public: 83 percent of voters, supporters and opponents included, think that gay marriage will be legal nationally in the next five to ten years.

But is a Republican party that is broadly pro-gay-marriage an inevitability, and sooner than later? Here the data is perhaps less definitive than it looks on the surface. Consider the above datum, which shows that young Republicans support gay marriage in their state. This, of course, fails to capture a number of distinctions that most Republicans and conservatives consider important to the gay-marriage debate. Does support among young Republicans for “freedom to marry” in one’s state of residence imply support for federal intervention in the marriage question?

Many on the left who support “marriage equality” frame it as a civil-rights issue and favor a federal remedy, as they do in most civil-rights contexts. But it would be dubious to infer that the Republican respondents to the above question would favor a similar remedy, considering the relative importance Republicans and conservatives place on the principles of federalism. Likewise, I asked van Lohuizen whether any of the data he looked at distinguished between support for various other means of gay-marriage legalization — from judicial imposition to legislation to ballot referenda — that are likelier to draw out distinct responses from self-described Republicans and conservatives for similar, principled reasons.

While van Lohuizen admitted that such distinctions aren’t captured in the data that informs his memos, he referred to a survey he helped design on support for the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA). Two questions — one on the section of DOMA that forbids the federal government from recognizing legal same-sex unions from the states, and the other on the section that denies various legal benefits afforded to spouses (such as hospital visitation) to same-sex couples — suggest that support for and opposition to same-sex marriage can and do exist apart from support for and opposition to individual principles and doctrines implicated in the gay-marriage debate.

To wit, the survey shows that while only 52 percent of respondents supported gay marriage, 59 percent believed the federal government should recognize legal same-sex unions from the states. And even larger majorities believed that the government should extend to same-sex couples various privileges and responsibilities attendant on traditional marriage:

Interestingly, while there are conservatives and Republicans who express these sorts of “cat’s out of the bag4” views on issues attendant to legalized gay marriage, there are also attempts by some gay-marriage proponents to accommodate the worries of Republicans and conservatives on the same. Here, van Lohuizen pointed to Maryland’s Question 6, which last year granted gay and lesbian couples the ability to obtain civil-marriage licenses. But the ballot question also, according to an official summary:

protects clergy from having to perform any particular marriage ceremony in violation of their religious beliefs; affirms that each religious faith has exclusive control over its own theological doctrine regarding who may marry within that faith; and provides that religious organizations and certain related entities are not required to provide goods, services, or benefits to an individual related to the celebration or promotion of marriage in violation of their religious beliefs.

It’s not crazy to think that Question 6, which passed with a narrow majority of 52.4 percent and represents the first time same-sex marriage has been legalized in the United States through a popular vote, was pushed across the finish line by such protections. Indeed, the legislative precursor to Question 6 passed the Maryland state house only after its sponsors beefed up religious protections.

In a world in which one can be against gay marriage but for its recognition, and for marriage equality but against requiring its religious recognition, it’s not enough to ask whether the Republican party is destined to wed “freedom to marry.” The truth is, it’s complicated.

— Daniel Foster is NRO’s news editor.



TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2013polls; gaymarriage; gop; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; republicans
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To: BillyBoy
Never going to understand conservatives who fawn over Rice

My take on it is that the GOP has been inundated by liberals who abandoned the demoRATic party because it went communist. All that's left now is for conservatives to find a conservative voice (and another party).

41 posted on 03/13/2013 11:22:04 AM PDT by LouAvul
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To: SeekAndFind

If the GOP turns around and supports sodomite marriage and sexual perversion, a viable third party will finally arise.


42 posted on 03/13/2013 11:27:53 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: SeekAndFind

I actually know some gays in San Francisco that don’t want to redefine the traditional institution of marriage and have been voting Republican since the 80s.

I guess these people aren’t polled because the “LGBT” radical establishment has drowned out their voices.


43 posted on 03/13/2013 12:37:27 PM PDT by CountryClassSF
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To: Linda Frances

Islam has a definition of marriage.


