Gun Talk Radio 3/31/13

Honestly good stuff, wipe down my firearms with the chamois soaked in the product before I put em in the safe.

When stationed at Fairbanks in extreme cold I degreased my firearms 100%. Then with all laid out on a clean surface used a small spray bottle filled with lighter fluid to lube all internals. After the lighter fluid evaporated the weapons were put back together and then the externals were wiped down with the rusteprufe chamois ....

A blued SW Mod 29 I was issued for my survival vest never rusted, never froze up ..... Same with a Old Model 12 Winchester Riot Gun loaded with slugs. Very reliable when super cold steel was carried in and out of warm structures and potential for condensation to develop and freeze up mechanicals.

I do want to try this new frog lube before I croak .....:o)

Heard good things about it .

Check the Del-Ton and Rock River websites for lower parts kits. They appear to be in stock. I have the RR and had no problems with it. All you need to assemble is punch kit and basic tools. (Maybe a long hex wrench for the pistol grip.)

With this ammo shortage going on, we may need to get creative.

Eeezox is a great “Light” lube.
I dries to the touch and still provides prestion

Is it ethanol free?

LOL, Why?

prestion?

Because the one internet gripe I saw was that it smelled like gooch.

That doesn’t bother me, hell, that could be a feature, but the notion makes me chuckle.

Some folks swear by Dextron II transmission fluid.

FWIW Dexron II went out of production in 1993.

By Ed Harris Rev. 12-27-94

Three years ago I mixed my first “Ed’s Red” and I still think the “recipe” is a great idea. If you have never tried it, or maybe lost the recipe, I urge you save this and mix your own. My followers on the FIREARMS Echo think it’s the best thing since smokeless powder! Therefore, I’ll summarize the story again for the passing parade that didn’t get it the first time...

I originally did this because I used a lot of rifle bore cleaner and was deterred by the high price of commercial products. I knew there was no technical reason why you could not mix an effective bore cleaner using common hardware store ingredients which would be inexpensive, effective, and provide reasonable corrosion protection and adequate lubrication.

The “recipe” is based on proven principles and incorporates two polar and two nonpolar ingredients. It is adapted from a formula in Hatcher’s Notebook, Frankford Arsenal Cleaner No.18, but substituting equivalent modern materials. I had the help of an organic chemist in doing this and we knew there would be no “surprises” The original Hatcher recipe called for equal parts of acetone, turpentine, Pratts Astral Oil and sperm oil, and optionally 200 grams of lanolin added per liter.

Pratts Astral oil was nothing more than acid free, deodorized kerosene. We use K-1 kerosene of the type normally sold for indoor space heaters. An inexpensive, effective substitute for sperm oil is Dexron (II, IIe or III) automatic transmission fluid. Prior to about 1950 that most ATF’s were sperm oil based, but during WWII a synthetic was developed for use in precision instruments. With the great demand for automatic transmission autos after WWII, sperm oil was no longer practical to produce ATF in the quantity demanded, so the synthetic material became the basis for the Dexron fluids we know today. The additives in ATFs which include organometallic antioxidants and surfactants, make it highly suitable for our intended purpose.

Hatcher’s original formula used gum spirits of turpentine, but turpentine is expensive and highly flammable. Cheaper and safer is aliphatic mineral spirits, which is a petroleum based “safety solvent” used for thinning oil based paints and as automotive parts cleaner. It is commonly sold under the names “odorless mineral spirits,” “Stoddard Solvent” or “Varsol”.

There isn’t anything in Ed’s Red which will chemically remove copper fouling, but it does a better job on carbon residue than anything out there. Several users have told me, that with exclusive use of “ER” does reduce the buildup of copper fouling, because it removes old impacted fouling which is left by other cleaners, reducing the adhesion of abraded metal to the surface, and leaving a cleaner surface which reduces subsequent fouling. It appears that “ER” will actually remove metal fouling it if you let it “soak” so the surfactants will do the job, though you may have to be patient.

The lanolin is optional. The cleaner works quite well without it. Incorporating the lanolin makes the cleaner easier on the hands, and provides better residual lubrication and corrosion protection if you use the cleaner as a protectant for long term storage. If you want to minimize cost, you can leave the lanolin out and save about $8 per gallon. Mix some yourself. I know it will work as well for you as it does for me.

CONTENTS: Ed’s Red Bore Cleaner

1 part Dexron II, IIe or III ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.

1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1

1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits, Fed. Spec. TT-T-2981F, CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute “Stoddard Solvent”, CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent, (aka “Varsol”)

1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.

