Whence cometh the revolution? (...compares level of despotism today to what founders faced in '76)

WND ^ | June 5, 2013 | Erik Rush

[Windflier]

What would the red line be for you?

The regime has already exceeded my tolerance level, but I think what you're asking is, what would be my 'go' signal.

I don't think I could tell you specifically what it would be, but I can say that it would likely be some sort of incident of egregious transgression against the people by the government. I mean a deliberate, violent act of heavy handed force. Something along those lines.

I personally think it'll take some type of incident of that nature to spark an uprising.

[Toespi]

But would it be an army of one? I am proud that I had twenty -three ancestors that fought in the American revolution and at the same time ashamed that I don’t possess the bravery they must have had, not to fight because I would try and I would die for my heritage, but the bravery to go to my neighbors and lead. In reading some historical information, I understand how people banned together to revolt, they lived together in small communities that formed militias, communicated and made plans. I just don’t see how this could happen today. I honestly believe if small groups began making plans for revolting against government tyranny they would be arrested and prosecuted. Interestingly, this government has reverted to the same tactics that brought on the Revolution. I don’t see patriots winning the next.

[DoughtyOne]

We would be fighting federal troops on our own soil. The military we would be fighting would have the best possible tools to take us down. The idea we could win such an insurrection is laughable.

D.O., you're a smart person. I don't know why you let your pessimism overrule your higher analytical functions over this question.

I listen to the talk today, and I look back to the Civil War and how some folks were thinking it would be a cake-walk back then too.  I'm not convinced we would fare better.  Once the fighting starts, wars take on a life of their own.  In short order they seldom look like you thought they would.  Then you're stuck.  You're in it, and nobody knows how to stop it.  Pretty soon you've forgotten exactly why you started it.  Future generations discuss what it was you were trying to accomplish, or what single reason was the cause for the break out of hostilities.

Think of the orders of magnitude we're discussing. 1.5 million armed federal troops versus 100 million armed 'insurgent' citizens.

Just remember that of that 100 million folks you think would join you, there will be a significant portion that will oppose you.  Different segments of our populace have different policy goals.  How do you organize the group that remains with you?  What communication channels do you use after week three?  What supply routes can you maintain?  What food supplies will continue to come through?  How long will the populace stay on your side, once the going gets tough?

Of course the federals have awesome force multipliers, but those weapons have to be directed by someone. Those people are Americans too, with family and friends intermingled amongst us. Do you honestly think that every single American in uniform will just blindly obey an order to suppress their fellow citizens with force?

No I don't, however I think the tools of propaganda have been pretty well developed and demonstrated.  The media can make just about anyone look like a terrorist these days.  And once you are percieved as a terrorist, members of the armed forces will simply do their jobs to eliminate the terrorists.  Some of our troops will get it.  I'm not convinced what percentage that will be.

An order to implement Martial Law will first result in an internal struggle within the military itself.

I agree.  And this being the case, I expect to see moderating voices eliminated from the military in short order.  Then you're left with the hard-case nut jobs, and others who just don't get it.  Both would combine to be rather ruthless in taking out what they percieve to be a threat against the nation, and it's "loyalists".

It'll be patriot against drone, and I fully expect the patriots to carry the day.

As much as I might agree with you, this is still conjecture.  Any contrived event at all could swing public opinion away from you overnight.  Moving munitions a large explosion takes place that kills a number of the armed forces, and the government declares it an act of terrorism.  Large portions of your allies peel off because they don't want to be a party to that sort of thing.  It would be dead wrong and excuses go, but it's what would happen.

A movie theater burns down, and 25 people are killed.  It's all blamed on the "terrorists".  Another large segment peels off.  I think you're underestimating things like this, real momentum killers.

Even if they were somehow outnumbered by loyal drones, the havoc they'd wreak on operations would be so intense, that the entire effort would be scuttled. Meanwhile, you'd have tens of millions of patriot citizens helping in every way they could, to help their fellows in the ranks.

I think the ranks would be purged in short order.  Then I think bases would be made battle ready, and it would be next to impossible to make headway.  The military wouldn't even have to expose their troops to fire.  They could use drones to take care of a lot of the battle.

Again - think it through. Don't you think the regime would have hauled us off to the gulags by now if they had the power to do so? Of course they would.

I honestly think it's easier for them to control us in place.  They don't have to ship us off.  Then they'd have to dedicate manpower and logistical supplies to house and feed us.  I don't think they would be interested in doing that.  In a lot of instances, our own neighbors would keep us in line.

Instead, they're forced to attempt their treasonous overthrow of the Constitution through skullduggery and hidden means, and the covers are being ripped off all of that as we speak.