44 posted on 03/13/2013 1:44:10 PM PDT by ansel12 ( August 29,2008 A Natural Born Reformer inadvertently unleashed within palace walls, change ensues.)
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To: BillyBoy

No one is to the left of Romney, the real Romney.


45 posted on 03/13/2013 2:04:23 PM PDT by ansel12 ( August 29,2008 A Natural Born Reformer inadvertently unleashed within palace walls, change ensues.)
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To: BillyBoy; sickoflibs; NFHale; fieldmarshaldj; AuH2ORepublican; GeronL

I feel like most of the very recent pro-gay support is very soft, it must be they just changed their minds 5 minutes ago, still it’s hard to be optimistic.

Maybe we should play up the financial angle, do people really want to be giving taxpayer funded benefits to people’s gay lovers? Even if it means higher taxes for THEM? We’re broke son.


46 posted on 03/14/2013 12:37:26 AM PDT by Impy (All in favor of Harry Reid meeting Mr. Mayhem?)
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To: Impy; BillyBoy; NFHale; fieldmarshaldj; AuH2ORepublican; GeronL
RE :” I feel like most of the very recent pro-gay support is very soft, it must be they just changed their minds 5 minutes ago, still it’s hard to be optimistic .”

There is ZERO reason to be optimistic.
There is no one out there arguing against it, mean-while ex-Bush-admins and other GOP out of office are joining Dems on it, ‘marriage equality’.

RE :” Maybe we should play up the financial angle, do people really want to be giving taxpayer funded benefits to people’s gay lovers? Even if it means higher taxes for THEM? We’re broke son.

Good luck with that. Dems will just say raising taxes on the rich will pay for it, err cutting loopholes.

Unless the GOP (or some other visible entity) makes a convincing 'fact based' sounding argument that the homo-lifestyle in itself is destructive, like the way the government did against smoking, then the libs will continue to advance on gay rights stuff.
And what I mean is not the type of arguments you hear on talk radio ("Barney Fwank brought down the world economy') . Something that holds up ina at least a light breeze.

And since that is not even being tried...

47 posted on 03/14/2013 4:56:42 AM PDT by sickoflibs (O's sequester Apocalypse tour just proved why we need the 2nd amendment more than ever NOW!)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

a child of a normal couple never needs to know they are adopted or anything other than a normal child of one mother and one father.

two homosexuals are always ONE mother/father and mommy’s/daddy’s recreational sex partner.

even a childless NORMAL couple supports socciety because they can easily raise a child as mother and father. (accidents, adoptions[though adoption is legislative not common law])

homosexuls contribute nothing to the future of society.


48 posted on 03/14/2013 6:11:25 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: sickoflibs
Unless the GOP (or some other visible entity) makes a convincing 'fact based' sounding argument that the homo-lifestyle in itself is destructive ... then the libs will continue to advance on gay rights stuff.

This is, exactly right.

I've been trying, in my own debates... but, I haven't found it yet. Certainly, no one on the national stage has come forth with anything.

For people who care NOTHING about the morality, it's a tough sell.

49 posted on 03/14/2013 7:13:32 AM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: longtermmemmory
homosexuls contribute nothing to the future of society.

yea... right. You say THAT to a kid today, they won't hear ANYTHING else you have to say.

Besides being patently false, that kind of attitude gets you pidgeon-holed into the "bitter clinger, homo-phobe" category.

50 posted on 03/14/2013 7:16:52 AM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: SomeCallMeTim
RE :”This is, exactly right.
I’ve been trying, in my own debates... but, I haven’t found it yet. Certainly, no one on the national stage has come forth with anything.
For people who care NOTHING about the morality, it’s a tough sell. “

I live in Maryland and have talked to many young adults who not surprisingly claim they reject GOP over social issues (gay rights cited) there there really is no one (public figures) that is arguing the alternative side to them in a logical way.

