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Sunday Morning Talk Show Thread 9 June 2013
Various driveby media television networks ^ | 9 June 2013 | Various Self-Serving Politicians and Big Media Screaming Faces

Posted on 06/09/2013 4:50:27 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!

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To: Bernard

It occurs to me that the only reason the IRS scandal is in a scandal in the first place is because legislation started with good intentions decided that our government would use tax status as a controlling factor in free speech.
As a result, the federal government agency (IRS) that is supposed to be full of eye-shade bean counters and responsible for collecting revenue and enforcing the rules related to revenue and income taxation is now the “GateKeeper to the First Amendment”.

Left to it’s own devices, the IRS should be focusing on the most improbable task assigned to man; taking the tax legislation developed with good intentions and (usually) economic ignorance, developing forms and instructions, and distributing information that will allow citizens of this country a fighting chance of being to complete an income tax return correctly.

Instead we are adding the task of administering Health Care rules to the “Freedom of Speech” duties this agency has to accomplish. And, oh, by the way, try to collect enough taxes to keep the country out of bankruptcy. Or at least far enough out of BK that Ben Bernake can continue to print cash in large bills and we can pretend that this is working.


I get what you’re saying, appreciate your point, but I think it is arguable that there were EVER any “good intentions” in play.


61 posted on 06/09/2013 6:26:20 AM PDT by PaleoBob
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To: dirtboy
Hayden says there are no records of abuse.

LOL--that's because the records of abuse are destroyed. But we aren't smart enough to figure that out.

62 posted on 06/09/2013 6:26:27 AM PDT by NautiNurse (Now we all have Obama phones.)
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To: Girlene
there are limited number of people that have access to the information (oh, well, now I’m relievied...not)

Does the name Bradley Manning ring a bell, there DiFi???

63 posted on 06/09/2013 6:29:27 AM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,)
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To: dirtboy

Hayden pulled it out of his arse too. Says there has to be a specific reason to access the database that is terrorist-related. Hayden says you have to identify who the bad guys are. He neglects that the current Admin considers conservatives to be the bad guys. Hence the door opens for abuse. Duh.


This argument is available to anyone who wants to defend data mining—that only when relevant info is extracted from the big DB does the 4th amendment clock start ticking.

By the same argument, you could search every house in America looking for one suspected criminal and remain within the framework of the 4th.

And (full disclosure) I ain’t no libertarian. A rule of “hot pursuit” should be preserved but expanding it to include every phone call and every email is Ceaucescu-like.

Real scary.


64 posted on 06/09/2013 6:31:10 AM PDT by PaleoBob
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To: NautiNurse
Yep, and the whistleblower who broke PRISM. The DOJ is going after him with both barrels. To try and discourage whistleblowers in other areas such as this database from doing the same.

The one good thing about all this is that only the most die-hard Obamatons can pretend that we have not had a point all along about this guy.

65 posted on 06/09/2013 6:31:30 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy

Hayden came off as an idiot. Why would anyone believe this regime wouldn’t use these records the same way they did in the IRS.

When they put the Tea Party on the terrorist list it gave them the ability to mine that database to see if anyone was talking to suspected Tea Party leaders.

Why didn’t they pick up the calls from the Boston Bombers?


66 posted on 06/09/2013 6:31:30 AM PDT by bray (Stop tolerating beheading!)
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To: NautiNurse
Feinstein is scolding us for not understanding the nuances of intelligence. Ain't that ironic!

lol, yes. She's trying to make us feel guilty....they're just trying to take care of us and prevent another 911. Sorry, Diane, citizens are doing the stopping most of the time.
67 posted on 06/09/2013 6:31:34 AM PDT by Girlene
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To: bray
Rand Paul just brought up the arms deal between Libya and Syria through Turkey was the reason for Benghazi. He also said it was illegal.

I don't have television. Did the host change the subject, or yell "Go to commercial. Go to COMMERCIAL!!!"

68 posted on 06/09/2013 6:32:10 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: Alas Babylon!; InterceptPoint
"I have always viewed Michael Hayden as a class act particularly when compared to others who have held the same positions that he has in the Intelligence Community."

"I used to work for Hayden back when he was a Colonel. I suspect if he saw me today, he’d remember me."

