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Dick Cheney: Rand Paul is wrong on government surveillance
Washington Post ^ | June 16 2013 | Sean Sullivan

Posted on 07/19/2013 11:10:19 PM PDT by WilliamIII

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To: meadsjn

Oh, yeah, Dick Cheney, the guy who gave blessings to Judge Greer’s killing of Schiavo... What a hero.

The lithmus test is that Cheney would be against YOU AND I getting a lawyer and drones of our own to supervise our government and his own shenanigans in his tower of cushy empire chicken hawk GOPe RINOs.


51 posted on 07/20/2013 3:48:38 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: doc1019

THe problem is that the like of Dick Cheney make the like of RAnd needed as a lawyers.

Whenever a government is in so much encroaching that people feel the need to have a lawyer 24 7 to protect their right each time a cop is around, we got a problem.

IT should not be that way, but now it is that we have to find the muster to supervise our own government back.

This is no go and should be somewhat of a test of how far this war has gone crazy and mismanaged because of cowardice in the face of Islam.


52 posted on 07/20/2013 3:52:04 AM PDT by JudgemAll (Democrats Fed. job-security Whorocracy & hate:hypocrites must be gay like us or be tested/crucified)
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To: WilliamIII
Dick Cheney is just covering his daughter's ass, because he went after Rand Paul when Paul was running for senator and now Paul is coming after Liz.

Father protecting daughter, gonna get messy.

53 posted on 07/20/2013 3:54:05 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Nuke the terrorist savages, start today.)
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To: WilliamIII
I constantly interpret the ruling class, both past and present rulers by their words supporting the current rulers in our nation. When facts are known, and it is known the rulers in the present are spying on the people and the past rulers support those current ruler spying on the people one can form an opinion of both past and current rulers support spying on the people (all the people) by their support of the current rulers spying. It would appear (imho) rulers prefer knowing what the people are doing over granting freedom to the people to pursue liberties. In a sane world the people would have the freedom to spy on their leaders. In an insane world the rulers spy on the people. Think Nazi Germany.
54 posted on 07/20/2013 4:10:13 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: sickoflibs

“However in this case Cheney is supporting Obama as a side effect.”

I respectfully disagree. They’re two sides of the same coin. Neo-conservatism and neo-liberalism aren’t all that different in practice. Both support essentially unlimited government.


55 posted on 07/20/2013 4:16:28 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Food, water, guns, ammo, useful skills, cash, and precious metals.)
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To: meadsjn

I’ve been saying for years now that Bush’s ROP nonsense set us back 25 years in appropriately dealing with Islam.


56 posted on 07/20/2013 4:27:44 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: WilliamIII; P-Marlowe

Dick Cheney is wrong and Rand Paul is right.

Paul believes in the Constitution’s provision that a warrant be issued specifically detailing the wwwwwh’s of a search.

I see the Constitution as our guiding document, and if Cheney or anyone wants it changed, then they are free to pursue and amendment. The “Fisa” court is an attempt to amend the constitution by legislative vote IF it’s given ANY authority to short-circuit that constitutional requirement.

We don’t have secret courts issuing secret, rushed warrants in the Constitution. Anything in the Bill of Rights should be held to a HIGHER standard and not to a lower one.

Some say this makes us vulnerable to terrorists. I disagree. If they’ve only found a terrorist plan by painstaking research or field work, then the extra few days to do this properly is no impediment.

If they have discovered an act to be carried out against the US, then the President is the Commander in Chief, and he has the authority to make immediate strikes to protect our security.


57 posted on 07/20/2013 4:36:16 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: doc1019

At one time I thought Cheney actually stood for Free America, I now know I was 100% wrong! Cheney was the worst sort to be near the seat of power when the bona-fide dimwit GWB was Prez. Cheny sat in the DC and ordered the US Air defense to stand down. Cheney promoted the ill conceived ME takeover, Cheney/Bush don’t give a damn about this country as they refused to deal w/ the border and prosecuted Border Patrol Agents that tried to do their jobs! Don’t get me started on their precious ROP!


58 posted on 07/20/2013 4:40:33 AM PDT by iopscusa (El Vaquero. (SC Lowcountry Cowboy))
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To: WilliamIII

FU cheney! This guy should be tried for war crimes and treason.


