Posted on 04/18/2013 1:43:27 AM PDT by Olog-hai
Adam and Eve had a Leader; they disobeyed Him.
GOD never compelled us to bow down to satan... and no doubt satan reigns this world today. obama is evil... therefore I must stand against that evil as millions of us are doing. I will resist Tyranny when it threatens my GOD given rights... and my rights and your rights flow from GOD. To NOT defend those rights is a sin. I will face CHRIST with you one day... I have no fear in my heart. I am but HIS tool and I love HIM and the FATHER.
LLS
I would too.
That’s certainly true.
The poster to whom I posed my original question asserted that we must obey human “leaders”.
If we need human “leaders”, why wasn’t one waiting for Adam and Eve outside the Garden of Eden?
Cue up “Tears of a Clown.”
He did. HIMSELF. They rejected him.
Let's read the scriptures God DID write and discuss how they apply.
Anyone can ask a what if question. My dad used to say (when I would ask why or what): What if a frog had wings? Then he wouldn't bump his butt on the ground everytime he hopped.
It's pretty simple. People either believe the Bible and follow it...or they say they do and don't...or they believe some parts or none at all. I have lot less problem with people who don't believe the Bible is the Word of God and act accordingly than I do with hypocrites who claim the Bible as the supeme authority for faith and practice...and then ignore the stuff that makes them uncomfortable.
We all would, but the entire Congress and the Supreme Court are looking the other way at his fraudulent Presidency.
Not one dissenting voice among them Not one willing to get in touch with Joe Arapaio.
First off, MANY of our founding fathers are in fact in hell. Not becuase they disobeyed God's word regarding authority...but because they disregarded the all sufficient sacrifice of Christ on the Cross. Many were not followers of Christ, placing their faith in Him to save them from their sins. THAT is what landed them in hell.
Second, Germany and Japan were NOT our leaders appointed over us. Again, if you will read the scriptures and read them in context...you will see this is so. Paul is talking about those appointed over you. Hitler was never my grandfathers appointed leader.
And your Obama analogy fails the test of scripture...and it fails the test of how the early church responded to what they were taught by the apostles and scripture. Of course you do not bow down. But did Nero threaten Paul's God given rights? Did Marcus Aurelius threaten the God given rights of Polycarp? Or Justin Martyr? Sure did. How did they react to this threat? Certainly not the way you are suggesting. That leads to one question: Who was right? You or them? Was Judas right all olong for wanting Jesus to be KING? Right then? Should Jesus have overthrown the Roman Rule since the Romans were suppressing the God given rights of God's own people? He said render unto Ceaser the things that are his. Should Paul or his disciples started a rebellion against Rome since they were doing HORRIBLE things against Christians? He didn't. He said to respect them and pray for them. Was he wrong?
Bottom line is this LLS: If you can show me ONE scripture where it is OK to resist (not passive disobedience because what they want you to do violates God's law...we all know you resist to the point of giving up your life), but outright rebellion with dishonoring words and deeds) those in authority over you, I will recant.
Even King David, even though annointed King, would not raise his hand or mouth against Saul...even though Saul was a mad man bent on killing him (1 Sam 26:9).
And Proverbs says: "Do not rejoice when your ENEMY fails..." (Prov 24:17)
Let this sink in: Peter attacks Malchus (Matt 26:52) and Jesus says "all those who live by the sword will die by the sword." Later, Peter says: "Do NOT repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing (1 Peter 3:9)" He got that lesson from Christ. The lesson was a rebellious heart leads to death. Focus on eternity and for the reward you will receive for obedience.
We also do have God given rights...and by no means do I suggest we throw ourselves into martyrdom needlessly. I think a very good example of how to handle the government...especially remembering our rights...is given to us in the Book of Acts, chapters 22 - 26.
It was Paul's God given right as a Roman citizen not to be beaten...and he reminded the centurion of this in Acts 22:25. He didn't fight back. He didn't resist. But he did respectfully protect himself using the law. The centurion made a decision at that point to obey the law. Had the centurion made the decision to violate the law and flog Paul...I have no doubts Paul would have suffered the abuse with gladness.
When he was before the Council, Paul was in a bind. He used great politiking to his advantage. He turned, using truth, one faction on the other. But notice also in Acts 23:3 when he rebuked the high priest and called him a name...what he did in v 5 when he found out he was the high priest (an authority figure)...he apologized using scripture. Here was a man (the high priest) who wanted him dead...and he respected his authority.
Also notice in 23:12-22 that Paul didn't put himself in the way of martyrdom. His nephew heard of a plot to kill Paul...and Paul saw to it he (Paul) was safely removed before all those men who had taken the vow could kill him.
