Dick Cheney: Rand Paul is wrong on government surveillance

Washington Post ^ | June 16 2013 | Sean Sullivan

[firebrand]

The danger of the gathering of this metadata is that it is now an unexpungeable record of all your friends and relations—your circle of contacts. If ever you are accused of anything, justly or unjustly, they can interrogate or otherwise go after your friends and family.

That is its chilling effect on activism. They know that people may be willing to put themselves out on a limb for what they believe in, but they will not risk their loved ones. That is our Achilles’ heel, and they know it and have cleverly used it.

It is too late. We have been caught in the noose, and it was inevitable once everything became electronic. Even if the NSA procedures are changed, and I guess they won’t be anyway, we can never again be sure that the knowledge is not out there somewhere.

Sincerely,

Cassandra

[laplata]

You’re right. They’re basically all in it together. They think they’re immune to the disaster they’re bringing upon us, the unwashed masses.

[laplata]

Liz Cheney is running in WY not because she loves that state and has strong ties to it, but because it’s an easy GOP win and she’ll be a Senator for life. It’s a game to these people.

Stop play and elect the TEA Party candidates to the GOP. Let’s win.

---

Exactly!

[SgtBilko]

Hey they have a search warrant for the 320 million domestic terrorist suspects.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/19/fisa-court-approves-surveillance_n_3625610.html

[JCBontheloose]

Dick Cheney - the draft dodger know-nothing who oversaw a massive expansion of government surveillance power, who said "deficits don't matter", who created the "office of special plans" which fabricated/cherry-picked the Iraqi WMD "intel" that led to 4,400+ US dead for NOTHING.

How this vile man ever came to be admired by so many conservatives has always been a mystery to me. Thankfully more and more are waking up. Better late than never.

Many libs and a few brave conservatives spoke out against the security state back in 2001-2008 only to be shouted down as "terror supporters" and "traitors." Now that a Dem is in the WH (inheriting the same powers handed to the POTUS by Bush/Cheney) suddenly the GOP base sees the error of its ways while the outraged libs have gone strangely silent.

Hypocrites, all over the place.

[JCBontheloose]

They aren't worried about security, the Boston bombers were not stopped with all the crazy invasive 'security measures' that are in place.

Not to mention a heads-up from the Russians.

Truth is, terrorism has NEVER concerned the powers that be since it provides them with an excuse for endless wars and intrusive state powers.

If the "war on terror" were at all serious the terror-supporting Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia would have been destroyed on 9/12/01. Instead they remain our best friends - like fighting fascism in alliance with Nazi Germany.

[cherokee1]

I keep trying to go with Cheney because he does indeed know the inside dope. But he and Bush2 are also the guys who just kept Iran and the Norks in the nuke business. At some point “gathering intelligence” is just a dodge for sitting on ones hands, butt, head or whatever is comfy. The peace dividend is peace but only if you stomp the krap out of trouble makers

[SecAmndmt]

With respect to the sociopaths who run fedgov - the same people who brought us the Fast and Furious inside job (and then tried to use it to attack the 2A) - does anyone seriously believe that it is their intention to protect our lives, liberty and property? No sale.

What is that Founders quote again about those who would give up their liberty for a promise of short term security, and then end up with neither?

[USS Johnston]

The Vietnam War was not like WWII. Literally everyone was doing what they could to stay out of it. If you start condemning folks who avoided it, you won’t have many people left from that period that you can support.

You're missing the point, D1. If we can't blame Cheney for avoiding fighting at war in Nam -- and I don't don't -- why then has he been such a robust chickenhawk? Could it be his questionable conflict of interest between the military-industrial complex?

Moreover, it can be argued that Dick (CFR) Cheney was instrumental in NOT securing the US border post-9/11 as Mexicans were given a free reign to invade. We are paying the price for that legacy as well as an over-intrusive government.

[SoFloFreeper]

I guess I misspoke.....What I meant is that he seems to have attacked (or is portrayed to have attacked) a position that Rand doesn’t hold.

OTOH, DC’s position that some surveillance is useful certainly is correct.

[USS Johnston]

If the "war on terror" were at all serious the terror-supporting Wahhabis in Saudi Arabia would have been destroyed on 9/12/01. Instead they remain our best friends - like fighting fascism in alliance with Nazi Germany.

+1.

[USS Johnston]

Liz Cheney is running in WY not because she loves that state and has strong ties to it, but because it’s an easy GOP win and she’ll be a Senator for life. It’s a game to these people.

Stop play and elect the TEA Party candidates to the GOP. Let’s win.

AND keep-out the self-serving, self-anointing elites. Lizzy wants to run? Let her earn it against a liberal Dem. In a liberal Dem state. Then she might be worthy.

[indthkr]

>> What Dick Cheney said:

"Rand Paul is wrong on government surveillance."

>> What Dick Cheney actually meant:

Rand, leave my daughter alone! She's entitled by birthright to be the next senator from Wyoming!

[laplata]

Stop play and elect the TEA Party candidates to the GOP. Let’s win.

AND keep-out the self-serving, self-anointing elites. Lizzy wants to run? Let her earn it against a liberal Dem. In a liberal Dem state. Then she might be worthy.

---

Damned right!

Excellent point.

[Timber Rattler]

He’s stuck in 2002.

[DoughtyOne]

The Vietnam War was not like WWII. Literally everyone was doing what they could to stay out of it. If you start condemning folks who avoided it, you won’t have many people left from that period that you can support.

