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Judge Rules That Detroit Bankruptcy Filing Is Unconstitutional
Mediaite ^ | 07/19/2013 | Josh Feldman

Posted on 07/19/2013 2:23:28 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: SeekAndFind

Kind of a young Margot Kidder after she went nuts looks to her.


51 posted on 07/19/2013 3:00:30 PM PDT by techcor
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To: SeekAndFind

So, going broke is unconstitutional? A wave of the judicial magic wand, and the natural laws of economics are fixed. Wow!

Next up: gravity is unconstitutional.


52 posted on 07/19/2013 3:02:53 PM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: SeekAndFind

Bulldoze the city, build windmills and solar panels and the city will be flush with gazillions of dollars. Fer sure!


53 posted on 07/19/2013 3:02:54 PM PDT by Mark (Obama is more confused than a hungry baby in a topless bar)
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To: SeekAndFind

The old saying, “you can’t get blood out of a turnip”, comes to mind.


54 posted on 07/19/2013 3:03:33 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: Rusty0604

New Michigan law: “The income tax rate on public employee pensions and benefits shall be 50%”


55 posted on 07/19/2013 3:04:32 PM PDT by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: SeekAndFind
The governor lacks the power to “diminish or impair pension benefits,” according to the ruling by Ingham County Circuit Court Judge Rosemarie Aquilina.

Maybe true, but this should be argued in Bankruptcy court. No way can this judge order all debt out of bankruptcy because of one class of creditors. This is why we have bankruptcy court. The retiree can argue the retirement plans are not part of the bankruptcy, in essence, claim the highest level of creditor protection.

56 posted on 07/19/2013 3:06:36 PM PDT by 11th Commandment (http://www.thirty-thousand.org/)
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To: SeekAndFind
The fix is in, you can bet, emanating from Holder's People in the White Hut. No WAY that Holder's People will lose their handouts, or the fat-cat Public Union Pensions and Benefits will be impacted adversely.

IF Deetroit were to go bankrupt (as they have and Legally should be), the rest of the Country's taxpayers wind up paying the tab, to keep the inner-city tribal parasites basking in their glory at Whitey's expense, as always.

57 posted on 07/19/2013 3:08:11 PM PDT by traditional1 (Amerika.....Providing public housing for the Mulatto Messiah)
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To: cripplecreek
"Pretty much, yeah," the GOP governor glibly recalls.

Glibly, huh?

When you're drowning, as a result of stupidity, you best not criticize your rescuer for throwing you a bare life preserver, instead of one with 500 pounds of bricks permanently attached!

58 posted on 07/19/2013 3:08:43 PM PDT by publius911 (Look for the Union label, then buy something else.)
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To: SeekAndFind
“The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.”

If that is the basis for her decision then I support it 100%. I worked almost 35 years for my private sector employer with a guarantee that I would receive X dollars when I retire. I planned my retirement future on that guarantee. If my company were to file bankruptsy and try to terminate or reduce my guaranteed pension, that would financially destroy me. I would hope this judge were in my corner...........

59 posted on 07/19/2013 3:09:43 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (This space for rent)
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To: HChampagne

Attractive for a judge. Send her to my house, and I’ll impeach her!


60 posted on 07/19/2013 3:09:59 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: tennmountainman
The hack judge expects U.S. taxpayers to bailout bankrupt cities.

States next on the agenda. Illinois has unfunded obligations that make Detroit's look like chump change. I read that Illinois is #1 in that department, beating even the liberal California.

61 posted on 07/19/2013 3:10:31 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: SeekAndFind
?????????????????????


62 posted on 07/19/2013 3:11:30 PM PDT by moovova
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To: SeekAndFind

I wonder how much money it took to buy Rosemarie? or what Odickhead and the NSA have on her? And while I am at it FU NSA creeps.


63 posted on 07/19/2013 3:12:11 PM PDT by mongo141 (Revolution ver. 2.0, just a matter of when, not a matter of if!)
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To: SeekAndFind

She also ruled that the tide can’t come in.


64 posted on 07/19/2013 3:16:48 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: SeekAndFind
Time for Zero to ride in with buckets full of Obama stash and follow through on his pre-election promise “We will not allow Detroit to Fail” - or did he really mean “Detroit Unions”?
65 posted on 07/19/2013 3:18:47 PM PDT by Cheerio (Barry Hussein Soetoro-0bama=The Complete Destruction of American Capitalism)
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To: Rusty0604

Look at that state Constitution clause and think about what DeTocqueville warned. For whatever reason, a majority of the Michigan voters approved casting pensions in concrete.