And it cant be Tod Akin type stupidity either,

Is the gay lifestype destructive to society or not?
Are we to designate more special protected classes of victims (entitlements) based on feelings?
Where does that end?
(these are not to you)

51 posted on 03/14/2013 7:34:49 AM PDT by sickoflibs (O's sequester Apocalypse tour just proved why we need the 2nd amendment more than ever NOW!)
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To: sickoflibs
I live in Maryland and have talked to many young adults who not surprisingly claim they reject GOP over social issues (gay rights cited) there there really is no one (public figures) that is arguing the alternative side to them in a logical way.

I live in Kentucky, a VERY Red state... and have two sons, 23 and 25 years old. I hear the same from them, and many of their friends. They are very conservative on MOST issues... certainly, economically. But, on this issue, they have totally bought into the: "they deserve to be treated like anyone else" argument.

Gay people have been around, forever. But, there really aren't THAT many of them. It's hard to argue that they can bring "destruction to society". They simply aren't THAT important.. and, many of them are relatively intelligent, productive people.

The most successul tact I have found in this argument is: Marriage is a religious institution, NOT a civil one. We really SHOULD separate the two, completely... including the wording. ALL goverment benefits should be granted to "Civil Unions". They usually agree with this....

But I lose them when I say: "Heterosexual Unions are important enough to society, as a whole, to have governments financially subsidize them, with the goal of encouraging children... to keep our population from declining."

They don't make the logical connection that, Gay Civil Unions are NOT WORTHY of financial support from society. They say everyone should be treated the same. I usually respond with, "I WISH the IRS treated everyone the same.. " Then, we all laugh... and part.. but no minds are changed. :-(

52 posted on 03/14/2013 7:55:58 AM PDT by SomeCallMeTim ( The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them)
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To: SomeCallMeTim

What I like about your comments is it is obvious that you go out in the real world and try to engage (young) people and you realistically gage what the difficulties are in this battle.

So many posters sound like they blasted off to Mars in 1984 and only know whats going on in the USA from talk radio broadcasts, down from the Bunkers.
You dont sound like a Koolaid drinker,.

Have you ever talked to your sons about male homosexualss dangerous sexual practices and the real consequences of those actions? Then point out how the Dems nanny state argument is about protection from ourselves, like from drinking sodas??

I understand this argument does not apply to lesbos, but it is a defendable one.


53 posted on 03/14/2013 8:17:08 AM PDT by sickoflibs (O's sequester Apocalypse tour just proved why we need the 2nd amendment more than ever NOW!)
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To: sickoflibs; Impy
>>> But dont you know that as soon as we go along with gay’s getting married and illegals getting the vote that both groups will join the tea party and support ending medicare and social security and medicaid and food stamps and education funding and O-care while supporting cutting taxes on income earned over $1M to create 'jobs'(even though they are no-where near earning that income) ??? It could be so easy, gays and illegals are natural conservatives who only differ from us by a single issue. I learned this on The Morning Joe, and that bald Mccain 2008 campaign advisor Steve Schmidt who works for MSNBC, Michael Steele too. Evolve (as rand paul says) dude :) <<

Heh. I was just arguing with a group of Rand Paul fanboys on another thread, and their excuse for giving Rand Paul a pass on amnesty is that illegal alien amnesty is "inevitable" so we might as well have their tea party hero Rand Paul in charge of it. Wave the white flag! We should start referring to "conservatives" who say gay marriage and illegal alien amnesty us "inevitable" as Vichy Conservatives. ;-)

>> I feel like most of the very recent pro-gay support is very soft, it must be they just changed their minds 5 minutes ago, still it’s hard to be optimistic. Maybe we should play up the financial angle, do people really want to be giving taxpayer funded benefits to people’s gay lovers? Even if it means higher taxes for THEM? We’re broke son. <<

They've gotten a ton of mileage for the gay marriage bandwagon by pushing the idea that the ONLY people who are against "marriage equality" are mean-spirited, uneducated, bible-thumping evangelical protestants over age 65. Referring to everyone against gay marriage as "haters" and "bigots" has caused a ton of people to cave overnight and publicly announce they support "marriage equality" because they don't want to be seen as "hating gay people" or "go down in history" as being the sexual equivalent of Klansman. Our side didn't wake up and realize how far the left has advanced on this issue until the damage had been done and a tidal wave of legislators across America started passing what was unthinkable 10 years ago.