59 posted on 07/20/2013 4:44:11 AM PDT by gotribe (Vladimir Putin is MY President)
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To: Rum Tum Tugger

Dick Cheney, GHWB, and GWB were all Ford supporters in 1976; GHWB had to keep quiet as he was in a diplomatic assignment in China at the time. Ford said his best contribution to the American people was John Paul Stevens.


60 posted on 07/20/2013 4:54:14 AM PDT by Theodore R. ("Hey, except for six women in Sanford, FL, the American people must all be crazy out there!")
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To: doc1019

Between Rand Paul and Dick Cheney, I think I will go with Rand Paul.

We have lost and maimed enough heroes for WHAT? We have been meddling in countries that have no U.S. national security interest. Protect Israel, to hell with the rest of them. Bombs not boots, when necessary.


61 posted on 07/20/2013 4:59:45 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: Sherman Logan; sickoflibs
Lets see, we got secret judges making secret decisions and secret enforcement and only one side gets to present their case to them and 99% they win against no opposition. And under Obama.

To be fair, these decisions are for the approximate equivalent of search warrants. I don't recall the target of a proposed search warrant ever being given the opportunity to show why it should not be granted.
Search warrants have to be disclosed. They are limited in scope and duration. And if the police get a warrant to search my house they eventually have to leave it; they don't get to stand around watching just in case I later do something they don't like.

We have a procedure for issuing search warrants in this country, authorized under and subject to the Constitution. The fact that our existing process wasn't good enough for the government, and it needed a secret process that we didn't know about and couldn't access even if we did, tells us these aren't "the approximate equivalent of search warrants" at all.

I didn't have a lot of time for Rand Paul before, but you know a man by his enemies. Having the Cheney family among them means Paul is going up in my estimation.
62 posted on 07/20/2013 5:10:39 AM PDT by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: doc1019

I think I will stick with the 4th Amendment.


63 posted on 07/20/2013 5:12:12 AM PDT by unixfox
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To: Leaning Right

We already are. Our country is dying before our eyes.

Not sure if we will ever recover.


64 posted on 07/20/2013 5:14:00 AM PDT by NoKoolAidforMe (I'm clinging to my God and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: doc1019

Screw cheney, he supports globalism, gay marriage, and amnesty.


65 posted on 07/20/2013 5:14:33 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: WilliamIII

Of course it is important to know what a Nation’s “Enemies” are up to.

The key word here is “Enemies”.

Spy on America’s “Enemies” all you want.

The NSA, IRS, EPA, DOJ, TSA, HSA, CIA, and other Harassment and Surveillance has been targeting AMERICAN CITIZENS, and for exercising their 1st and 2nd Amendment Rights.


66 posted on 07/20/2013 5:14:40 AM PDT by left that other site (You Shall Know the Truth, and the Truth Shall Set You Free...John 8:32)
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To: highball

My point was simply that the issuance of warrants has never been subject to contention by the object of the warrant.

Not that these warrants are a good or constitutional idea.

The Fourth Amendment prohibits “general warrants” as issued under the Crown. These warrants bear an uncomfortable resemblance.


67 posted on 07/20/2013 5:15:25 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

“The Fourth Amendment prohibits “general warrants” as issued under the Crown. These warrants bear an uncomfortable resemblance.”

But its for your safety and the chilldruuun.


68 posted on 07/20/2013 5:18:34 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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69 posted on 07/20/2013 5:19:37 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (McCain or Romney would have been worse, if you're a dumb ass.)
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To: driftdiver

The problem for the government here is the difference between intelligence gathering and criminal investigation.

Intelligence gathering by definition requires looking at an enormous mass of material to determine which of it requires more careful observation. Look at the criticism of the government after 9/11 for not having prevented the attacks. The only way they could conceivably have done so is by separating the signal of the attackers plot out of a nearly infinite amount of background noise.

I suspect a major reason why the NSA is looking at “everything,” is political correctness. Somewhat similar to searching everybody by the TSA.

Can’t focus on the more likely dangers, that would be profiling. So they are forced to gather data on everybody if they want to have data on the real threats.