66 posted on 07/19/2013 3:21:57 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Unindicted Co-conspirators: The Mainstream Media)
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To: cripplecreek

Union people like pensions over 401K’s, because it’s supposed to be a guaranteed payout. If bankruptcy guts the pensions, look for workers to want to bail on pensions, and have self-directed 401K plans — which will be devastating to the unions which manage pension funds and use them for political purposes.


67 posted on 07/19/2013 3:21:58 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: mykroar

“It’s cheating sir, and it’s cheating good people who work,” Aquilina told assistant state Attorney General Brian Devlin. “It’s also not honoring the [United States] president, who took [Detroit automakers] out of bankruptcy.”

A social justice judge injecting politics into a judicial ruling.


68 posted on 07/19/2013 3:22:27 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: Arm_Bears
I guess this “judge” expect the city to create money out of thin air.

Union benefits must be paid. Detroit authorities will tax the last business out of town. They will then jack up property taxes until the last homeowner walks away, and then seize the home to sell to the highest bidder. But there will be no bidders, because no one in his right mind will come to Detroit. They will auction off all moveable city property, shut down all city services, layoff all city employees (except tax collectors and a goon squad to back them up), and devote the money to pension payments. When this does not raise enough money, the goon squad will throw a barbed wire fence around the city, capture all residents who have not already fled, and harvest body parts for sale to China.

This will not end until a higher court attaches Her Excellency The Judge's personal salary and perks, and throws them into the pot.

I wonder if I should add a sarcasm tag. This may be prophetic, not sarcastic.

69 posted on 07/19/2013 3:22:38 PM PDT by sphinx
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To: SeekAndFind

This has the stench of careful orchestration.
It’s nothing but bukkake theater.


70 posted on 07/19/2013 3:24:44 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: dfwgator

“Another “Wise Latina.””

Who got her law degree out of a box of Crackerjacks! The freeking law isn’t about “dishonoring” working people or our worthless president, it’s about the fact that all the freeking money is gone!


71 posted on 07/19/2013 3:25:23 PM PDT by vette6387
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To: SeekAndFind

Fine.

Pack up and say “So long Dee-troit.”

Get as far away as possible before the big implosion.


72 posted on 07/19/2013 3:25:28 PM PDT by Iron Munro (They Old. That's Old School People. We In A New School, Our Generation)
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To: Hot Tabasco
If that is the basis for her decision then I support it 100%. I worked almost 35 years for my private sector employer with a guarantee that I would receive X dollars when I retire. I planned my retirement future on that guarantee. If my company were to file bankruptsy and try to terminate or reduce my guaranteed pension, that would financially destroy me. I would hope this judge were in my corner...........

I feel your pain, but the essence of bankruptcy is that someone, and maybe a lot of someones, with a legal entitlement to payment are not gonna get paid, because there ain't nothin' there with which to pay. Reality bites.

73 posted on 07/19/2013 3:26:02 PM PDT by sphinx
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To: SeekAndFind

Pass the popcorn.

Butter on mine, please.


74 posted on 07/19/2013 3:26:17 PM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: PapaBear3625

Michigan unions are scrambling now because they’re starting to feel the slow strangulation of the right to work law.

The teachers union in Saginaw is demanding an immediate $10 Million from the school district because their union is dying and the union owned insurer is going to be left holding the bag.


75 posted on 07/19/2013 3:27:54 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: DannyTN

I bunderstood that the pensions would be “grandfathered” in and would be payable ONLY if Detroit ever comes back financially. It also may be that the date they filed bankruptcy, anything “earned” beyond that date would be null and void.

Anyone know?


76 posted on 07/19/2013 3:28:20 PM PDT by DaveA37 (I'm for SMALLER , HONEST government)
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To: SeekAndFind
The REAL agenda here is to screw the general bond holders in favor of the public pensions. Something like this worked once before when Obama worked out that kind of a contorted deal at GM and Chrysler, and they'll do their damned best to get a repeat outcome for the public employee unions in Detroit.

However, in this case such a precedent in Detroit would be very damaging for the entire national municipal bond market and bond holders, so this fight can't be squelched as quickly and quietly as it was in the bankruptcy of the auto makers.

77 posted on 07/19/2013 3:28:25 PM PDT by JustTheTruth
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To: DannyTN

I bunderstood that the pensions would be “grandfathered” in and would be payable ONLY if Detroit ever comes back financially. It also may be that the date they filed bankruptcy, anything “earned” beyond that date would be null and void.

Anyone know?


78 posted on 07/19/2013 3:28:42 PM PDT by DaveA37 (I'm for SMALLER , HONEST government)
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To: SeekAndFind

Perhaps if Michigan started printing its own currency and paid those benefits in State scrip, why everything would be right as rain. They could even put Judge Rosemarie’s portrait on the 50 Wolverine notes.


