Skip to comments.Supreme Court sides with timber industry in logging road runoff dispute
Posted on 03/20/2013 8:56:20 AM PDT by jazusamo
WASHINGTON The Supreme Court on Wednesday sided with timber interests in a dispute over the regulation of runoff from logging roads in western forests.
In a 7-1 vote, the court reversed a federal appeals court ruling that held that muddy water running off roads used in industrial logging is the same as any other industrial pollution, requiring a Clean Water Act permit from the Environmental Protection Agency.
(Excerpt) Read more at oregonlive.com ...
Ping to a win for the timber industry.
Excellent...A real blow to enviro-nazis. Nothing but plain common sense.
Muddy water is industrial pollution???...Asshats for the environment please get a grip!
Now...about the dumb owl....It doesn’t need millions of acres of woodlands to survive....It needs to scr** its brains out. Viagara for birds??
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Obama and Agenda 21
good! - we cannot murder another industry
Antonin Scalia dissented, saying that the court gives EPA and other agencies the authority to say what their rules mean “for no good reason.”
Smokey the bear gives a hat tip.
More dead fish.
I hate environmental idiots as much as the next Freeper.
But runoff from loggers has (in my estimation) killed more fish than all the nets and hooks ever used.
You see, the silt from the runoff clogs the loose gravel spawning beds. The eggs suffocate.
I don’t mind that loggers log. It’s their land, and their tree. I don’t mind if they cut down every single tree they own.
But the moment their effluent comes into MY (read: OUR) river, they may not send their crap downstream.
The equivalent is if your neighbor’s septic system was directly routed to the property line, and spilled over onto your property. You’d rightly be pissed. He’s welcome to his effluent, and keep it controlled and managed on his property. But the moment his crap comes onto your lawn, it’s actionable.
Same with loggers. If they can control their dirt, I don’t care how many trees they take down. Just keep your damned dirt out of the salmon spawning beds. The loggers have killed so many millions already, they should have to do what we do in our yards: Keep your crap to yourself.
(In pure conservative economic terms, the issues are “free rider,” and “externality.” It is not a free market principle to allow free riders to externalize their costs onto others.)
That’s a head slapper for me.
Uncle Miltie, the runoff from logging is NOTHING compared to the run off of outlawed chemicals and skinning the land that takes place on millions of acres of OUR public lands by armed illegal alien drug cartels growing dope.
This is a win for everyone (except the EnviroNazis, of course).
You have a point. I am a fisherman also. Proper drainage along the road to a holding pit should be required not total banning of logging like the numbnuts on the left want...
Agreed. Glad to hear States can take care correctly.
Now we need to de-list the “Northern” Spotted Owl, a fictional construct manufactured by environazis because the “California” Spotted Owl (the same critter, just to the South) is doing just fine.
Some states may be well equipped, but a vast majority of logging takes place on National Forests, making it a federal, not state, issue.
I know that. I open-carried in the woods of Oregon because you’re more likely to run into a Mexican grow operation than you are a bear or cougar.
Exxcellent! VA also won a case vs the overwrought EPA last month.
I agree on the Spotted Owl fiasco and also question the thing from the start. I know for a fact they live quite well in second growth, at least they were in So OR in the 80’s.
I’ve filled out 3 permits this week....you have no idea how regulated ‘erosion’ is.
The funny thing about the spotted owl is that it is being run off it's territory by the barred owl (a new preditor that is migrating to forests in the Pac NW).
So the tree huggers are wanting to kill all the barred owls before they lose their argument for killing logging,
Yes, and very tasty with an orange sauce.
Wrong, the majority of logging takes place on private property. The preservationists have been very effective in surpressing logging on Federal lands in the last 20 years. The result has been the extreme fire seasons as evidenced in places like Colorado last year. Most logging companies already leave a 100’ buffer around streams to keep runnoff from clogging up spawnning beds. This is just another surrogate issue created to stop logging in all western forests.
So when your house burns down because of a lightning strike on federal forest land creates a forest fire of dead beattle kill lodgepole pine spreads to your subdivision, you will have nobody to blame except yourself.
Mexican grown operation
Vietnamese/Cambodian fern pickers
If you want to be a bit frightened, look at all the bullet holes in wilderness campground out houses and visualize yourself inside! Thank the above two groups for those holes, not a piliated wood pecker.
The barred owl thing with the enviros is a hoot, they really don't have a clue. On the one hand they've cost people billions in timber states to supposedly saved that damn owl but on the other hand they want to kill off the barred owl.
Everyone but themselves always have known they're insane and this proves it.
Silt is also the primary source of nutrients for streams. Which is more important - a few fish or a thriving economy?