In Korea, I had to meet with (then) Major General Hayden in his office to brief him on some installation security issues for Yongsan Garrison. When I reported to his office I was struck by all the Pittsburgh/Steeler memorobilia (I was born and raised in the Pittsburgh area). I briefed my piece, presented a few courses of action and recommendations. He gave his guidance and asked if I had any further questions. I asked if he thought Bleier or Harris was the better running back, and we proceeded to have a nice little chat about the Steelers of yore. :-)

69 posted on 06/09/2013 6:32:12 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
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To: bray
Kristol spinning away the need for a court order.

Contrasts it to the IRS. Ignoring the fact that the IRS disregarded the law as well.

70 posted on 06/09/2013 6:35:11 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: bray

Hayden came off as an idiot. Why would anyone believe this regime wouldn’t use these records the same way they did in the IRS.

When they put the Tea Party on the terrorist list it gave them the ability to mine that database to see if anyone was talking to suspected Tea Party leaders.

Why didn’t they pick up the calls from the Boston Bombers?

Obviously, your question answers itself. Further, I don’t see any evidence that Obama’s admin cares one iota about preventing terrorism beyond the political ramifications of an attack. And now that they have politically withstoood Boston (and Benghazi) I think they have ZERO interest in preventing terrorism. They actually trade on it to no small extent.


71 posted on 06/09/2013 6:35:24 AM PDT by PaleoBob
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To: gov_bean_ counter
Does the name Bradley Manning ring a bell, there DiFi???

Bingo.

Paul Krugman is saying we're living more under an authoritarian surveillance world. Did I hear George Will defending this? Anyone? I must have, because Greta challenges him and asks why does this have to be secret? Also, the FISA court is a rubber stamp - there's only one side - no one else is questioning their request.


72 posted on 06/09/2013 6:36:19 AM PDT by Girlene
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To: bray
Thy nailed it here bray.

It is all about the assumptions made when developing the threat matrix. Which groups and what activities are considered a threat.

73 posted on 06/09/2013 6:36:38 AM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,)
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To: bray
Hayden came off as an idiot. Why would anyone believe this regime wouldn’t use these records the same way they did in the IRS.

Sort of like this: We have all these fresh new donuts, but no one is going to eat any.

So, why the donuts then?
74 posted on 06/09/2013 6:36:41 AM PDT by TomGuy (.)
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To: NautiNurse
And bug-eyes says we wanted to know everything about the Boston bombers, while not realizing the irony that we already had human intel on them and STILL did not stop the attack.

Mary Matalin was hard to understand.

75 posted on 06/09/2013 6:37:49 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: Diogenesis
I am so disgusted with these "so-called" conservatives defending and excusing what is going on in the name of security. The fact is that these technologies are the greatest threat to our security and individual liberty, not terrorism.

We are developing rapidly the tools of a police state straight out of Brave New World and 1984. All it will take is the government to turn on the switch and overnight our world will be transformed--all in the name of protecting us from ourselves. Medical records, credit card purchases, phone called, Internet activity, etc. will all be consolidated in one huge database. And supercomputers will be able to process this data to target groups and individuals. All very frightening.

Hayden is just another bureaucrat who is not concerned about individual liberties, but rather, doing a job with the best tools available. As long as we have human beings operating these systems, there will be abuse. 100% security should not be the metric used to determine what information the government should have on its citizens. The Constitution should be our safeguard--not Congress or secret courts.

76 posted on 06/09/2013 6:37:52 AM PDT by kabar
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To: bray; gov_bean_ counter

thy? Don’t know where that came from... :)


77 posted on 06/09/2013 6:38:27 AM PDT by gov_bean_ counter (Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,)
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To: Girlene

Bingo.

Paul Krugman is saying we’re living more under an authoritarian surveillance world. Did I hear George Will defending this? Anyone? I must have, because Greta challenges him and asks why does this have to be secret? Also, the FISA court is a rubber stamp - there’s only one side - no one else is questioning their request.


Over-classification is a big part of the problem. Even Bush made vaugue assertions of how effective certain programs were without providing any real evidence thet worked. Now, fuhgetaboutit. Obama will tell any lie necessary to keep us all under his wiretap thumb.


78 posted on 06/09/2013 6:38:47 AM PDT by PaleoBob
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To: bray
"Why didn’t they pick up the calls from the Boston Bombers?"

Probably because 'Islam', 'allah', and the moeties of Islamoterrorism,
just like anyone who is connected to the Chicago Mob
or the high up in the DNC,
is removed from the list ... and never followed further.

79 posted on 06/09/2013 6:39:35 AM PDT by Diogenesis
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To: Alas Babylon!

McCain on CNN.
They deserve each other.


80 posted on 06/09/2013 6:39:40 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (NRA Life Member)
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