Posted on 08/03/2013 10:55:04 AM PDT by Kid Shelleen
Ukrainians dressed in Nazi SS uniform trudge through trenches and fire model rifles in a reconstruction of a key battle against the Soviets during World War II. An Orthodox priest leads a ceremony for fallen soldiers of the Nazi unit, sprinkling his blessing over several men sporting swastikas who lower a coffin in a ritual reburial.
-snip-
More than 20 years since gaining independence from the Soviet Union, Ukraine remains painfully divided over the legacy of World War II and the actions of Ukrainian nationalist fighters, who are honored as heroes by some and condemned as traitors by others. Some of those fighters served under or cooperated with the Nazis, seeing a chance to overthrow the Soviet regime, while others fought both the Red Army and the Nazis.
(Excerpt) Read more at realclear.com ...
“If the Germans had been smart, and not treated the Ukrainians as terribly as the Soviets, they would have had millions of volunteers and workers and not had to waste so many resources on occupation of the Ukraine.”
After the collapse of the USSR they admitted that they had infiltrated saboteurs/snipers behind German lines to successfully provoke retribution against the Ukrainians by the Germans (to drive them apart).
“So which side were the good guys on?”
Eastern Europeans liked to say that neither was good, but one was worse (Stalin). The casualties of 1941 followed on the heels of the Soviet Katyn massacre; this actually helped rally many who might have remained neutral to fear the Soviets much more than they feared Nazism.
The legacy of the Nazis will always include the evil they did, and should also note that nobody had ever unified so much of Europe against a common enemy before.
A lot of Romanians and Italians fought & died for the Axis in Stalingrad. Both changed sides at the end of the war, but Italy was spared the Communist hell Romania (and most of eastern Europe) endured for the next 45 years.
“You’re right, Kozak, and if they’d been cunning as well as smart, they’d have put off trying to invade the Soviet Union until they’d solidified their grip on Western Europe and neutralized the English.”
Many people who take that view forget that in 1917 Russia surrendered to the Central Powers in WWI. War can be fought on 2 fronts (we did it in WWII), and if not for propaganda/yellow journalism the Central Powers would have won WWI in 1917. Russia surrendered, French troops were mutinying, Austria-Hungary had Italy beaten, and England was alone.
Exactly. Many Ukrainians first looked at the Nazis as liberators. The Nazis let them know rather quickly that this would not be the case.
If you were a Russian, Stalin was very bad, but Hitler was worse. Yet, it took Hitler proving it, to make the typical Russian a true believer.
Katin (and other Soviet atrocities) occurred before Hitler invaded those areas, thus it set a tone going forward in regard to the Soviets. That said, Hitler immediately went to work enslaving the entire populations of those lands, forcing the women into brothels, and exterminating certain elements altogether.
A very, very bad time to be in Eastern Europe.
Stalin knew many Russians preferred Hitler to him, so he went about a campaign of terror to force their loyalty. Katyn occurred when Hitler took western Poland and Stalin took eastern Poland.
It was a miserable time for eastern Europe; the fortunate ones in 1945 ended up of west of the line Stalin and Roosevelt drew between communism and relative freedom.
No doubt literally NO ONE in all of Russia knows what really happened in WWII..
The Russians have been brain washed since toddlers for a hundred years..
Probably no one remains that WANTS TO KNOW either..
Russians murdered more of their OWN people in WWII and before than they did anybody else..
A corrupt and murderous people the Russians..
Thr Russians and Chinese people have never known FREEDOM.. EVER..
Still today they are ruled by depots.. they know of no other way..
Still today they are ruled by depots.. they know of no other way.."
While true of China, there was an all too brief time when Russia, under its first democratically elected President Boris Yeltsen (first President of the Russian Federation, serving from 1991 to 1999.) knew the true meaning of freedom and sought to establish it within Russia after the fall of Communism.
When the Russian communists tried to overthrow the free, democratically elected government in October of 1993 and reestablish communist rule, President Boris Yeltsen stood tall, called out the army who sided with President Yeltsen against the "Supreme Soviet" (A remarkable feat given the fact that the army had been aligned with, and loyal to the "Supreme Soviet" for nearly 70 years!) and had them besiege the Russian White House and fire on the communist rebels who had barricaded themselves within. The coup was quenched after the White House was stormed. The shelling and subsequent retaking of the White House resulted in the deaths of 187 rebels within the White House and Democracy was temporarily reestablished.
In spite of President Yeltsen's personal faults, and political shortcomings he sought to do everything within his power to establish Democracy and freedom within post-Soviet Russia.
Sadly, his vision for a Democratic Russian Federation was thwarted for many reasons beyond his control. 70 years of unparalleled and whimsical death and banishment to Siberia and other "camps" at the hands of your own government, government oppression, fear of your neighbor and fear of your own family, corruption permeating every level of society and "Soviet Socialist control" and enslavement to "the state" that had been systematically engrained within the masses for generations is a hard thing to change. Coupled with that, you had a cadre of committed Soviet Socialists who had just changed their uniforms for business suits and called themselves "democrats" who were and are opposed to Democracy within Russia doing everything within their power to subvert Democracy.
The vision died and the time past on December 31, 1999 when President Yeltsin surprisingly announced his resignation, leaving the presidency in the hands of then-Prime Minister Vladimir Putin (former head of the KGB) who was his chosen successor.
>>>>While true of China, there was an all too brief time when Russia, under its first democratically elected President Boris Yeltsen (first President of the Russian Federation, serving from 1991 to 1999.) knew the true meaning of freedom and sought to establish it within Russia after the fall of Communism.
When the Russian communists tried to overthrow the free, democratically elected government in October of 1993 and reestablish communist rule, President Boris Yeltsen stood tall, called out the army who sided with President Yeltsen against the “Supreme Soviet” (A remarkable feat given the fact that the army had been aligned with, and loyal to the “Supreme Soviet” for nearly 70 years!) and had them besiege the Russian White House and fire on the communist rebels who had barricaded themselves within. The coup was quenched after the White House was stormed. The shelling and subsequent retaking of the White House resulted in the deaths of 187 rebels within the White House and Democracy was temporarily reestablished.
In spite of President Yeltsen’s personal faults, and political shortcomings he sought to do everything within his power to establish Democracy and freedom within post-Soviet Russia.<<<<
Yeltsin is a very poor example of libertarian to say the least.
In terms of rule of law and some freedoms his regime was a devolution comparing to late Soviet period in the 1980s.
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