You're missing the point, D1. If we can't blame Cheney for avoiding fighting at war in Nam -- and I don't don't -- (1) why then has he been such a robust chickenhawk? (2) Could it be his questionable conflict of interest between the military-industrial complex?

1 One man's chicken-hawk, is another man's simple patriot.  There is a group that thinks we shouldn't be involved in ground wars in Asia.  There's others who think we must take some military action when our nation is attacked, otherwise you look pretty much the paper tiger.  The attack on September 11th, 2001 was of a level that I supported the ground war.  I didn't care for how it was executed in the early years, but they did turn things around in due course in Iraq, and I think that was about as much as we could hope for.  As for Afghanistan, this ass hat we have right now doesn't know which end of a gun the bullet comes out of.  It is sad our men ultimately answer to a man like that.  He and his crew don't have the slightest idea what good rules of engagement are.  They are overburdened with having to be nice to terrorists.  Obama's main objective is to homosexualize the armed services to the extent he can.  Obama seems prepared to surrender any gains we made.  It's a sad situation.  To the extent he manages to make it look like we're leaving with our tail between our legs, he will have destroyed most of the positive aspects our efforts there may have gained us.  He'll also bring over thousands of Afghanis of a questionable nature that we'll have to deal with for eternity.

2 I have mixed thoughts on the Military Industrial Complex.  Our suppliers make lots of money.  They don't always do the best job, or provide the best tools for your men.  We do need them.  I think they could be managed better.  There are going to be advocates on their behalf.  Someone will be the contact person our government has to deal with.  Cheney made a lot of money working for Haliburton.  I believe it was in the neighborhood of $20 million per year.  On the one hand we want capable people in the White House, and on the other we get upset if they make too much money because they are so qualified.  I happen to think Cheney had the most gravitas of any vice president we've ever had.  You look at guys like Carter and Obama, and it's clear he ran circles around them both.

I don't believe Cheney advocated for a ground war based on his idea that his old buddies would make lots of money if there were one.  Others may disagree.

There is also a mindset that we need to be able to launch and execute military operations every so often, in order to keep our tactics updated and sound.  I believe our armed services learned a lot from the operations on the ground during these operations.  That is a good thing.  I don't believe there is a better desert fighting nation on planet earth right now.  The terrorists took a heavy hit in Iraq and Afghanistan.  I believe we spoted thousands if not tens of thousands of potentional problematic people by being on the ground in both nations.  We will keep tabs on those people for the rest of their lives.  I don't think it will be easy to quantify all the benefits we obtained over the last eleven years.  

Moreover, (3) it can be argued that Dick (5) (CFR) Cheney was instrumental in NOT securing the US border post-9/11 as Mexicans were given a free reign to invade.  We are paying the price for that legacy (4) as well as an over-intrusive government.

3 Cheney hasn't just started doing things I haven't liked.  I thought the idea to allow Islamic Clerics to officiate at the 09/11 memorials was absolutely unforgivable.  It was as if the Tate family (victims of Charles Manson and clan), had been forced to attend services where Mom and Pop Manson and all Charlie's siblings had stood up and recited what a nice family they had, and how Charlie had been the apple of their eye for as long as he was with them.  Somewhere along the line, these clueless bastard missed the part about terrorism, and sensitivity to families.  They also got so confused, they thought decent hard working U. S. Citizens (grandmas included) were the ones who needed to be rousted at the airports.

Yes, sure, Cheney played into the open border situation too.  It's devistating what has happened to our nation at the hands of the Left in both parties.

4 Part of the Patriot Act is being gamed against us.  They ramroded through new super-powers, and those powers are being used on citizens, NOT TERRORISTS.  It's infuriating.  We shouldn't have to wonder who is listening in on our converstations.  They can put saran wrap on it and call it anything they want, it's still a s--t sandwich for U. S. Citizens.

5 I'm not a big fan of the CFR, but I don't get as worked up over them as others do.  It used to be folks were really upset that Kissinger was a puppet of the "Blank" family. (insert family name here, I'm drawing a blank at the moment).  There's the Bilderbergers, the Illuminatti, a few others. I gave up trying to keep tabs on what these groups were doing to us.  

If we could pull Reagan out of the group and put him in the White House, we can do it again.  It's going to take a well grounded charismatic who isn't afraid to rub some people the wrong way, but it can be done.

So far, nobody seems to want the job. 

[B Knotts]

Bingo! I supported George Bush because he picked Dick Cheney as his running mate. They tricked me into thinking they were serious about what they ran on.

Never again!

[servantboy777]

>>Between Rand Paul and Dick Cheney, I think I will go with Cheney.<<

Yea, ain’t it dandy how our liberty and freedoms have just gone poof?

Since 911, webs of cameras installed everywhere, LPR’s tracking millions of vehicles (owner’s movements), NSA spying on C/card records, phone and internet. DHS granting billions to militarize local law enforcment circumventing Posse Comitatus, thousands of surveillance drones over America, Law enforcement safety checkpoints, no knock entry by LEO’s, IRS used as a politcal tool, TSA groping nuns, kids and elderly, biometric databases with facial recognition capabilities on U.S. soil.

Yea, rather have Cheney over Rand Paul for sure.

[metmom]

They aren't worried about security, the Boston bombers were not stopped with all the crazy invasive 'security measures' that are in place.

And to make matters worse, the Russians even warned us about those two.

[soycd]

Start profiling and take out the muslim islam filth and stop manufacturing McVeigh types and we’ll talk...until then STFU.