I agree with that.  I'm still not in support of armed insurrection.  I don't want to see millions of my fellow citizens killed in the quest for a better tomorrow.  Tomorrow is always a long ways away when these things start.

What do we replace our government with?  Do we keep our founding documents or start over?

What would the demands be?

What would the end settlement have to look like?

Who would be the future leaders?

[DoughtyOne]

Okay. I support that. Just remember that you have to appeal to enough people that the majority will want what you are returning to or ushering in.

[noinfringers2]

What bothers me is the not knowing how many of our so called/designated public protectors are truely such or more like zombies following any order or edict of such like Obama and his enablers probably to keep their paychecks. I believe with the information out now that there will be many so called public protectors who will prefer a paycheck to ‘securing the blessings of liberty’.

[Biggirl]

Said it better than me.

[Biggirl]

Listening to Mark Levin right now who is challenging his listeners to take America back.

[Windflier]

Well friend, that was an impenetrable wall of pessimism and denial of simple logic you just posted to me. I’m sorry that I can’t help you see it any differently.

Frankly, if you feel so certain of such a gloomy forecast, why do you continue to torture yourself by participating here? If you’ve fully accepted that ‘nothing can be done about it’, and that ‘all is lost’, why not just pack it all in and vanish to some other country?

Again - if the traitorous cabal who’ve seized control over our government felt that they had the power to physically overwhelm us, they would have already done it - such is their abject hatred for us and everything we stand for. That they haven’t, is proof positive that the odds of success in such a contest lie with the people.

We patriots and traditionalist Americans are an ever present impediment to their utopian agenda. Like all good enemies of liberty, they’d just as soon mow us down, than have to deal with us. Unfortunately for them, we’re too numerous and resolute to crush through means of sheer force.

[Biggirl]

Been reading a few posts and they sure sound like they are full pf pessimism.

[Windflier]

Been reading a few posts and they sure sound like they are full pf pessimism.

It's rampant around here - even more than in other conservative venues I've visited recently. Much more so.

In fact, it's become a virtual plague that no one is doing a thing to quarantine. I think the infection is spreading, though a certain percentage of Freepers seem to be immune to it.

[Windflier]

Tell you another thing....when I visit the occasional ‘other’ conservative venue, it’s sometimes refreshing how little pessimism and lack of demoralization is present.

People out there are fighting mad, and not backing down. I don’t know what’s gotten into the water around here.

[Biggirl]

So much so that it could drive possible new folks away is what I am concerned about.

[Biggirl]

Thank-you for making my night with those words.

[XenaLee]

We Americans have had it too good for too long. Most of us have never had to lift a finger to defend our own lives or freedoms. Someone else always stepped up and volunteered to do it for us.

We’ve lived in relative safety and if not in luxury, damned close to it, compared to other nations. Maybe it’s time we faced the reality that nothing worth having is free or easy to acquire, much less to keep. And freedom is the only thing worth dying for at this point. Decision time.

So...I’ll ask again. Is it pitchfork time YET?

[Windflier]

Thank-you for making my night with those words.

You're welcome. You're one of the resolute!

[DoughtyOne]

Well friend, that was an impenetrable wall of pessimism and denial of simple logic you just posted to me. I’m sorry that I can’t help you see it any differently.

Okay, I understand where you're coming from.  I'm sorry you see it that way, but I'm not going to give you grief over it.

Frankly, if you feel so certain of such a gloomy forecast, why do you continue to torture yourself by participating here? If you’ve fully accepted that ‘nothing can be done about it’, and that ‘all is lost’, why not just pack it all in and vanish to some other country?

I want you to think about this long and hard.  You have come to the conclusion that 100 million people would arm up and join you in the process you envision.  None the less, we both know we can't get one million people back to the mall in Washington, D. C.  Is it your contention that simply showing up at the mall is too much to ask, but arming up and walking into the street to participate in a firefight would be 100 to 200 times easier?  I remain unconvinced you wouldn't be out there by yourself.

If perhaps we had gotten ten million back to the mall, and made our presence and desires known, I would see something else as a last resort.  Until such a time as you can get 10 to 20 million back to D. C., I don't think the collective is ready for what you envision.  And if you could get 10 to 20 million back there, it would send such a message that our leaders would be wetting themselves in fear of not complying with our wishes fast enough.

Again - if the traitorous cabal who’ve seized control over our government felt that they had the power to physically overwhelm us, they would have already done it - such is their abject hatred for us and everything we stand for. That they haven’t, is proof positive that the odds of success in such a contest lie with the people.