There is more than one way to resist evil. There is more than one way to exert your God given right's. The right way is to do it according to the will of God and the Word of God.
When JESUS sent HIS disciples out—in Luke 22—HE orders them to sell their cloaks and buy swords if they do not possess any. When JESUS sent them out the first time, HE told them to not take anything—but HE was still on earth. When HE sends them in Luke 22, this time, HE won't be physically there protecting them—therefore HE advocates for a strong self-defense.
The Bible not only advocates self-defense, but also National defense when being attacked.
JESUS’ instruction to “turn the other cheek” was a reference to a personal insult—not physical danger. In the ancient world, the ultimate insult was to slap someone open-handed with the right-hand, then back-hand them across the other cheek with the same hand. JESUS says to not retaliate in kind.
When HE said “Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword”... HE did not mean citizens who merely wish to protect their own. That refers to people who deliberately cause death and destruction—they will die violently (this can be seen in the War on Terror—the terrorists are those who live by the sword, the U.S. military are those that cause the terrorists to die by the sword—in the National defense of the USA.
Private citizens neither attack people, nor are they charged with legally upholding the law, like a police officer—the above reference to “those who live by the sword” is thus obviated.
JESUS also acted violently against the money changers in the Temple and he did not respect or become subservient the the Pharisees... to the contrary... he admonished them and attacked them as hypocrites and liars and instructed people to not follow their example... to not pray for public consumption but to pray for prayers sake and to honor GOD.
I could go on but I have a business to run and customers waiting for me. I suspect that you and I will never agree.
LLS
Are you saying God appointed Saddam Hussein to terrorize Iraq for a generation and that the US, in removing him from power, violated God’s will?
I tend to look at those in temporal power though the lens of
Rom 12:7
NASB
Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.
remember it all you like, write it down if you wish. It will not change the fact that using terms that many would find offensive can make freepers look like jerks
To put a point to it, God was their ruler as He spoke to Adam directly.
Fair enough.
Why do people need earthly rulers?
V 36 - "See, Lord, here are two swords.” “That’s enough!” he replied." That's not a strong self defense. Two of 11 (excluding Judas) is not a strong defense.
Nobody...not even I have suggested you do not have a right to self defense. But what you do not have a right to do is slander the government God appointed.
I fear you are misunderstanding me. So let m lay it out one more time...and then we can agree to disagree as Christian Brothers.
I believe in self defense and defending one's family. I beleive that is biblical. I believe in a strong National Defense. I believe in fighting for one's country...so much so I am in the military and have been for 26 years. I've got 4 more years for my 30 and I hope I have a retirement when I get there. That is also biblical.
I believe the scripture teaches us that the government we have is ordained by God...just like Saul was ordained by God to be King of Israel. I believe when you "resist" (Romans 13:2) that power ...and resist means to set yourself against...withstand...oppose...you are resiting the ordinance of God (V 3). I believe we are to submit to the establishment (ordinance) of man (1 peter 2:13) to the point it violates God's law...then we are to submit to God in love...to the point of death. Those establishment includes governors and kings...and presidents (since they are an establishment). I believe the Bible teaches we are to be extremely respectful of those rulers...even when we disagree VEHEMENTLY with what they desire...and when their desires are contrary to the will of God. The Bible teaches we are not to slander them...call them names...or rejoice when they fail. But as I pointed out earlier...we don't throw ourself into the lion's den to play the martyr. Paul didn't in Acts 22-23...and neither should we. But if the government decides it wants to persecute us...then so be it. "All who want to live godly lives in Christ Jesus will be persecuted." 2 Tim 3:12 - And that doesn't mean personal persecution only...but also at the hands of the government (see Paul and ALL the Apostles).
And I think you, as a believer, would agree this nation deserves God's wrath. We've killed 50 million kids and normalized sodomy and adultery...and promote pornography at every turn. The church is weak and made up of people who take a little religion to make them feel good but reject the harder teachings of the Gospel. Therefore...I believe God has raised up Obama...even to the point of sending a hurricane (Sandy) to get him re-elected...to be an instrument of that judgment. Why? Because we deserve it. There is something BIGGER out there. Eternity.
Be blessed.
God allowed earthly rulers, and the separation between their rule and that of Gods is made clear by Mark 12:17 “Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s”
As a Constitutional Republic, we the people are ultimately the rulers with representatives and administrators we hire, its sad that so many do not understand this simple truth.
Have a blessed day.
LLS
Thanks ... and I’ll be nice. Watch that one behind you though.
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