Not saying they’re right in doing so, just that this is the dynamic at work.


70 posted on 07/20/2013 5:26:06 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Leaning Right

Yeah, he’s king of the chickenhawks. Lieberman is Queen. Honorable mention goes to Frank Gaffney. He makes McCain look like a pacifist and he also got five deferments. And don’t forget Bolton.


71 posted on 07/20/2013 5:30:38 AM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (I remember when a President having an "enemies list" was a scandal. Now, they have a kill list.)
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To: WilliamIII

In protecting his daughter, Dick is overlooking the purpose of the spying. Perhaps had the Republicans been as willing as their counterparts to use their intelligence gathering to fix the news and the elections we wouldn’t have had the current government mess.

He who controls the information and the information providers has some latitude in how the world runs.


72 posted on 07/20/2013 5:34:26 AM PDT by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: doc1019
Between Rand Paul and Dick Cheney, I think I will go with Cheney.

You gotta be kidding me! Every one of the abuses & overreach by 0dumb0 were put in place by pandering dumb ass GW Bush and Dick Cheney. Ben Franklin described it accurately when he said those who sacrifice freedom for security, end up with neither. That's exactly where we are today. The NSA has not protected us from ANY terrorist threats or attacks. In fact they couldn't even protect us from the Boston Marathon bombers with all sorts of warnings posted about them.

You would rather go with NWO, CFR, pro-homo, pro-lesbian, pro-gay marriage, pro gubmint intrusion, pro-Islam "religion of peace", anti-TEA Party, anti-Christian, anti-conservative, Dick Cheney.

I would rather go with conservative Libertarian Rand Paul in a heart beat!

73 posted on 07/20/2013 5:40:28 AM PDT by rcrngroup
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To: WilliamIII
I really hate to have to do this but here goes.." Dick Cheney to the people of the US,

" We have to bug your granny's phone, your daughter's phone, your phone and your wife's phone...just in case you might be a terrorist.

Then, and only then, we will let you blow up Boston at your digression.

74 posted on 07/20/2013 5:46:34 AM PDT by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
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To: Earthdweller

discretion.. but I digress.


75 posted on 07/20/2013 5:48:01 AM PDT by Earthdweller (Harvard won the election again...so what's the problem.......? Embrace a ruler today.)
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To: sickoflibs
Cheney needs to find another hobby, he has done enough damage.

When GWBush made that sharp leftist turn after his reelection, Cheney went with him.

In for a penny, in for a pound.


76 posted on 07/20/2013 5:56:27 AM PDT by TomGuy (.)
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To: WilliamIII
Dick, you and Dubya had your chance to stamp out Islamism for good on 12 Sept 2001. You had the whole country with you. Only the tiniest left wing fringe would have objected.

And you muffed it. Completely. Whether it was incompetence, Saudi and Kuwaiti influence buying, or simply lack of willpower, you screwed the pooch, throwing thousands of American lives and trillions of dollars down the rathole.

So just shut up and go away.

77 posted on 07/20/2013 6:01:41 AM PDT by Notary Sojac (I call it messin' with the kid.)
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To: doc1019

I think I will go with the Constitution.

One of the problems with Cheney’s view is that it is somewhat hypocritical. The government is not doing much spying on the bad guys. All this is being used to control us. The preparations are against us. The people profiled are us. The people targeted for harassment are us.

And so on, ad nauseum.

Outside the country, the same government is supporting & funding terrorists. Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood. “Negotiations” with the Taliban. How long before Obozo starts funding the Taliban? Not as far fetched as one would think.


78 posted on 07/20/2013 6:05:02 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: Sherman Logan

Thats possible but I don’t think so. They are doing this because they can. They now have the technology and the (unconstitutional) authority to do this. They sit back and build a case that they might be able to find an enemy this way and of course it fits into Bam bams agenda.

Its how govts and people in positions of power have always functioned when they don’t have any controls.

BTW FU NSA


79 posted on 07/20/2013 6:11:34 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: WilliamIII

Yep, still sticking with Rand.


