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DHS Explains Plans To Buy 1.6B Rounds Of Ammo: We're Buying in Bulk to 'Significantly Lower Costs'
cnsnews.com ^ | 4-2-2013 | Gregory Gwyn-Williams

Posted on 04/02/2013 4:03:00 PM PDT by plain talk

The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has responded to a letter dated November 13, 2012 from Senator Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) regarding the agency's ammunition purchases. Sen. Coburn published the response on the U.S. Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs website yesterday, April 1, 2013.

The response, dated February 4, 2013, says that DHS buys ammunition in bulk to "significantly lower costs."

(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: airball0bama; ammo; ammunition; armory; baldfacedlie; banglist; bhofascism; bloodofdhs; bloodoftyrants; bravosierra; bs; civilwar2; civilwarii; cwii; cwiiping; democrats; dhsammo; dhsisajoke; donutwatch; fastandfurious; fraud; governmentspending; govtabuse; guncontrol; homelandsecurity; hording; liberalfascism; militarizedpolice; nhs; obama; obamalegacy; obamascandals; policestate; secondamendment; socialistdemocrats; taxdollarsatwork; transparency; tyranny; waroncitizens; waronliberty; wewilltakeyourammo; youlie; youpayforthis
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To: plain talk
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141 posted on 04/03/2013 8:09:06 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Buffalo Head
"The U.S. is not a signatory on the Hague Conventions so is not bound by the limitations on ammunition, even though we generally follow the rules. More importantly, The Hague Conventions only apply to warfare between countries, not when fighting non-uniformed terrorists or Civil wars."

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that we are not a signatory. However, I do know that FMJ is a better choice against those who care to drag their wounded comrades off the battlefield. Not so certain that works with Islamist fighters. Any ME combat infantry here want to elaborate on that?

142 posted on 04/03/2013 8:11:15 AM PDT by A Navy Vet (An Oath is Forever)
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To: plain talk
1.6B Rounds Of Ammo? wow that's a lot!
143 posted on 04/03/2013 8:16:47 AM PDT by Drawn7979
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To: Jonty30

Read this incredible story posted on FR a while back. Throughout history, there have been poorly equipped armies that emerge as victors. Revolutionary war vs Britain comes to mind.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2312894/posts


144 posted on 04/03/2013 8:20:32 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
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To: Strategerist

What I can’t understand in your posts is how you dismiss all of this as a “non-story.” The fact remains that the ammo is gone. You assume that because the DHS is not actually purchasing the billions of rounds and panic buying has been the unintended result, that there is nothing to see here. This is not some Alex Jones conspiracy I am suggesting; as I said in a previous post: Panic buying of ammo still depletes the ammo supply, regardless of the true cause of that panic. That in and of itself is a huge matter.


145 posted on 04/03/2013 8:28:26 AM PDT by JGT
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To: Jonty30

We know many cops will, and they live in the same areas they patrol.

Take troops from Texas to Ohio and they will have little problem following orders.


146 posted on 04/03/2013 8:31:32 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Marine Inspector

So do I.

Mainly because I reload, buy in bulk, and don’t want to have a mixture of bullet types and loads to worry about.


147 posted on 04/03/2013 8:44:12 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: plain talk
Cheaper Than Dirt has PMC plain vanilla 124 grain jhp 9mm ammo. $89.19 for 20 rounds. $4.46 a bullet. A year ago this round would have cost around .50 a round. I’d say their plan is working.

www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/AMM-4261

148 posted on 04/03/2013 8:46:49 AM PDT by CodeJockey
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To: A Navy Vet

FMJ will also go through barriers better than HP or expanding bullets.

In other words, if you want to get the guy behind the door, sand bag, etc, FMJ is a better choice.


149 posted on 04/03/2013 8:47:28 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Jonty30

Read this story posted on FR a while back.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/2312894/posts


150 posted on 04/03/2013 8:48:13 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
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To: sergeantdave

“...ChiComm apes ....”

Tsk, tsk...Now, now Sarge...they’re our “friends” now, remember?

We have to be all Mao-y politically correct.

They’re “COMRADE ChiComm” now.


151 posted on 04/03/2013 8:51:51 AM PDT by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: plain talk
The response, dated February 4, 2013, says that DHS buys ammunition in bulk to "significantly lower costs."

Okay to lower costs but why hollow-points and why non-military calibers? Hmmm?

Earth-to-Janet: We read you loud and clear. You are not kidding anybody.

152 posted on 04/03/2013 9:34:06 AM PDT by Rapscallion (The people sense what Obama, Holder, and Napolitano have in store for America.)
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To: plain talk

Bull$h!t!


153 posted on 04/03/2013 10:21:31 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Pi$$ed off yet?)
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To: A Navy Vet
"....I do know that FMJ is a better choice against those who care to drag their wounded comrades off the battlefield."