Ironically, one of the places where we DID stop the momentum is a state where conservatives are in disarray and the left routinely win contests that should competitive: Illinois. They passed "civil unions" in Illinois in 2010 by insisting that was as far as it would go, and once they had the exact same legal rights as a heterosexual marriage, they wouldn't push to redefine marriage. Of course they broke that promise a scarce 2 years later, but this time we were ready for them. Despite the Dems having a veto-proof majority in BOTH houses of the Illinois legislature, they've run into a brick wall trying to pass gay marriage for the last three months. Their "inevitable" plans have been "delayed" since they tried to ram it thru the lame duck session in December. Part of the reason they can't get what they want is so many black pastors from Chicago are giving their RAT legislators hell, so various RAT legislators in "safe" districts won't publicly support the bill due to embarrassment from the locals. If we could get some atheist homosexuals to openly speak out against gay marriage like in France, it would debunk the myth that anyone who is against gay marriage "hates" gay people and is only opposed to it for religious reasons.

Our idiot RINO State Party Chairman in Illinois actually endorsed gay marriage and called for GOP legislators to vote for the bill. He's looking really stupid now because I doubt telling those black pastors they're "on the wrong side of history" and ignoring the black GOP nominee for Jesse Jackson Jr.'s seat will "grow the Republican party" and "create a big tent that reaches out to minorities".

They don't have the same kind of momentum with illegal alien amnesty that they do with gay marriage (the average voter isn't drinking the kool-aid that you MUST favor amnesty for illegals or you "hate" Hispanics, etc.) but we do have the same surrender monkey mentality with some conservatives who think its "inevitable" and we might as well cave on this issue because we don't want to "offend" Hispanic voters, blah blah blah. Same tactics can be used to combat the left on this issue: get some prominent Hispanic Americans and/or immigrants who became naturalized citizens to publicly speak out and FIGHT for our side on this issue, and they can't use the "you hate Hispanics/immigrants" card. Governor Susanna Martinez is getting hell from the left for fighting them on this issue ("you're a bad Catholic", etc.)

We need conservatives to grow a spine and stop listening to the advice of Rand Pauls and Newt Gingrich's on the right to waive the white flag on these issues for political survival. The left never does so, even when they're hopelessly outnumbered in momentum and public opinion (witness their constant push for "gun control" when polls show that popular support for more gun laws is at an all-time low in public opinion)

54 posted on 03/14/2013 12:03:23 PM PDT by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
RE :”Heh. I was just arguing with a group of Rand Paul fanboys on another thread, and their excuse for giving Rand Paul a pass on amnesty is that illegal alien amnesty is “inevitable” so we might as well have their tea party hero Rand Paul in charge of it. Wave the white flag! We should start referring to “conservatives” who say gay marriage and illegal alien amnesty us “inevitable” as Vichy Conservatives. ;-)”

I too recognize that this situation is dire because Dems have figured out how to motivate and get the Hispanics to vote in large numbers

I came up with a more devious and cynical version of addressing this problem.
The GOP should propose a reform bill that has enough poison pills in it that :

1) Few will apply for it, for the legalization
2) Dems will Freak out and hate it and kill it (that action seems to rally many around here to claim its the cure for aging.),
but it can be explained rationally to the average voter who is biased toward amnesty without alarming him.

Just as a humorous example, suppose everyone who applies for amnesty has to be forced to join new privatized SS (ala GWB 2007) and Medicare (ala Ryan 2011) plans, and so they cannot be part of the current government financed systems.

That would get Dems to freak out and kill it. Then the GOP takes acting classes so they can get on TV and convincingly weep for poor immigrants who have no county, and blame Dems of course..

BTW : Dont forget Rubio's plan, Rubs the covert neo-con as Paul is the covert libertarian(I keep doing this, sigh, I just cant join either club 100%), ironically they seem to agree on this issue.

55 posted on 03/14/2013 5:08:34 PM PDT by sickoflibs (O's sequester Apocalypse tour just proved why we need the 2nd amendment more than ever NOW!)
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