80 posted on 07/20/2013 6:12:36 AM PDT by arderkrag (An Unreconstructed Georgian, STANDING WITH RAND.)
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To: WilliamIII
He later added: “When you consider the possibility of somebody smuggling something like a nuclear device into the United States, it becomes very, very important to gather intelligence on your enemies and stop that attack before it ever gets launched.”

The problem for most of us is that the U. S. Government doesn't have 316 million enemies on U. S.  Soil.  The fact that it thinks it does, means it has become that crazy aunt locked in the attic talking to herself.  Forget about that nuclear device, because we all buy in on tracking the real terrorists.  We don't buy in on tracking the real U. S. Citizens, who now have more to fear from their own government, than from foreign threats

81 posted on 07/20/2013 6:21:24 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Zimmerman breaks Martin's nose/pounds his head on concrete? Does Martin's backers support Zimmerman?)
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To: nathanbedford

I too support cheney, always have loved the guy...but its one thing to address the terrorism, its another not to call out Islam or the unsecured border.

God help us.


82 posted on 07/20/2013 6:21:32 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Will Freepr combat)
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To: nathanbedford

I’m right there with you on that. I have always liked Cheney, but the guy misses the mark by a mile here.


83 posted on 07/20/2013 6:24:07 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Zimmerman breaks Martin's nose/pounds his head on concrete? Does Martin's backers support Zimmerman?)
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To: Leaning Right

The Vietnam War was not like WWII. Literally everyone was doing what they could to stay out of it. If you start condemning folks who avoided it, you won’t have many people left from that period that you can support.


84 posted on 07/20/2013 6:28:12 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Zimmerman breaks Martin's nose/pounds his head on concrete? Does Martin's backers support Zimmerman?)
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To: WilliamIII

Et tu, Cheney?

What is it with these GOPers that, if they can’t at least support those that they should consider closest to them, they just can’t seem to keep their damn mouths shut and so end up siding with our enemies?


85 posted on 07/20/2013 6:37:33 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: WilliamIII
Sorry, Dick, there is no probable cause to gather information on all Americans. That makes it unconstitutional.

If you want to try and make it unconstitutional by rewriting the 4th amendment and getting that ratified...knock yourself out.

But this:

“Two-thirds of the Congress wasn’t here on 9/11, or for that period immediately after when we got into this program,” Cheney said on “Fox News Sunday.” He later added: “When you consider the possibility of somebody smuggling something like a nuclear device into the United States, it becomes very, very important to gather intelligence on your enemies and stop that attack before it ever gets launched.”

Is just the old, "Trust me, you need to give up your freedom for security," nonsense all power mongers try to get past the people.

I was there on 911, Dick, and so were most Americans. We want to catch and kill the bad guys. We do not want to use the largest fishing expedition in history and make all Americans treated like criminals to do it.

That dog don't hunt in these parts, Dick.

Use the program specifically for those people you can get a probable cause and judge order/warrant based on. That will allow you to track and catch the bad guys and the people who may associate with them.

Otherwise, you are sounding more and more like the type of powermongers we are dedicated to fighting and to stopping. The temptation for abuse, as we have already seen, is simply far too great to unleash such a program on all Americans and their personal data and effects.

THE NSA AND PRISM

Former Director of NSA Intelligence reveals the full extent of PRISM capabilities. MUST SEE!

86 posted on 07/20/2013 6:38:56 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: BarnacleCenturion

Definitely a true disappointment.


87 posted on 07/20/2013 6:42:02 AM PDT by ReformationFan
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To: faucetman

Bombs not boots, when necessary.
*****************
hear hear


88 posted on 07/20/2013 6:44:31 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: WilliamIII

And let me also add to this post that this surveillance has nothing to do with security. It has everything to do with databasing as much information on each citizen as they possibly can.

I’m involved in healthcare and I see what is happening with “Meaningful Use.”

I knew that HIPAA had nothing to do with “patient privacy” as it was sold (Orwellian Newspeak) and everything to do with establishing the channels to have all of your healthcare information shared among dozens of federal bureaucracies.

You needed a Xanax for that cross-country flight? That’s an anti-anxiety prescription. Maybe you shouldn’t be allowed to purchase that firearm.

HIPAA set up the precedent to share that personal, private information. Socialist Medicine under this administration is establishing the actual databases to collect and disseminate that information.

