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I don't think you can honestly live down something like the Bay of Pigs. You endure it and move on. He was a goat on that subject. He deserved to be. He took the Truman approach to blame, and I thought that was the best thing to do.

I realize he wasn't in the trenches, but I did use that phrase meaning he was on duty in a battle zone and not somewhere behind a desk. He was hauled out and helped by some Seventh-Day Adventist tribes people. I was raised an SDA, so I remember reading about it. John and his older brother both served with destinction. Of course Jack didn't make it back. Pappy Joe had wanted him to be the President. Yes, John served with honor, and in an era where millions did, that was to be expected. I appreciate the fact though.

By the end of the Johnson years, we had in excess of 500,000 troops in Vietnam. Funny how quickly that became Nixon's fault. The media was just menacingly mean.

It seems to me that when you're in a high office, you put your worst side to rest for the duration. The office demands respect, but it also requires it from my perspective.

Thanks for the discussion.

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After the Bay of Pigs, and his mea culpa broadcast, JFK had a lot of people in the project disciplined and/or canned. A bit later, RFK found out about the continuing attempts to assassinate Castro — the CIA was contracting with the mob, which had lost its casinos and whorehouses in Cuba — and the efforts were ordered terminated.

And of course, barely a year went by and the US Navy was again around Cuba for the blockade to eject the Soviet missiles. The same friend was still in the Navy at that time, said he was expecting to reach his discharge when everyone was given a six month extension. Confronting the Soviets about those missiles was 100% necessary, but it also served as a rehab for JFK’s reputation.

During WWII Joe Jr was toasted at a family and friends gathering as “a future President of the United States” by his father. As a flyer serving out of England, he volunteered for a risky mission, which consisted of flying a plane loaded with high explosive into a terminal dive to destroy the German bunkers where the “London Guns” were under construction. The pilots were supposed to eject of course. This had been tried before this, and none of the attempts had succeeded. Asked by one of his buddies if he had insurance, he just grinned and said, “Kennedys don’t need insurance”. During a routine radio transmission, listeners back in England could hear a hissing noise in the background. Observers saw a blinding flash of light, and after the travel time the sound reached too; I’ve seen it described as “the most powerful non-nuclear explosion of all time”, but I’m pretty sure that is an exaggeration. Same result for him though.

When JFK got the news, he was in the Pacific; he told a buddy, “I can feel pappy’s eyes on me.” Joe Sr’s plan was 8 years of Jack, 8 years of Bobby, then 8 years of Teddy — and Fatso dumped that timetable when he refused to run in 1976. He was so pissed about Carter than he challenged him in 1980 and got has ass handed to him — how bad is that? Oh, I was outcampaigned by an incompetent bum who was being used as toilet paper by the Ayatollah.