79 posted on 07/19/2013 3:28:56 PM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: SeekAndFind

The state judge violated the automatic stay provisions of the Bankruptcy Code by purporting to issue an order. Once the bankruptcy petition is filed, the bankruptcy court has exclusive jurisdiction unless or until the stay is lifted or the bankruptcy judge dismisses the bankruptcy petition. The state judge is actually in contempt of the bankruptcy court. Her order is a nullity.


80 posted on 07/19/2013 3:30:53 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: Mouton

“I believe bankruptcy court is a federal jurisdiction:”

Correct. The judge has no authority on this issue.


81 posted on 07/19/2013 3:31:42 PM PDT by ScottfromNJ
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To: mykroar
"It's also not honoring the [United States] president, who took [Detroit automakers] out of bankruptcy."

That judge is using North Korea type talk.

82 posted on 07/19/2013 3:34:00 PM PDT by Chesterbelloc
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To: Mouton

I agree. The federal supremacy clause of the Constitution pre-empts state jurisdiction over bankruptcy filings. This is so clear that I believe this is a publicity stunt to help the judge run for some statewide elective office.


83 posted on 07/19/2013 3:41:34 PM PDT by Thud
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To: Hot Tabasco
If my company were to file bankruptcy and try to terminate or reduce my guaranteed pension, that would financially destroy me. I would hope this judge were in my corner...........

I hesitate to criticize further than this...
Your company, indeed, ALL private companies, are required by Federal law to fund retirement pay as you go, no exceptions under penalty of huge fines and jail time.
Municipalities and counties and all "public service" agencies have no such obligation demanded by law.

Absurd, ignorant, ridiculous and incorrect comparison!

I don't expect public elected officials, past and present, will be subject to heavy fines and serious jail time.

84 posted on 07/19/2013 3:42:59 PM PDT by publius911 (Look for the Union label, then buy something else.)
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To: SeekAndFind
“The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.”

What happens if they dis-incorporate the city? There would no longer be a "political subdivision" to apply the statue to.

85 posted on 07/19/2013 3:43:59 PM PDT by tacticalogic ("Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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To: Timber Rattler

I would imagine said judge will not be getting a paycheck because of the bankruptcy?

No wonder she wants to “rule” it unconstitutional.


86 posted on 07/19/2013 3:46:11 PM PDT by unixfox
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To: Bubba_Leroy
"The U.S. Bankruptcy Code trumps state law. It is called federal preemption, a concept most first year law students are familiar with."

It's been many years since I was a 1st year law student, and many things you learn then are later found to be untrue -- to put it mildly.

You need to Look at 11 U.S.C 109 "Who May be A Debtor". Unlike chapter 7, 13, and 11, which are generally open to anyone, a municipality may only file a Chapter 9, and then only if the laws of its state permit it. See 11 U.S.C. 109(c)(2):

[A city may file under Ch 9 if it] " is specifically authorized, in its capacity as a municipality or by name, to be a debtor under such chapter by State law, or by a governmental officer or organization empowered by State law to authorize such entity to be a debtor under such chapter....

It gets a little murky after that because I would clearly interpret this issue, that is whether the entity that signed the petition was authorized to do so, as a "core matter" over which the bankruptcy court has sole and exclusive jurisdiction under 28 U.S.C 157(b)(2)(A). Opinions on that point could vary, but that's where the argument will focus, on whether this is a core matter or not. If my opinion is correct, the state court order is a nullity, and the bankruptcy judge will have the task of determining if the filing was authorized under state law.

87 posted on 07/19/2013 3:48:52 PM PDT by PUGACHEV
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To: reg45
New Michigan law: “The income tax rate on public employee pensions and benefits shall be 50%”

That would be my solution too, although the rate may not be high enough. ANY pension shortfall can be resolved if you set the rate high enough. Maybe liberal judges will rule you can't reduce their compensation, but no liberal would rule to establish a precedent that you can't tax anything as much as government wants. John Roberts on ObamaCare provides the Supreme backstop. Invoke withholding and collect it before the pensioners get their cut. But if you really think like a lib there's an even easier way. Remember the KC, Mo. School District desegregation judge? He just imposed the taxes himself; however high he felt were needed. Invoke those cases and dare people in Detroit to call them racist.

88 posted on 07/19/2013 3:50:47 PM PDT by JohnBovenmyer (Obama been Liberal. Hope Change!)
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To: publius911
Municipalities and counties and all "public service" agencies have no such obligation demanded by law. Absurd, ignorant, ridiculous and incorrect comparison!

Ignorant" Ridiculous? sorry bro but I don't subscribe to that when it comes to any employee's financial retirement future..........

You try to take away from me what I worked my lifetime for and I'll hunt you down and burn your house down..........after I shoot you.