Okay.  I accept that's how you see it.  I see it as proof positive that they understand that the people are too docile to get up off their duffs and protest what they are doing.  If we could get a massive group out even locally across this nation, I think it could make a difference.  We don't, so it won't.

We patriots and traditionalist Americans are an ever present impediment to their utopian agenda. Like all good enemies of liberty, they’d just as soon mow us down, than have to deal with us. Unfortunately for them, we’re too numerous and resolute to crush through means of sheer force.

I just don't think we gather to magnify our voice, as loud as we could.  It's kind of a big joke.  We talk a big game, and when the call is made to gather and demand change, folks are too busy to be bothered.

Just try getting people out on the street.  Perhaps you have.  I found it a real eye-opener.  I have thought we had allies all over, but when the call goes out, it's tough to get more than ten of our own to show up.

D. C. chapter does as good as anyone.  I'm not sure how many they're getting out these days, but Conservatism should draw thousands where it only draws tens.  It's a big disappointment.

Thanks for the discussion.

[Biggirl]

Thank-you once again for the good word.

[XenaLee]

Correct. But he would also be devious enough to make it LOOK like one of us on the right started it. (See: Jericho tv series)

[Windflier]

we can't get one million people back to the mall in Washington, D. C. Is it your contention that simply showing up at the mall is too much to ask, but arming up and walking into the street to participate in a firefight would be 100 to 200 times easier?

Brother, you are simply not fully processing this question.

The American people aren't going to revolt unless pushed very hard to do so. We're at a place right now that can be characterized as volatile. The people are just barely containing themselves. All it will take to release megatons of pent up anger and fury, is an incident that truly crosses the line in most people's minds.

The majority will have to actually perceive such an incident as a game changing threat to their very survival. With both sides in such a state of high anxiety, who knows when such an incident will happen?

As far as getting millions of people to turn out for rallies in parks and so-forth, I think that many have concluded that Washington ignored us, and that nothing but a doomsday response will get their attention. Dunno, but that's what I perceive.

I know that I'm not personally interested in attending any more flag waving parties. That moment has passed. If we're to assemble in large numbers again, it'll have to be for the purpose of engaging in mass acts of civil disobedience. It's effective, and it's the last step before the last resort.

[DoughtyOne]

 We can't get one million people back to the mall in Washington, D. C. Is it your contention that simply showing up at the mall is too much to ask, but arming up and walking into the street to participate in a firefight would be 100 to 200 times easier?

Brother, you are simply not fully processing this question.  Okay.

The American people aren't going to revolt unless pushed very hard to do so. We're at a place right now that can be characterized as volatile. The people are just barely containing themselves. All it will take to release megatons of pent up anger and fury, is an incident that truly crosses the line in most people's minds.  IMO, you're way overplaying your cards here.  I don't know anyone who is this upset.  They don't like some of the things going on, but after reading your posts, I realize they are nowhere near as ready for the things you say you are.

The majority will have to actually perceive such an incident as a game changing threat to their very survival. With both sides in such a state of high anxiety, who knows when such an incident will happen?  Well, I'm not seeing it.  I'm not seeing people in a high state of anxiety.  Again, nobody I now is primed for some sort of insurrection.

As far as getting millions of people to turn out for rallies in parks and so-forth, I think that many have concluded that Washington ignored us, and that nothing but a doomsday response will get their attention. Dunno, but that's what I perceive.  Well I don't think that view is baseless, but I still don't think a massive ralley in Washington, D. C. has been tried, so we can't say it would have no effect.  We don't know that.

I know that I'm not personally interested in attending any more flag waving parties. That moment has passed.  Our protests are simply flag waving parties?  Really?

If we're to assemble in large numbers again, it'll have to be for the purpose of engaging in mass acts of civil disobedience.  Absolutely NOT!  Good grief, you want to go out and riot?  Do you have any idea what a bulls-eye you paint on your forehead by saying something like that?  Such comments are why some folks think Tea Party people are terrorists.  Just who are you hoping to help with those sorts of comments?  It sure isn't the Conservative movement.  The Conservative movement is a Law and Order movement.  It is not a civil disobedience movement at all.  It never was, and it never will be.  Once you join in civil disobedience, you've just swaped Conservatism for the Leftist mantle, the Anarchists, the A.N.S.W.E.R. clowns.  Their tactics are what you want to use to further your cause?  Seriously?

It's effective, and it's the last step before the last resort. Good grief, why don't you just save businesses, the public, and public officials the time and damages and go turn yourself in?  You're here telegraphing what you've got up your sleeve.  The result will be a lot of folks taken into custody, a lot of damage, and a lot of discrediting of the Conservative movement.

Don't do that in our name.  Thanks in advance.