(Optional up to 1 lb. of Lanolin, Anhydrous, USP per gallon, OK to substitute Lanolin, Modified, Topical Lubricant, from the drug store)

MIXING INSTRUCTIONS:

Mix outdoors, in good ventilation. Use a clean 1 gallon metal, chemical-resistant, heavy gage PET or PVC plastic container. NFPA approved plastic gasoline storage containers are also OK. Do NOT use HDPE, which is breathable because the acetone will evaporate. The acetone in ER will attack HDPE in about 6 months, making a heck of a mess!

Add the ATF first. Use the empty container to measure the other components, so that it is thoroughly rinsed. If you incorporate the lanolin into the mixture, melt this carefully in a double boiler, taking precautions against fire. Pour the melted lanolin it into a larger container, rinsing the lanolin container with the bore cleaner mix, and stirring until it is all dissolved.

I recommend diverting a small quantity, up to 4 ozs. per quart of the 50-50 ATF/kerosene mix for use as an “ER-compatible” gun oil. This can be done without impairing the effectiveness of the mix.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR USING

Ed’s Red Bore Cleaner:

1. Open the firearm action and ensure the bore is clear. Cleaning is most effective when done while the barrel is still warm to the touch from firing. Saturate a cotton patch with bore cleaner, wrap or impale on jag and push it through the bore from breech to muzzle. The patch should be a snug fit. Let the first patch fall off and do not pull it back into the bore.

2. Wet a second patch, and similarly start it into the bore from the breech, this time scrubbing from the throat area forward in 4-5” strokes and gradually advancing until the patch emerges out the muzzle. Waiting approximately 1 minute to let the bore cleaner soak will improve its action.

3. For pitted, heavily carbon-fouled “rattle battle” guns, leaded revolvers or neglected bores a bronze brush wet with bore cleaner may be used to remove stubborn deposits. This is unnecessary for smooth, target-grade barrels in routine use.

4. Use a final wet patch pushed straight through the bore to flush out loosened residue dissolved by Ed’s Red. Let the patch fall off the jag without pulling it back into the bore. If you are finished firing, leaving the bore wet will protect it from rust for up to 30 days. If the lanolin is incorporated into the mixture, it will protect the firearm from rust for up to two years. For longer term storage I recommend use of Lee Liquid Alox as a Cosmolene substitute. “ER” will readily remove hardened Alox or Cosmolene.

5. Wipe spilled Ed’s Red from exterior surfaces before storing the gun. While Ed’s Red is harmless to blue and nickel finishes, the acetone it contains is harmful to most wood finishes).

6. Before firing again, push two dry patches through the bore and dry the chamber, using a patch wrapped around a suitably sized brush or jag. First shot point of impact usually will not be disturbed by Ed’s Red if the bore is cleaned as described.

7. I have determined to my satisfaction that when Ed’s Red is used exclusively and thoroughly, that hot water cleaning is unnecessary after use of Pyrodex or military chlorate primers. However, if bores are not wiped between shots and shots and are heavily caked from black powder fouling, hot water cleaning is recommended first to break up heavy fouling deposits. Water cleaning should be followed by a thorough flush with Ed’s Red to prevent after-rusting which could result from residual moisture. It is ALWAYS good practice to clean TWICE, TWO DAYS APART whenever using chlorate primed ammunition, just to make sure you get all the residue out.

LABEL AND OBLIGATORY SAFETY WARNINGS:

RIFLE BORE CLEANER

CAUTION:

HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED.

KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN

1.Flammable mixture. Keep away from heat, sparks or flame.

2.FIRST AID, If swallowed DO NOT induce vomiting, call physician immediately. In case of eye contact immediately flush thoroughly with water and call a physician. For skin contact wash thoroughly.

3.Use with adequate ventilation. Avoid breathing vapors or spray mist. It is a violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent with its labelling. Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage. If using in closed armory vaults lacking forced air ventilation wear respiratory protection meeting NIOSH TC23C or equivalent. Keep container tightly closed when not in use.

This “Recipe” is placed in the public domain, and may be freely distributed provided that it is done so in its entirely with all instructions and safety warnings included herein, and that proper attribution is given to the author.

In Home Mix We Trust, Regards, Ed

That optic sure makes for a scary looking setup.

Hmmmm....

So what does gooch smell like?

Here’s descriptors of the historical versions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEXRON#Dexron-II

Hey guys. Anybody with first hand experience on this, please jump in. Your input is valued.

My almost 65 year old eyes are having more trouble with notch and post sights. Out to about 100 yds I'm OK, but the 200 yd CMP matches accentuate the fuzziness. I've been wondering about these Mojo sights for my Mosin-Nagant. Any pro vs con info? Rear only? Front and rear? Anything?

What is gooch?

Thanks for that empirical and historic data.

pinocha.

Got Dexron in my blood, LOL.
Worked on auto trannies for 25 yrs.

~~Come on in and shoot the breeze~~

Come on in and shoot the breeze