89 posted on 07/19/2013 3:50:49 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (This space for rent)
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To: kaehurowing

What provision of 362 did she violate? I agree with your conclusion about who has exclusive jurisdiction to decide the filing issue, but this is not a stay violation.


90 posted on 07/19/2013 3:51:04 PM PDT by PUGACHEV
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To: PapaBear3625
If bankruptcy guts the pensions, look for workers to want to bail on pensions, and have self-directed 401K plans — which will be devastating to the unions which manage pension funds and use them for political purposes.

Just Northish of Detwaa is Oakland County run by Republican L Brooks Patterson. Guess what, they have a AAA bond rating. Why? He got the Union types to go along with MSA's ( @ the time mid 90's ) and a 401a. The difference between this County and Detroit is staggering. If the Union guys went for it back then, why didn't Detwaa adopt Patterson's model.....

That is the million dollar question...

91 posted on 07/19/2013 3:52:37 PM PDT by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks.....)
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To: Hot Tabasco
You try to take away from me what I worked my lifetime for and I'll hunt you down and burn your house down..........after I shoot you.

Are you a "public employee?"
If I were, I would be right there alongside you.

92 posted on 07/19/2013 3:55:13 PM PDT by publius911 (Look for the Union label, then buy something else.)
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To: All

I know of a small town city council meeting where the treasurer reported on the bank account. She reported the cash in the account and the outstanding checks. One of the council members did not understand that the true balance was what was left after the checks clear. She kept insisting they spend money of some crap and just couldn’t understand why they were telling her there was no money. Of course, she accused the rest of the members of racism. This is what we’re up against everywhere, folks. Including congress.


93 posted on 07/19/2013 3:56:01 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican (If you vote for evil because you can't see evil, you ARE evil!)
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To: Hot Tabasco
Unfortunately, or not, depending on your point of view, bankruptcy courts can and often do re-write pension plans that would otherwise be valid under state law. U.S. Airways is one example that comes quickly to mind. In a case where the pension is cut back severely, the retiree may have to rely on the Pension Benefit Guarantee Board to make up the difference. Although the maximum entitlement under the PBGC is limited. See the PBGC tables here.
94 posted on 07/19/2013 4:02:19 PM PDT by PUGACHEV
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks SeekAndFind.


95 posted on 07/19/2013 4:03:50 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: publius911
Are you a "public employee?" If I were, I would be right there alongside you.

No I'm not, I spent my life in private industry.

It doesn't really matter if it's the public or private, you spent your entire life working for either one with a contractual guarantee of a pension. Take it away or cut it would be disasterous for the majority of people who planned their lives on their pensions.

Does that mean that I support the public sector pension and healthcare plans? Absolutely not, especially since I have funded them with my tax dollars. But it is what it is, change them going foreward but don't destroy the lives of those people who worked for what they are receiving..........

As a side note, even my own past employer changed their pension plan and healthcare structure for new employees back in the early 2000's. Pensions would be contributory and healthcare would not be offered following retirement. That became a non-issue when the plants were closed down and the corporation itself was sold off to a Canadian manufacturing group who ultimately released all associated employees.

96 posted on 07/19/2013 4:11:52 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (This space for rent)
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To: SeekAndFind

This is just part of the Judge’s reelection campaign. She knows she has no jurisdiction here.


97 posted on 07/19/2013 4:15:53 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: kaehurowing

“The state judge violated the automatic stay provisions of the Bankruptcy Code by purporting to issue an order. Once the bankruptcy petition is filed, the bankruptcy court has exclusive jurisdiction unless or until the stay is lifted or the bankruptcy judge dismisses the bankruptcy petition. The state judge is actually in contempt of the bankruptcy court. Her order is a nullity”

Bingo. BK was all ready filed and only the BK court can change things. The plaintiffs will have to state their case in BK court.

CC


98 posted on 07/19/2013 4:16:39 PM PDT by Captain Compassion
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To: PUGACHEV
In a case where the pension is cut back severely, the retiree may have to rely on the Pension Benefit Guarantee Board to make up the difference. Although the maximum entitlement under the PBGC is limited. See the PBGC tables here.

I'm completely familiar with the PBGC since I was the administrator of my company's UAW pension plan and a recipient of my company's non-contributory DB plan.

With that being said, I still stand by my statement

99 posted on 07/19/2013 4:18:35 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (This space for rent)
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To: Hot Tabasco
You try to take away from me what I worked my lifetime for and I'll hunt you down and burn your house down..........after I shoot you.

well, if you are from detroit..

1. you are screwed, however..
2. enough people get the same plan and it might improve the place quite a bit.
100 posted on 07/19/2013 4:19:20 PM PDT by wafflehouse (RE-ELECT NO ONE !)
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