Ohio (and America, by extension) made the “fish” choice on the Cuyahoga River, when that river was a waste channel which burned off the flammable flotsam.
Now, Ohio has a thriving bass fishing river and the Ohio steel industry is basically gone.
Question: Which makes more money for more people - selling fishing worms or a rail car of steel?
The issue at hand is logging, which happens primarily in the PNW, not the banks of the Ohio.
The steel industry in America did itself in with high (unionized) costs, tariffs, etc., IIRC.
I live on the banks of the Rogue River and every winter we
watch the water turn muddy when we have the big storms. The first day the water is filled with tree trunks, logs, beer coolers, detritus and junk. We laugh at the EPA regulations because Mother Nature doesn’t know how to read.
I live in Southern Oregon in Douglas County. Since they have shut down most the logging even on the county owned lands, we are in serious financial trouble. Did you know that we are in the 19th year of receiving 50 million dollars per year from the feds due to the restrictions put on logging our county owned lands? There are federal lands, state lands and O&C lands, county owned lands that were given to Coos, Curry, Josephine and Douglas from the feds to support our local governments over 80 years ago. They should never been included in the spotted owl suit.
BTW, the spotted owl population over the last 19 years has not increased at all, in fact they are now being eaten by the Bard owl and are diminishing in numbers big time. The coast range is the #1 growing area of Douglas Fir trees in the world. But all we do with them is grow them and then they all burn up in fires and even then we cannot log them and replant, there are thousands of acres of burnt forests that are rotting and growing weeds as the environmentalist won't allow us to harvest our burnt trees and replant. What I try to teach people is Oregon's resource crop are trees, instead of an annual crop ours is 40 years, let us manage them ourselves instead of a bunch of pinheads in DC that don't know anything about our resources and how to harness them to provide jobs and security for our population.
Meanwhile unemployment is over 15% and the only resource we are exporting any more are our children.
“The issue at hand is logging, which happens primarily in the PNW, not the banks of the Ohio.
The steel industry in America did itself in with high (unionized) costs, tariffs, etc., IIRC.”
“Environmental issues are paarmount” is the core premise.
Unions have to have regulatory protection or employers usually find more productive and less expensive labor. Many costs imposed on the Ohio steel industry were imposed by the only force capable of such imposition - Government laws and or regulations.
The underlying motivation/purpose of all too many enviro laws/regs was the destruction of America’s economy and culture.
Barred Owls must be Republicans.
In my home town (Hoquiam WA), the only old growth still available is a 25 year old welfare office built during the spotted owl fiasco
I watched Bill Clinton hold the Timber Summit as one of his first acts to stimulate the economy. Promises unkept
Today, in a town that was literally built on forest products, the major industry is the building of state offices for the purpose of giving unemployed mexicans money
1 win out of what 800?
Let’s save the snial darter or some other such B.S.
Scalia’s dissent is absolutely scathing in its criticism of the government. He knew that his vote wasn’t necessary to the outcome of the case, so he took the opportunity to point out how absurd the Court’s practice of giving defference to an administrative agency’s interpretation of its own authority is.
I’d bet you’re right, that would explain it.
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I left Jacksonville 1.5 years ago. I know of which you speak.
will wonders never cease?
Nonsense. I put in logging roads twenty years ago or better. Properly ditching and culvert installation was paramount, not only to Fed, State, and private owners, but was inherently important to the road builder. Roads are expensive to maintain or reinstall, so care was taken to preserve the road, with the expectation that it would be used for access again in the future.
Once the road settles in, there is very little runoff, because the drainage works to preserve the road.
But now that logging is non-existent, those roads are no longer passable. The machinery once owned by the loggers and road-builders that used to be employed on those roads to fight fire is gone too. You want to see runoff problems? See what a quarter-million acres of burnt forest produces.
Alongside of that, your position is cry-baby BS.
...reversed a federal appeals court ruling that held that muddy water running off roads used in industrial logging is the same as any other industrial pollution, requiring a Clean Water Act permit from the Environmental Protection Agency.
Ah yes, the famous Spotted Owl. Smoked over an open flame it tastes almost as good as a Bald Eagle.
The timber industry has come a long way over the past decades for which they have been given very little credit. Growing up in Southern Oregon I used to go into the woods near my home and find red clay logging roads that had become ditches with sides taller than I was. And the mills would empty their log ponds into the creek and it would turn black for weeks. The Environazis will never be happy until timber industry is dead! And what gets me is those groups are funded by contributions from idiots that have never, now will ever, set foot in the State.
I’ve seen whole mountain sides come down into the river because of logging. Perhaps it wasn’t the roads. See Deer Creek, North Fork of the Stillaguamish.