Better choice for whom? Again, you should be much more careful about repeating the foolishness uttered by low information folks.

The prime consideration when defending yourself from a deadly threat is to incapacitate the villain as quickly and certainly as possible. The wound inflicted from an FMJ bullet bullet may not incapacitate the aggressor quickly enough to prevent him from administering a hollow point bullet to you before he collapses. Yeah, his buddies can then drag him off for medical treatment while the coroner writes his report on you.

154 posted on 04/03/2013 10:22:30 AM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: a fool in paradise

It would be $75 a shirt from Brooks Brothers.


155 posted on 04/03/2013 11:29:26 AM PDT by wastedyears (I'm a gamer not because I choose to have no life, but because I choose to have many.)
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To: plain talk; All
The majority of posts on this thread epitomize the very worst aspect of the internet and various forums such as Free Republic. Unfounded and outlandish rumors have been concocted, repeated and amplified over and over again until a certain amount of creditability is established, even for otherwise sane and reasonable people. It is a classic example of the "Big Lie".

The situation is running an eerie parallel to the Y2K and Anthropogenic Global Warming hoaxes. Advocates have adopted the unsubstantiated beliefs from ignorant folks and/or charlatans into a faith based religion. Any information that seems to bolster their beliefs is coveted while contrary data is rejected with anger. It is not possible to deal rationally with such people. They believe what they want to believe and nothing else. Period.

A few posters here do genuinely understand the situation, are proficient in mathematics and have tried valiantly to educate the rest of you, only to be ridiculed by the True Believers. See posts #37, #71, #75, #80, #101, #126, #132 & #136 for sound information on the subject. Freeper "Strategerist" has a particularly good understanding of the situation.

Relative to the Hollow Point versus FMJ bullet controversy, there is very little difference between the manufacturing cost and large scale contractual pricing of ammunition loaded with those types of bullets. The difference in "Premium" ammunition pricing versus FMJ promotional product pricing on the commercial market cannot be used to make assumptions about pricing for competitively bid government contracts. Unlike the commercial market, most of the hollow point bulleted ammunition purchased by the government does not incorporate nickel-plated shellcases, to save money. Yes, they have budgets, just like you.

A few posters did point out that many of the government agencies are required to practice with the same ammunition that they use for duty. And for good reason. Legal liability is one, coupled with the need to verify proper gun functioning with street ammo, the same recoil, the same sight settings, the same muzzle flash, the same muzzle blast, the same trajectory, the same point of impact, the same accuracy, etceteras.

The truth shall set you free. Most of you at least. Some here just don't seem to be able to handle the truth.

156 posted on 04/03/2013 12:02:06 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Oberon
"Part of the federal licensing requirements for munitions factories is that federal contracts take first priority in order fulfillment."

Partially true but misleading. Federal licensing for ammunition manufacturing does not address the subject of allocating manufacturing resources. A specific contract for ammunition supply to the government does require a precedence to complete that contract as required.

157 posted on 04/03/2013 12:16:17 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Mr. K
"Then when real gun owners noted that you practice with chaep (sic) wad-cutters and not expensive hollow-point...."

Under which rock have you been hiding old timer? The use of wad cutter bullets for cheap target practice died with the death of .38 Special revolvers for police use several decades ago.

Most law enforcement agencies transitioned to 9mm Luger in the 1980's and have since mostly upgraded to the .40 S&W cartridge now. Wad cutter bullet loadings for both are non existent.

Enhanced performance jacketed, hollow-point, bullets now rule the roost. Metallic lead bullets are appropriate for muzzle loaders and black powder guns.

158 posted on 04/03/2013 12:26:45 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Buffalo Head

Ok, I tried twice with Stratergist and he/she would not answer so now I will ask you. Where is the ammo? Forget whether or not a billion plus rounds may or may not have been bought by DHS. I’m sure you would conclude that it is due to panic buying(?) The fact that people believe there to be a problem and act on that belief makes it a “real” issue. We are now into the 4th month of the largest ammo shortage I have seen in over 40 years. I am baffled by people who aren’t at somewhat concerned about this. Should we feel better about the lack of ammo because you have assured us it is not due to DHS purchases?


159 posted on 04/03/2013 12:54:59 PM PDT by JGT
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To: plain talk
DHS buys ammunition in bulk to "significantly lower supplies costs."

The amount of ammo that DHS is purchasing (or rather, placed orders for, since they are NOT receiving the ammo in a bulk shipment) is driving the prices of ammo for them, and for citizens, HIGHER, not lower. Their "reasoning" is a lie.

160 posted on 04/03/2013 1:20:27 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier who has survived 24 months of Combat deployment.)
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