“Meaningful Use” ensures that a large amount of personal data IS captured and that it is captured in such a format that multiple databases (from multiple agencies) can tap into it.

Wake up, people.

Just like the IRS scandal was allowed to be leaked in order to dry up funding and vocal support for conservatives in 2014, the NSA scandal was leaked to shut you up in terms of speaking out against an Orwellian state.

The unAffordable Care Act has nothing to do with affordability and nothing to do with care. It has everything to do with destroying all vestiges of private healthcare and putting the state in control of that and, through healthcare, through just about all aspects of your life.


89 posted on 07/20/2013 6:46:08 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: WilliamIII

I just can’t buy people like Bush/Cheney/McCain who profess such intense concern over “national security” to the point of this massive domestic NSA data-mining, yet have been happily complicit in leaving the borders so wide open for year after year.


90 posted on 07/20/2013 6:46:58 AM PDT by greene66
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To: doc1019

Seeing that Rand Paul is the only one who is actually standing up to the GOPE and the DNC, I think I’ll go with Rand Paul.


91 posted on 07/20/2013 6:47:12 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: NVDave

Well stated.


92 posted on 07/20/2013 6:48:16 AM PDT by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Prepare for survival.)
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To: meadsjn

Actually 9/12 is the time phraseology. We are still living in a 9/10 USA. Iv’e always believed we should have taken care of
things HERE first by expelling Muslims and illegals.
That WAS the moment of “moral clarity”.

Instead , they put the burden of less freedoms ON Americans.


93 posted on 07/20/2013 7:14:37 AM PDT by urtax$@work (The only kind of memorial is a Burning memorial !)
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To: BarnacleCenturion

Just because I prefer one person over another I’m a lib ... BS and I say again BS. I’m as conservative as it gets. I voted for Sarah Palin for crying out loud and am a lifetime member of the Tea Party ... waiting for the establishment a conservative third party. I’m a lib? BS


94 posted on 07/20/2013 7:50:09 AM PDT by doc1019 (Get our troops the hell out of the ME)
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To: Notary Sojac
Dick, you and Dubya had your chance to stamp out Islamism for good on 12 Sept 2001. You had the whole country with you.

So true. But more than the country, they had the whole civilized world with them.

A couple of months after 9/11, I was reading a magazine article written by an American who happened to be in Greece on 9/11. Greeks were going up to him and saying "we're all Americans now."

Many folks don't know this, but soon after 9/11 the Europeans invoked Article 5 of the NATO treaty, the attack-on-one-is-an-attack-all Article. NATO was ready to go all-in with us.

But Bush declined their help. That was incomprehensible, and almost criminally stupid.

95 posted on 07/20/2013 8:16:08 AM PDT by Leaning Right
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To: meadsjn

Excellent post !


96 posted on 07/20/2013 8:16:33 AM PDT by B4Ranch (AGENDA: Grinding America Down ----- http://vimeo.com/63749370)
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To: WilliamIII

Dick Cheney is wrong.


97 posted on 07/20/2013 8:43:32 AM PDT by First_Salute (May God save our democratic-republican government, from a government by judiciary.)
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To: doc1019

Actually, I was still on active duty way back when Dick was in the first Bush administration. I loved the guy. Now, no more. I have lost all respect I ever had for Dick. He has dropped off my radar. I would never support him if he did run for president back in the day. Feel how you might, I refuse to like him any more.


98 posted on 07/20/2013 10:58:08 AM PDT by RetiredArmy ("As in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of Man." The LORD said it would be like this.)
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To: doc1019
Between Rand Paul and Dick Cheney, I think I will go with Cheney.

Why not instead think for yourself and decide the issue based on the evidence?

99 posted on 07/20/2013 11:03:56 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: Sherman Logan
To be fair, these decisions are for the approximate equivalent of search warrants. I don't recall the target of a proposed search warrant ever being given the opportunity to show why it should not be granted.

A target of a search warrant is given the opportunity to show why a warrant should not be granted afterwards. That's the check to avoid unreasonable warrants.

Looks to me like no such check exits for what the NSA is doing.

100 posted on 07/20/2013 11:09:14 AM PDT by FreeReign
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